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Old 18.06.2012, 11:08
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The canton of Vaud has voted in favour of allowing assisted suicide to take place in nursing homes, making it the first formal Swiss law on the subject.

Read the full article: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide
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Old 18.06.2012, 11:39
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

Let's hope this will soon spread to the rest of Romandie and then Switzerland - although it will be an uphill struggle in the Catholic C/Kantons.

The OAP home where my mother was (one of the original Exit members) has a Charter specifically forbidding Exit to help any of the pensioners who are Exit members and request help. I have volunteered my home to Exit for any of the residents finding themselves unable to choose the day of release/departure due to that stupid Charter. I was going to help my mother (she had been asking for help for 10 years, blind, wheel-chair bound, totally dependent and in pain) - when we moved here- but bless her, she died 3 weeks before we arrived.
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Old 18.06.2012, 12:06
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Let's hope this will soon spread to the rest of Romandie and then Switzerland - although it will be an uphill struggle in the Catholic C/Kantons.
Many Catholics in my area think it's a fabulous idea.
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Old 18.06.2012, 12:30
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

Great news Olygirl- but perhaps they are still in a minority in many areas.
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Old 18.06.2012, 21:23
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Many Catholics in my area think it's a fabulous idea.
I am a Protestant but I think is is NOT a fabulous idea. Refer to the Bible.
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Old 18.06.2012, 21:31
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

God does not like people who judge or overuse groans. It makes him sad to see one of his children try to force beliefs on another.
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Old 19.06.2012, 08:20
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

Quote from the Wiki article History of Suicide:

"In general, the pagan world, both Roman and Greek, had a relaxed attitude towards the whole concept of suicide, a practice that was only outlawed with the advent of the Christians, who condemned it at the Council of Arles in 452 as the work of the Devil. In the Middle Ages, the Church had drawn-out discussions on the edge where the search for martyrdom was suicidal, as in the case of martyrs of Córdoba. Despite these disputes and occasional official rulings, Catholic doctrine was not entirely settled on the subject of suicide until the later 17th century. For instance, John Donne's Thoughts on Emergent Occasions is interpreted by some as a long argument in favor of suicide as divinely appointed opportunity."

It's clear that the taboo against suicide comes from the early Church's desire to be different from the other religions of the time and has since become enshrined as law in many places around the world due to the Church's influence. But that is no reason to cling to these laws nowadays.

I feel for you Odile regarding your mother's situation and am glad I'm living in a country that will allow me to make the choice if it ever comes to that. I am agnostic so claim no knowledge of God, if he/she/they exist, but to prolong a human life regardless of the "quality" of that life is, to me, a crime and shouldn't be allowed. For me it is a personal choice; if you're religious and feel it is taboo then that is fine, but if I feel differently why should the law forbid it.

The Swiss seem to have worked out a good method to make sure people do really want to do this. No decision is taken lightly or quickly, time is taken to make absolutely sure there is no coercion and IS the decision of the person involved. I hope this law is eventually extended to other cantons.

Argent, there are several instances of suicide in the Bible (along with murders of course), Samson being the most famous.
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Old 19.06.2012, 09:10
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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I am a Protestant but I think is is NOT a fabulous idea. Refer to the Bible.
And where exactly does it say in the Bible that we should allow people who have zero quality of life to suffer longer?
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Old 19.06.2012, 09:35
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

I do not agree with suicide but argent...come on...get real. Like one of the members said...not everyone on this forum believes in God and there will be some that believe in God and would accept suicide under certain circumstances. Stop groaning...stop bullying...stop forcing your beliefs by groaning and, generally speaking, a bad attitude. Nobody has a problem with what you believe in but with your crusade style of arguing. Respect the others and use some other teachings from the Bible that could be actually useful. Remove your unnecessary groans, share you beliefs and respect people no matter what...
Just saying...
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Old 19.06.2012, 09:40
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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I do not agree with suicide but argent...come on...get real. Like one of the members said...not everyone on this forum believes in God and there will be some that believe in God and would accept suicide under certain circumstances. Stop groaning...stop bullying...stop forcing your beliefs by groaning and, generally speaking, a bad attitude. Nobody has a problem with what you believe in but with your crusade style of arguing. Respect the others and use some other teachings from the Bible that could be actually useful. Remove your unnecessary groans, share you beliefs and respect people no matter what...
Just saying...
When was I bullying you or expressing bad attitude, can you give me any samples?
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Old 19.06.2012, 09:42
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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When was I bullying you or expressing bad attitude, can you give me any samples?
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Old 19.06.2012, 09:47
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

The law against assisted suicide in Canada has just been judge anti-constitutional by the supreme court. I trully hope we will come to where CH is n this matter.

My grand father suffered badly from Parkinson's disease. It was horrible to see him like this and for him to have all his head and losing basic fonction was humiliating. The man was a strong personage and he couldn't bare the pain anymore.

When he had enough, he found the help in his doctor. I hope I'll have someone too who will help me finish it with dignity if I find myself in a painful end.
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Old 19.06.2012, 10:03
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

I think this is a great idea, and is *exactly* the sort of thing humanity should be doing, and should have been doing a long time ago. Personally, I'm hoping this is universally adopted through the world, and isn't derailled by petty religious dogma.

