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  #61  
Old 09.07.2012, 10:29
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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I haven't read one post where anyone is condoning prostitution at 16. What I have seen are some posts questioning the practicalities of implementing of such a law and the fact that it doesn't actually stop the problem. Certain members have then responded to those comments putting a twist on it that the poster must mean they are fully in agreement with paid-for sex with a 16 year old.

It's easy for some to hide behind sensationalistic and emotive outbursts that drown out any sensible discussion.

My comment relates to an earlier thread on the same subject, where some people clearly stated they thought 16 was appropriate age for prostitution
I'd also agree that 18 is too young too - but as it is 'adult' age, there is clearly a difference.
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  #62  
Old 09.07.2012, 10:47
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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My comment relates to an earlier thread on the same subject, where some people clearly stated they thought 16 was appropriate age for prostitution
I'd also agree that 18 is too young too - but as it is 'adult' age, there is clearly a difference.
I doubt people were in support of it outright, what I remember from previous threads is similar to what we see here, not support but legitimate questioning of how enforceable a discrepancy between age of consent and legal age for prostitution is. Of course, that always turns into "What what whaaaaaaaaaaaat? You think there are should be 16 year old prostitutes?!?!?" and any chance of a logical discussion gets tossed out the window.

I agree with the law, but only out of hope that it will do good. Unfortunately, one only needs a cursory knowledge of the legal system (age of consent being different) and the complexity of human beings (who is more mature at 17 or 19, who are we to judge?) that the logical part of me accepts that its effect will be mostly a symbolic one. I wish solving the prostitution problem was as simple as making it off-limits for the first two years of consent. And saying that there is a "clear" difference because 18 is an "adult" age (as if the faery of magic adulthood makes it so) just goes further to show how you're not willing to deal with the complexity of the situation and ask the difficult questions about the matter of prostitution at large. How far do pieces of paper and laws truly go in protecting these women? Being vehemently against it at 16 and 17 is an easy win for those looking to satisfy their self-righteous indignation, I guess. I only wish the larger moral dilemma was that simple.
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  #63  
Old 09.07.2012, 17:38
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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...What I have seen are some posts questioning the practicalities of implementing of such a law and the fact that it doesn't actually stop the problem...
if the law makes a 16 year old to think twice about doing it because she knows it is illegal then it isn't "worth it" and the Johns know that it is illegal they will also think twice, definitely a win-win situation for the children, and it will of course a very strong message to the society.

In the long term it will of course have an impact but this alone will not completely solve the problem, but you don't gain anything by having it legal.

I know that if you want to work as a porn actress in Switzerland your parents have to sign a paper, yeah I know, one of the most bizarre thing I have ever heard of, do anyone knows if it is the same with prostitution?
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Old 09.07.2012, 17:40
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

those against the ban, is it due to:

A.) 16 years old children should have the right to prostitute themselves

OR

B.) The Johns should have the right to have sex for money with children?
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  #65  
Old 09.07.2012, 17:44
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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those against the ban, is it due to:

A.) 16 years old children should have the right to prostitute themselves

OR

B.) The Johns should have the right to have sex for money with children?
or C) Look for an alternative that might be more effective?

Making your posts as emotive and inflammatory as possible won't really gain you support, you know. Effectively you are trying to paint people who are discussing the merits/efficacy of the ban as pro-child abuse just to make headway with your own argument.

It's already been established that outright banning 16 year old prostitutes is not water tight as it sends it to a more murky base of the underworld.

For the record, nobody on here is in agreement with "Johns" having sex with children.

Now, can we move on and discuss this a bit more subjectively and without all the theatrics?
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Old 09.07.2012, 18:15
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

Thread over, everybody should read Russkov's posts and shut up. Myself included.
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  #67  
Old 09.07.2012, 18:25
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

'Theatrics'??? I can assure you if one of my daughters was prostituting themselves at 16 - 'theatrics' would not have been the word of choice. How can prostitution at the age of 16 NOT lead to strong feelings of despair?
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Old 09.07.2012, 18:57
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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'Theatrics'??? I can assure you if one of my daughters was prostituting themselves at 16 - 'theatrics' would not have been the word of choice. How can prostitution at the age of 16 NOT lead to strong feelings of despair?
Yes, but (and my post was directed at Osueco's comments) "strong feelings of despair" often don't make a good base for a constructive argument, do they? Can you imagine politicians running about wringing their hands accusing each other of being in favour of child abuse just because one of them wants to discuss the current policy to make it more effective?

