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  #61  
Old 25.07.2012, 09:59
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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And when I was a kid many people ate them- especially the groups of Italian season workers.
In Italy only a very small part of its population eat them, and they are around a very specific region (Veneto) and the rest of the population is not very happy about it. Have also to say that is mainly the old generation that does it, the new ones are not following through.

As for the killing, there are other methods to contain a cat population all effective but more time and money consuming. Killing is just the easy way for them but not the best one.

Last edited by whitepard; 25.07.2012 at 10:04. Reason: found it!
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  #62  
Old 25.07.2012, 10:30
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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Killing is just the easy way for them but not the best one.
Why bother? Take it easy.
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  #63  
Old 25.07.2012, 10:45
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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There is a significant difference between the words:
  • To Kill, and
  • To Cull
equally, it does not surprise me that "The Local" doesn't know the difference.

This is intentional inflamatory p1ss poor journalism as usual.

When a population of anything gets out of control it will eventually do harm to itself and to others.

Bringing these numbers back under control (selectively) ensures the survival of the species and benefits the surounding environment.


This is not a news article to say that the Swiss are going to shoot your cat. As others have said, put a collar on your cat.

Oldhand mentioned earlier that Cats are killed in regional Australia as they threaten the indigineous species. This is true.
Cats are natural born predators and can wipe out hundreds of species if left uncontrolled.

The object of "culling" a population is not to 'wipe them out'.... that's impossible.
But to bring the population back under control.

When 'culling' a population of kangaroo's, you have to decide if they are a threat to themselves and the surrounding animal population.
To bring the numbers under control it is best to target the weaker smaller bucks and does to preserve the genetic strength of the kangaroo population.
When the average count is back in line with the remaining vegetation and the numbers have been "thinned from the bottom", then the cull stops, and the population is left to recover as climatic conditions improve.


I don't see 'culling' a stray cat population to preserve the biodiversity of a native forest as being a bad thing.
All your arguments also apply to humans, anybody up for a good culling?
I find it strange that we see ourselves as stewards of the planet and at the same time our best effort is to destroy our own environment.
Just short of 7 billion of us monkeys compared to ca. 200 000 000 housecoats I wonder who damages the environment more?
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Old 25.07.2012, 10:49
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

Step-by-step video!



Another recipe:

Gato ala Visentina

Se hai deciso di farlo in pentola, occorre prima di tutto che cercate di vedere quello che é più in carne, sperando di trovare uno che non abbia superato i due anni d'eà, e che la sua padrona ti abbia fatto un dispetto qualche tempo fa.
Un buon mattino prendete il fucile e andate fuori presto, dicendo a casa che andate a prendere un poco d'aria. Meglio sarebbe che il giorno prima ci avesse fatto una bella nevicata, di quelle che rimangono per terra per quindici giorni.
Appena vedete il gatto in questione, fatte finta di non vederlo; nascondetevi dietro a un angolo, caricate il fucile, e fatte quel che dovete fare. Portatevelo a casa dentro la borsa della spesa; per strada salutate tutti, e a chi vi domanda cosa fatte col fucile, ditegli che andate a tirare a un topo.
Una volta arrivato a casa, chiudete bene il cancello, andate nell'orto e appendete il gatto su di un palo. Apritegli la pancia come si fa a un coniglio, e tirategli fuori tutte le budella, tenendo da parte il fegato. Tagliategli via la testa e datela al cane.
Scavate adesso una buca nella neve, mettetevi dentro il gatto e poi copritela di nuovo. Andate in casa, mettete nell frigo il fegato del gatto in una scodella, e andate in gabinetto a lavarvi le mani come Ponzio Pilato; e poi in osteria a bevervi un bicchiere. Nel sabato andate a confessarvi, e domenica andate a prendere la Comunione!
Lasciate il gatto sotto la neve per otto giorni, stando sempre attento che sia ben coperto e che il cane resti legato alla catena. Dodici ore prima di metterlo in padella, tiratrlo fuori dalla buca; e, quando sará tenero, pelatelo e lavatelo bene, lasciandolo un poco appeso a sgocciolare.
Fatelo in pezzetti e metteteli in una padella con una cipolla, una carota, un gambo di sedano, uno spicchio o due di aglio, tutto tritato. Tirategli dentro anche due foglie di alloro, qualche grano di pepe e quattro-cinque di ginepro, un pizzico di spezie e quanto sale che basta. Annegatelo nel vino bianco piuttosto secco, e poi mettetelo in una moscarola in cantina a marinarsi per tutta la notte.
Nel mattino scolate i pezzi di carne dal vino, asciugateli bene, e fateli rosolare in un tegame con un poco d'olio. Quando avranno preso colore, tirateli fuori dall' unto e vuotate fuori quel che resta. Pestate finamente una cipolla, un pugnetto di prezzemolo e un spigolo d'aglio, poi mettete tutto nel tegame con un poco di burro e olio, aggiungendovi delle foglioline di salvia e un rametto di rosmarino. Lasciate sofriggere e poi mettetevi dentro i pezzi del gatto.
Dopo dieci minuti buttategli sopra anche quattro-cinque pomodori pelati appena aperti, oppure un poco di conserva. Mescolate con il cucciaio di legno, e aggiungetevi un bicchiere di vino bianco e uno di rosso. Metteteci sopra il coperchio e fate cucinare per un ora e mezza o due, bagnando con del brodo se si asciuga troppo.
Alla fine, uniteci il fegato tritato. Mettete i pezzi di gatto nel piatto, con il suo sugo, e pertateli a tavola accompagnadoli com polenta calda. Ditegli che é coniglio nostrano, allevato a erba e farinaccio, e vedrai che razza di figura che ci farai. Quando avranno ben mangiato e bevuto, servitegli, assieme col grappino, la novità.....