Afterall, we see fit to put down our pets when their life is in terminal decline or quality of life has dropped to unacceptable levels, yet we don't extend the same compasion to ourselves? The irony being that our pets can't (verbally) communicate their wishes, whereas a human being can communicate their rational decision about how and when to die.
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Old 19.06.2012, 10:30
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

The answers to all one's questions: Cruising with God

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Old 19.06.2012, 10:37
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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I am a Protestant but I think is is NOT a fabulous idea. Refer to the Bible.
According to your profile you live in Valais, so the Vaud law doesn't concern you.
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Old 19.06.2012, 10:50
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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I am a Protestant but I think is is NOT a fabulous idea. Refer to the Bible.
The bible is only a very rough reference guide for those who are lost and can't find their way and need a prop.

Just because someone once wrote something down, that was then repeated and then translated, doesn't make it wholly true.

It is fast becoming out-dated to to the point of obsolete due to over- and mis-interpretation of religious fools and bigots.

In time it is slowly becoming a work of fiction and less of fact - but still a few interesting nuggets to be gleamed, and some good moralistic stories .... much like Aesop's Fables.

Remember .... all that glistens, is not silver.
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Old 19.06.2012, 10:52
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Refer to the Bible.

Which bit shall i refer to?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is a fun read............


cheers
SC
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Old 19.06.2012, 11:12
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

Assisted death kind of happens anyway wherever there is modern palliative care. The palliative care my father was given was a cocktail of drugs for heavy pain relief, stuff to stop him being sick, stuff to keep his fluid levels down, etc. I was surprised how fast the end came once they started this final treatment and the nurse in charge said that on such a weakened body, the treatment to curb the suffering actually brings the end a lot quicker.

The bible was written at a time when people didn't suffer for long if they had some kind of debilitating illness which was at that time untreatable. Nowadays we can artificially keep people alive throughout a painful and undignified condition which should have killed them perhaps within a maximum of a couple of years of its onset but keeps them lingering for decades. Sufferers should have a right to choose a dignified end and I applaud Vaud for its progression in this way.
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Old 19.06.2012, 11:24
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Quote from the Wiki article History of Suicide:

"In general, the pagan world, both Roman and Greek, had a relaxed attitude towards the whole concept of suicide, a practice that was only outlawed with the advent of the Christians, who condemned it at the Council of Arles in 452 as the work of the Devil. In the Middle Ages, the Church had drawn-out discussions on the edge where the search for martyrdom was suicidal, as in the case of martyrs of Córdoba. Despite these disputes and occasional official rulings, Catholic doctrine was not entirely settled on the subject of suicide until the later 17th century. For instance, John Donne's Thoughts on Emergent Occasions is interpreted by some as a long argument in favor of suicide as divinely appointed opportunity."

It's clear that the taboo against suicide comes from the early Church's desire to be different from the other religions of the time and has since become enshrined as law in many places around the world due to the Church's influence. But that is no reason to cling to these laws nowadays.

I feel for you Odile regarding your mother's situation and am glad I'm living in a country that will allow me to make the choice if it ever comes to that. I am agnostic so claim no knowledge of God, if he/she/they exist, but to prolong a human life regardless of the "quality" of that life is, to me, a crime and shouldn't be allowed. For me it is a personal choice; if you're religious and feel it is taboo then that is fine, but if I feel differently why should the law forbid it.

The Swiss seem to have worked out a good method to make sure people do really want to do this. No decision is taken lightly or quickly, time is taken to make absolutely sure there is no coercion and IS the decision of the person involved. I hope this law is eventually extended to other cantons.

Argent, there are several instances of suicide in the Bible (along with murders of course), Samson being the most famous.
Quote:
Assisted death kind of happens anyway wherever there is modern palliative care. The palliative care my father was given was a cocktail of drugs for heavy pain relief, stuff to stop him being sick, stuff to keep his fluid levels down, etc. I was surprised how fast the end came once they started this final treatment and the nurse in charge said that on such a weakened body, the treatment to curb the suffering actually brings the end a lot quicker.

The bible was written at a time when people didn't suffer for long if they had some kind of debilitating illness which was at that time untreatable. Nowadays we can artificially keep people alive throughout a painful and undignified condition which should have killed them perhaps within a maximum of a couple of years of its onset but keeps them lingering for decades. Sufferers should have a right to choose a dignified end and I applaud Vaud for its progression in this way.
Sadly Sandgrounder, in the UK since the terrible Dr Shipman case, GPs supporting terminal patients at home have been much more reluctant to give larger doses of morphine, etc, in terminal cases (as was always the case for a very long time) as coroners have been much more careful in assessing the factors hastening death - for fear of being found 'guilty' or sued by the family. Tragic.
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Old 19.06.2012, 11:28
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Sadly Sandgrounder, in the UK since the terrible Dr Shipman case, doctors have been much more reluctant to give larger doses of morphine, etc, in terminal cases, as coroners have been much more careful in assessing the factors hastening death. Tragic.
In my dad's case (in a UK hospital), in the last 6 or so hours of life he was on a pump which administered the drugs automatically. It seemed pretty standard practice and I'm glad they did it. If they had held off on the morphine it may have prolonged his life, what, another 3, 4 or 5 hours but he would have been in unspeakable agony.
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