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  #121  
Old 12.07.2012, 00:38
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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Mocking a dead person. Hope same is done for you,
Although the above is not directed at me as I did not mock anyone but feel free to mock me when I am alive or dead. Actually when I die you can mock me 100 times more, see if I care

No prayers for me or my non existent soul either. Thank you very much.
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  #122  
Old 12.07.2012, 01:03
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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Loving community! Mocking a dead person. Hope same is done for you, is this a generalization of all US tourists, or just dead ones? This soul was not dumb, nor are we clever. Common sense? What is up with this community? Some one died, it is a tragedy, and we should mourn her and send prayers to her loved ones, I will.
While I can understand your feelings, bitterness cannot be the way. You are free to regard certain jokes as unpleasant, disgraceful and of bad taste. But to wish somebody a bad fate just for that goes too far.

Second of all, that all others were unhurt shows that they were aware of the problem and reacted correctly. What went wrong in case of the poor girl (slipped, panicked, etc) I do not know, but the investigation will show

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I have so much material from living here from Brits who hate Americans as a writer that it has been fantastic. What you all don't know is that the commonwealth has the lockdown on what we call drunks, hooligans, and racists! We also never call people c*nts or casually make racist, anti-semetic remarks or jokes about dead people killed by trains. I am anticipating a flurry but will assert that I am an American who speaks several languages who has lived in several countries and I was called "PC" by my British co workers who were just stodgy, old (dethroned) colonialist racist, sexist, anti-semetic cold hearted meanies. UK is an island and Europe is where I hail, but would never live in London, and surround myself with International open minded, open hearted folk here.
-
You as a US-American should not generalize about your own nation. I mean, compare people in New York City with people in Longview/Gladewater in Texas and you will get what I mean. On one side New Yorkers, used to as many trains as Europeans or Japanese, and on the other side Texans for whom trains are rather some exotic variety !
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  #123  
Old 12.07.2012, 01:20
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

I am a New Yorker by origin, didn't get me any less American bashing at work. "Too far" would be the jokes I highlighted. Two close deaths by trains made train death jokes unpalatable to me But I'm not bitter, not interested in this anymore. Prayers for those suffering.
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While I can understand your feelings, bitterness cannot be the way. You are free to regard certain jokes as unpleasant, disgraceful and of bad taste. But to wish somebody a bad fate just for that goes too far.

Second of all, that all others were unhurt shows that they were aware of the problem and reacted correctly. What went wrong in case of the poor girl (slipped, panicked, etc) I do not know, but the investigation will show


-
You as a US-American should not generalize about your own nation. I mean, compare people in New York City with people in Longview/Gladewater in Texas and you will get what I mean. On one side New Yorkers, used to as many trains as Europeans or Japanese, and on the other side Texans for whom trains are rather some exotic variety !
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  #124  
Old 12.07.2012, 01:31
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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Although the above is not directed at me as I did not mock anyone but feel free to mock me when I am alive or dead. Actually when I die you can mock me 100 times more, see if I care

No prayers for me or my non existent soul either. Thank you very much.
ok. just let me know when you die and i'll be sure to mock you a hundred times over!
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  #125  
Old 12.07.2012, 01:42
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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They were from Texas ? I visited Texas intensively 4 times (relatives there) and saw some tracks but almost no trains at all. THIS is the life experience of young Texans.
It s not only that. It^s also all those movies where people cross tunnels, by foot or by car, jump from the top of a truck onto another, make crazy car races and have a good laugh afterwards.
It is sad, people taking risks when there're no reasons...A sign might have helped though, who knows. I am actually surprised there are no signs here. There should be. C'mon, in certain places we get signs when the floor is wet..
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  #126  
Old 12.07.2012, 01:52
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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A sign might have helped though, who knows. I am actually surprised there are no signs here. There should be. C'mon, in certain places we get signs when the floor is wet..
There was a sign. It was a full-scale 3D representation of a train tunnel with tracks running through it. I'm pretty sure they knew it was a train tunnel. And that people shouldn't walk through train tunnels. A little sign of a man with a red line through it wouldn't have made much difference.