And another:

· Kg 1,200 di gatto nostrano
· 2 carote
· 1 gambo di sedano
· 2 pomodori maturi
· 1 ciuffo di prezzemolo
· farina bianca
· 1 bicchierino di grappa
· 1/2 dado per il brodo
· della cannella in polvere
· olio
· 1 foglia di alloro
· 1 rametto di rosmarino
· sale e pepe

Inizia:
riducendo il gatto a pezzetti, poi lavalo per bene e asciugalo.
Un suggerimento:
prima di cucinare il gatto è consigliabile marinarlo, in un misto di acqua, erbe aromatiche e ... importante: aceto, vino o limone, che serviranno a togliere al gatto quel gusto leggermente selvatico che ha e soprattutto ad ammorbidirne le fibre e le sue parti più stoppacciose.
Poi passalo nella farina e fallo dorare in una casseruola con qualche cucchiaio di olio.
Nel frattempo:
prepara un trito grossolano degli aromi
- le carote, il sedano, i pomodori, il prezzemolo
- aggiungi una piccola presa di cannella, l'alloro e il rosmarino tutto.


Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 25.07.2012 at 11:11.
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  #65  
Old 25.07.2012, 11:39
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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Just to gain some perspectrive on this. Do you have any idea how many farmers there are and how many species they have wiped out in the last 100 years? And they actually get subsidies for doing it.
I was responding to Bucentaure, who seemed to assert that because cats weren't mentioned in this article, they somehow aren't a threat to wild birds.

I won't even go into comparing the difference in benefit farming brings to the world in comparison to cats, what a ludicrous statement.

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All your arguments also apply to humans, anybody up for a good culling?
I find it strange that we see ourselves as stewards of the planet and at the same time our best effort is to destroy our own environment.
Just short of 7 billion of us monkeys compared to ca. 200 000 000 housecoats I wonder who damages the environment more?
Another ludicrous comparison. Cats aren't humans. The logical extension to your argument is that all pet owners are slavers, that butchering and eating a cow is no different than butchering and eating a human, and that we should be able to forcibly sterilize humans just as we do with pets.

What you also don't understand is that house cats aren't a part of the environment humans are destroying, they are a tool used by (irresponsible) humans to further damage the environment. They're the only animal outside of humans that kill for the heck of it, they deprive wild animals of food and life, and spread disease to humans and other animals, all because people erroneously see cats as an "easy" pet, one where they don't have to pay much attention to where it shits, what it kills, where it goes, until one day it gets run over by a car and they wail and cry and blame the driver and the police at the scene instead of blaming themselves for putting the poor animal in that situation in the first place.

Last edited by Principia Discordia; 25.07.2012 at 11:58.
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  #66  
Old 25.07.2012, 12:19
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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Step-by-step video!