I think the one thing that you and Osueco fail to realise is that nobody on this thread (and I'm not referring to other threads that you may or may not have read) is actually condoning 16 year olds prostituting themselves. Instead we get hysterical and emotive responses at each attempt to discuss it which is effectively wrecking the thread and any meaningful input.

It's now has descended into Daily Mail style hysteria so until it gets back on an even keel I'm out. Odile, I have to say I'm pretty surprised at your input because I normally have you pegged as someone who manages to keep hysteria and over-emotion off your posts.

Last edited by Sandgrounder; 09.07.2012 at 19:09.
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Old 09.07.2012, 20:29
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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I know that if you want to work as a porn actress in Switzerland your parents have to sign a paper, yeah I know, one of the most bizarre thing I have ever heard of, do anyone knows if it is the same with prostitution?
I believe it is. Makes me wonders what sort of parents would sign such a document.
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  #70  
Old 09.07.2012, 21:24
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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or C) Look for an alternative that might be more effective?

Making your posts as emotive and inflammatory as possible won't really gain you support, you know. Effectively you are trying to paint people who are discussing the merits/efficacy of the ban as pro-child abuse just to make headway with your own argument.

It's already been established that outright banning 16 year old prostitutes is not water tight as it sends it to a more murky base of the underworld.

For the record, nobody on here is in agreement with "Johns" having sex with children.

Now, can we move on and discuss this a bit more subjectively and without all the theatrics?
It's not my "crusade" you know, I am just stating facts...

and so far nobody has stated any valid reason why there should not be a ban..e.g. it won't drive it to the underworld in Switzerland because it's already legal profession...we should protect our children, don't let them go whoring on the streets...

so what is the alternative, let me hear...
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  #71  
Old 09.07.2012, 21:34
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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Yes, but (and my post was directed at Osueco's comments) "strong feelings of despair" often don't make a good base for a constructive argument, do they? Can you imagine politicians running about wringing their hands accusing each other of being in favour of child abuse just because one of them wants to discuss the current policy to make it more effective?

I think the one thing that you and Osueco fail to realise is that nobody on this thread (and I'm not referring to other threads that you may or may not have read) is actually condoning 16 year olds prostituting themselves. Instead we get hysterical and emotive responses at each attempt to discuss it which is effectively wrecking the thread and any meaningful input.

It's now has descended into Daily Mail style hysteria so until it gets back on an even keel I'm out. Odile, I have to say I'm pretty surprised at your input because I normally have you pegged as someone who manages to keep hysteria and over-emotion off your posts.
Well it's an emotional subject what do you expect?

Nobody on this forum is an expert regarding what laws are efficient or not, we have no idea what will happen if child prostitution is banned in Switzerland, I do believe that's one of the thing that you start with and take it from there, there is no magic formula, but a ban is signalling that this country do not accept child prostitution....

The whole prostitution business is damn ugly, and it should not be the start of a child's way into the adulthood...
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Old 09.07.2012, 21:38
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

Not easy to keep emotions (not hysteria imho) out of discussing child abuse - which is what it is. As said, in a previous thread on the subject some did try to justify prostitution being legal at 16, quite clearly. Do you have teenage daughters Sandgrounder? Mine are both in their late 40s - but I can remember them aged 16 as it was yesterday. Being a 16 year old can be hard enough!

Last edited by Odile; 09.07.2012 at 22:20.
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Old 09.07.2012, 22:15
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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Well it's an emotional subject what do you expect?

Nobody on this forum is an expert regarding what laws are efficient or not, we have no idea what will happen if child prostitution is banned in Switzerland, I do believe that's one of the thing that you start with and take it from there, there is no magic formula, but a ban is signalling that this country do not accept child prostitution....