It was a stupid thing to do. However, that doesn't mean they were stupid. People who consider themselves smart sometimes still do stupid things, especially when young. I know I did. You look at a situation, ignore the rules, calculate your chances of surviving, and go for it. As it happens, they all survived, apart from a girl who tripped. They could have been crossing a road, saw a lorry, but knew that if they jogged across it'd be no problem (despite the red signal). So they all walk quickly or jog over, but someone trips, and then gets hit by the lorry. it happens. They took a risk and it didn't pay off. In hindsight it was a stupid thing to do. But the people doing it might not have been stupid. yeah, I've said that twice now in the same post
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  #127  
Old 12.07.2012, 02:16
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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It was a stupid thing to do. However, that doesn't mean they were stupid. People who consider themselves smart sometimes still do stupid things, especially when young. I know I did. You look at a situation, ignore the rules, calculate your chances of surviving, and go for it. As it happens, they all survived, apart from a girl who tripped. They could have been crossing a road, saw a lorry, but knew that if they jogged across it'd be no problem (despite the red signal). So they all walk quickly or jog over, but someone trips, and then gets hit by the lorry. it happens. They took a risk and it didn't pay off. In hindsight it was a stupid thing to do. But the people doing it might not have been stupid. yeah, I've said that twice now in the same post
You might say it as often as you wish, I totally agree with you. Only "enfants terribles"... Too bad it ended up with a tragedy..

(a sign could (or could not) have only reinforced their already existent knowledge)
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  #128  
Old 12.07.2012, 08:07
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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It s not only that. It^s also all those movies where people cross tunnels, by foot or by car, jump from the top of a truck onto another, make crazy car races and have a good laugh afterwards.
It is sad, people taking risks when there're no reasons...A sign might have helped though, who knows. I am actually surprised there are no signs here. There should be. C'mon, in certain places we get signs when the floor is wet..
Yes because you cant actually see that the floor is wet and there is a real danger to slip and break something. But when you see train tracks in front of you, you can hardly expect a train to sneak over from behind right?
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  #129  
Old 12.07.2012, 08:29
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

Ignoring the fact that your attitude is completely upside down...are you reading the posts with your monitor upside down? This is being sad and this is smiling. You groan at me for being sad about the situation? How did I mock cuz you lost me here...the guy clearly did not think.



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Loving community! Mocking a dead person. Hope same is done for you, is this a generalization of all US tourists, or just dead ones? This soul was not dumb, nor are we clever. Common sense? What is up with this community? Some one died, it is a tragedy, and we should mourn her and send prayers to her loved ones, I will.
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  #130  
Old 12.07.2012, 08:32
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

I just wonder at what point in the past the world turned into a kindergarten for adults.
You are told not to put your cat in a microwave, you are told not to drink hot coffee while driving, you are told not to eat to much junk food, you are told not to drink excessively, you are told not to dry blow your hair while taking a bath. And now you should be warned that trains might show up in a train tunnel. The next step will probably be a warning that you could eventually come across cars when stepping out of your door.
Up to now I thought we were give a brain to use it. I am not so sure anymore.
Accidents did always happen. They might have been caused by negligence, stupidity or just because somebody has been at the wrong place in the wrong moment. That's life and you can't and shouldn't protect people from everything.
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  #131  
Old 12.07.2012, 08:45
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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I just wonder at what point in the past the world turned into a kindergarten for adults.
You are told not to put your cat in a microwave, you are told not to drink hot coffee while driving, you are told not to eat to much junk food, you are told not to drink excessively, you are told not to dry blow your hair while taking a bath. And now you should be warned that trains might show up in a train tunnel. The next step will probably be a warning that you could eventually come across cars when stepping out of your door.
Up to now I thought we were give a brain to use it. I am not so sure anymore.
Accidents did always happen. They might have been caused by negligence, stupidity or just because somebody has been at the wrong place in the wrong moment. That's life and you can't and shouldn't protect people from everything.
Sadly I think a lot of these high profile cases are to blame where judges have ruled in favour of people who have been scalded by apple filling or hot coffee because there was nothing on the packaging to suggest that the contents were hot, or those who tragically lost cats in microwaves because there was no specific warning with an exhaustive list of what not to put in there.

Authorities and companies simply don't want to run the risk of anyone holding them liable so put up ridiculously stupid warnings which Joe Public is now relying on to keep him safe and is taking the thought process and risk assessment away from him.

I am NOT saying this is what happened in the train tunnel the other day by any means - just offering a possible suggestion for Simplon's comment.

This culture hasn't hit Switzerland yet hence the authorities are still under the impression that people can think for themselves here.
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  #132  
Old 12.07.2012, 08:56
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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I am NOT saying this is what happened in the train tunnel the other day by any means - just offering a possible suggestion for Simplon's comment.

This culture hasn't hit Switzerland yet hence the authorities are still under the impression that people can think for themselves here.
Just to make it clear, I don't blame the young people in question, I blame a society who gives up willingly any self-responsibility and is more and more depending on governmental advices/rules or silly leaflets made up by fear driven companies, instead of using the brain.
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  #133  
Old 12.07.2012, 09:37
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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Sadly I think a lot of these high profile cases are to blame where judges have ruled in favour of people who have been scalded by apple filling or hot coffee because there was nothing on the packaging to suggest that the contents were hot, or those who tragically lost cats in microwaves because there was no specific warning with an exhaustive list of what not to put in there.
To be fair, my recollection is that those kinds of cases were settled out of court to minimize publicity, and not that they were ruled in favor of the plaintiff (is that the right word?) because.

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Just to make it clear, I don't blame the young people in question, I blame a society who gives up willingly any self-responsibility and is more and more depending on governmental advices/rules or silly leaflets made up by fear driven companies, instead of using the brain.
Blame is irrelevant. If you don't make the right decisions in life, you're going to die. Well, you will anyway, but hopefully you can delay it a bit. Poor choices have consequence, as much as we might wish otherwise.
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  #134  
Old 12.07.2012, 09:50
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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To be fair, my recollection is that those kinds of cases were settled out of court to minimize publicity, and not that they were ruled in favor of the plaintiff (is that the right word?) because.
Yes, I think you are correct about this but I still think it is making companies go overboard on the warnings and risk minimisation to avoid these multi-million (insert currency) payouts so the net effect is the same.
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  #135  
Old 12.07.2012, 09:50
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

On a side note, we must also remember that the media culture -- and most journalism in general is made to shock and excite.

Case it point: the famous, old lady spills coffee on herself and sues McDonalds, is a favorite for people to cite as it seems the media has turned it into a ridiculous story, selling on points and ignoring other facts to make the story as sell-able as possible to the average idiot on the streets. It is always used as an example of american stupidity and the modern liability culture, however, I believe it's a better example of dumb people falling for these 'journalistic' traps without caring about any true facts.
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  #136  
Old 12.07.2012, 10:07
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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I have so much material from living here from Brits who hate Americans as a writer that it has been fantastic. What you all don't know is that the commonwealth has the lockdown on what we call drunks, hooligans, and racists! We also never call people c*nts or casually make racist, anti-semetic remarks or jokes about dead people killed by trains. I am anticipating a flurry but will assert that I am an American who speaks several languages who has lived in several countries and I was called "PC" by my British co workers who were just stodgy, old (dethroned) colonialist racist, sexist, anti-semetic cold hearted meanies. UK is an island and Europe is where I hail, but would never live in London, and surround myself with International open minded, open hearted folk here.
Frankly I'm astonished, nay appalled, that someone who calls themself a writer could produce such a post as this. You claim to speak several languages - is English one of them?
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Old 12.07.2012, 10:19
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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I just wonder at what point in the past the world turned into a kindergarten for adults.
I do agree with you here...
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  #138  
Old 12.07.2012, 10:21
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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On a side note, we must also remember that the media culture -- and most journalism in general is made to shock and excite.
<snip>
I believe it's a better example of dumb people falling for these 'journalistic' traps without caring about any true facts.
Here's what wiki has to say:

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On February 27, 1992, Stella Liebeck, a 79-year-old woman from Albuquerque, New Mexico, ordered a 49-cent cup of coffee from the drive-through window of a local McDonald's restaurant located at 5001 Gibson Boulevard S.E. Liebeck was in the passenger's seat of her grandson's Ford Probe, and her grandson Chris parked the car so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her coffee. Liebeck placed the coffee cup between her knees and pulled the far side of the lid toward her to remove it. In the process, she spilled the entire cup of coffee on her lap.[11] Liebeck was wearing cotton sweatpants; they absorbed the coffee and held it against her skin, scalding her thighs, buttocks, and groin.[12] Liebeck was taken to the hospital, where it was determined that she had suffered third-degree burns on six percent of her skin and lesser burns over sixteen percent.[13] She remained in the hospital for eight days while she underwent skin grafting. During this period, Liebeck lost 20 pounds (9 kg, nearly 20% of her body weight), reducing her down to 83 pounds (38 kg).[14] Two years of medical treatment followed.
Are the facts any different to this?

A horrific accident, but I still think it was her fault and she was dumb. Another point (but pure conjecture on my part) is that if this had been in the UK where NHS treatment was free, maybe she would not have needed to sue McD's for hospital fees and 2 years of treatment.

Happy to be corrected if there are other facts that need to be taken into account, but I still view this of the "not my fault, even though I made the mistake and I'll sue" culture of the US.



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I just wonder at what point in the past the world turned into a kindergarten for adults.
After reading of this accident yesterday, I had to leave the office... It struck me (figuratively!) that there are no signs along streets where there are tram lines to make sure that people are aware that trams might be coming. What are the authorities thinking about?
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  #139  
Old 12.07.2012, 10:25
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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Here's what wiki has to say:



Are the facts any different to this?

A horrific accident, but I still think it was her fault and she was dumb. Another point (but pure conjecture on my part) is that if this had been in the UK where NHS treatment was free, maybe she would not have needed to sue McD's for hospital fees and 2 years of treatment.

Happy to be corrected if there are other facts that need to be taken into account, but I still view this of the "not my fault, even though I made the mistake and I'll sue" culture of the US.

The case came down to the coffee temperature, of what the restaurant guidelines are, and what temperature would have caused those burns. More along the lines of crossing the street in a residential area without looking both ways. You're fault if you get hit, but what if the speed limit is 30 kph, and you get hit by someone doing 100 kph? Does that driver have zero liability?
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Old 12.07.2012, 10:36
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Re: US tourist killed in rail tunnel

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The case came down to the coffee temperature, of what the restaurant guidelines are, and what temperature would have caused those burns. More along the lines of crossing the street in a residential area without looking both ways. You're fault if you get hit, but what if the speed limit is 30 kph, and you get hit by someone doing 100 kph? Does that driver have zero liability?
From the web site: "how to brew coffee" from the national coffee association of America (http://www.ncausa.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=71)

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Your brewer should Your brewer should maintain a water temperature between 195 - 205 degrees Fahrenheitfor optimal extraction.
...the temperature should be maintained at 180 - 185 degrees Fahrenheit...
In serving the coffee at this temperature:
1) McD's were not breaking any law
2) they were following NCA "guidelines"
3) they were trying to provide a better cup of coffee (not that any coffee lover would go there for a coffee, but that's not the point)

In your (irrelevant) example, the driver would be figuratively thrown in jail for breaking the speed limit at 70 kph over, irrespective of whether there was an accident.

I remember as a child in the 70s and 80s - the McD's apple pies had "very hot" warnings all over them - they were thermonuclear. Same with the coffee. It wasn't anything new.

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Ten years ago my college boyfriend died in a similar fashion-it was most likely a SUICIDE. I just got off the phone with my best friend whose brother just killed himself in this fashion maybe I should share your Hilarious joke with her?
In 1998 my cousin committed suicide by jumping in front of a train. I feel sorry for the people who had to tidy up the mess and the driver of the train.
So wind your neck in and pack up your self-righteous indignation.
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Last edited by Carlos R; 12.07.2012 at 12:28.
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