The whole prostitution business is damn ugly, and it should not be the start of a child's way into the adulthood...
Given that the point of the thread was to link to a story stating Switzerland has actually really banned prostitution for under 18s and given that nobody on this particular thread is condoning 16 year old prostitutes, it does make me wonder exactly why you are so hysterical about the whole thing.

I think the point of the discussion was to explore whether an outright ban is actually effective given that in other countries it hasn't actually solved the problem.

If the ban is getting it partially right and is so far only the best solution of any given alternative then so be it. I'm just a little surprised that people on here seem to think that once something has become illegal it stops it 100%. I know I can be a bit naive but even I'm not that green.

I'd rather embrace the reality of it and try to fix it from there than be stuck in some kind of delusion that if something's been banned it stops it 100% but each to their own.

Quote:
Not easy to keep emotions (not hysteria imho) out of discussing child abuse - which is what it is. As said, in a previous thread on the subject some did try to justify prostitution being legal at 16, quite clearly.
Wouldn't it be better to post on that particular thread, though?
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Old 09.07.2012, 22:21
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

I have (message too short).
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  #75  
Old 09.07.2012, 23:08
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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It's not my "crusade" you know, I am just stating facts...

and so far nobody has stated any valid reason why there should not be a ban..e.g. it won't drive it to the underworld in Switzerland because it's already legal profession...we should protect our children, don't let them go whoring on the streets...

so what is the alternative, let me hear...
The problem is drawing the line between what constitutes consensual sex, and prostitution.

Tom
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Old 09.07.2012, 23:44
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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I meant, nobody is calling a 16 year old prostitute a "child prostitute"...although they are children.
16 to 20 years olds are teenagers, but children they according to the law are NOT. People up from 16 years of age can sign contracts, etc etc. Sure, it goes step by step. With 16 plus you can purchase beer and wine, with 18 plus spirits and you can drive cars and you can vote, with 20 you are regarded as "grown up".

Alright, but also hypocrites do not have eternal life
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  #77  
Old 10.07.2012, 00:47
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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Given that the point of the thread was to link to a story stating Switzerland has actually really banned prostitution for under 18s and given that nobody on this particular thread is condoning 16 year old prostitutes, it does make me wonder exactly why you are so hysterical about the whole thing.

I think the point of the discussion was to explore whether an outright ban is actually effective given that in other countries it hasn't actually solved the problem.

If the ban is getting it partially right and is so far only the best solution of any given alternative then so be it. I'm just a little surprised that people on here seem to think that once something has become illegal it stops it 100%. I know I can be a bit naive but even I'm not that green.

I'd rather embrace the reality of it and try to fix it from there than be stuck in some kind of delusion that if something's been banned it stops it 100% but each to their own.



Wouldn't it be better to post on that particular thread, though?
I have written many times that i dont believe that this will solve the problem 100%...and I dont believe nobody thinks so, I dont know where you got that idea from, but the first "easy" thing to do...
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Old 10.07.2012, 00:52
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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16 to 20 years olds are teenagers, but children they according to the law are NOT. People up from 16 years of age can sign contracts, etc etc. Sure, it goes step by step. With 16 plus you can purchase beer and wine, with 18 plus spirits and you can drive cars and you can vote, with 20 you are regarded as "grown up".

Alright, but also hypocrites do not have eternal life
Actually the ages 13...19 are teenagers
In switzerland 18 is the age of majority, below 18 they are children, anyway i dont understand your reasoning... what do you want to say, what do child prostitution has to do with driving a car or buy beer?
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  #79  
Old 10.07.2012, 00:56
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

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The problem is drawing the line between what constitutes consensual sex, and prostitution.

Tom
Nobody said that it would be easy

There is always grey areas, and there will always be in all kind of illegal activities, I see the ban in a more pro-active way...
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Old 10.07.2012, 07:58
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Re: Swiss outlaw underage prostitution

No ban:

A man can have sex and pay for it from a 16 years old teenager.
It is legal.

With a ban:

A man may have sex and pay for it from a 16 years old teenager.
It is illegal and he would be prosecuted.

It will stop some doing it, it won't stop some doing it.

I still think the ban would do a difference in the buyers mind, somehow. But I also believe it wont change anything on the sex traffiquing.
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