Soon after this person was not working anymore in the program. Not sure if he is back on any other but it made a lot of people upset.

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I was responding to Bucentaure, who seemed to assert that because cats weren't mentioned in this article, they somehow aren't a threat to wild birds.

I won't even go into comparing the difference in benefit farming brings to the world in comparison to cats, what a ludicrous statement.



Another ludicrous comparison. Cats aren't humans. The logical extension to your argument is that all pet owners are slavers, that butchering and eating a cow is no different than butchering and eating a human, and that we should be able to forcibly sterilize humans just as we do with pets.

What you also don't understand is that house cats aren't a part of the environment humans are destroying, they are a tool used by (irresponsible) humans to further damage the environment. They're the only animal outside of humans that kill for the heck of it, they deprive wild animals of food and life, and spread disease to humans and other animals, all because people erroneously see cats as an "easy" pet, one where they don't have to pay much attention to where it shits, what it kills, where it goes, until one day it gets run over by a car and they wail and cry and blame the driver and the police at the scene instead of blaming themselves for putting the poor animal in that situation in the first place.
This sound like you have a personal grudge with cats. Where I come from there are many cats and they are taken care of in the right way (we also did some work on our own) and they ARE NOT at all such an environmental hazard as you describe them here, actually they are pretty welcome by the farmers around the area, being clean of mice and rats. When you get a pet, any pet, you also must be also a mindful owner. The real problem come when they are abandoned and form uncontrolled colonies. This can be a real hazard, in all regards.
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  #67  
Old 25.07.2012, 12:52
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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This sound like you have a personal grudge with cats. Where I come from there are many cats and they are taken care of in the right way (we also did some work on our own) and they ARE NOT at all such an environmental hazard as you describe them here, actually they are pretty welcome by the farmers around the area, being clean of mice and rats. When you get a pet, any pet, you also must be also a mindful owner. The real problem come when they are abandoned and form uncontrolled colonies. This can be a real hazard, in all regards.
Haha, getting rid of mice and rats and birds might be great for the farmer, for but for the environment not so much... That's the very reason why cats have to be either controlled in their population, larger predators reintroduced or stop being fed which all results in a normal, sustainable population.
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Old 25.07.2012, 13:24
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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Haha, getting rid of mice and rats and birds might be great for the farmer, for but for the environment not so much... That's the very reason why cats have to be either controlled in their population, larger predators reintroduced or stop being fed which all results in a normal, sustainable population.
As I said I talked about controlled colonies and being a mindful owner. And mice and rats can be a much higher hazard than cats. Birds can carry disease too. And what about us? We are the biggest ecological and health hazard that ever existed. So what we should do then?
I think that we should listen a little bit more to good old Paracelsus: "Poison is in everything, and no thing is without poison. The dosage makes it either a poison or a remedy." Here he was talking about drugs but it's true for almost everything, nature and people too. Uncontrolled cat population can become hazard, controlled populations has a great potential to be beneficial.
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Last edited by whitepard; 25.07.2012 at 14:08.
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  #69  
Old 25.07.2012, 13:40
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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Soon after this person was not working anymore in the program. Not sure if he is back on any other but it made a lot of people upset.



This sound like you have a personal grudge with cats. Where I come from there are many cats and they are taken care of in the right way (we also did some work on our own) and they ARE NOT at all such an environmental hazard as you describe them here, actually they are pretty welcome by the farmers around the area, being clean of mice and rats. When you get a pet, any pet, you also must be also a mindful owner. The real problem come when they are abandoned and form uncontrolled colonies. This can be a real hazard, in all regards.
I don't have a personal grudge against cats, I have a personal grudge against irresponsible cat owners, of which there are far too many. If dogs ran amok, killing things and pissing and shitting everywhere I'd be even more annoyed. The problem is, when it comes to dogs, "the right way", as you put it, is strictly regulated, whereas "the right way" when it comes to cats is entirely subjective. As far as I'm concerned, if any non-cat owner is negatively affected by your decision to own a cat, you're doing it the wrong way. That is to say, if your animal is defecating in someone else's garden, scratching or spraying on someone else's belongings, killing domestic as well as wild animals on other people's property, running across the street (not only putting the cat's life in danger, but also the driver and any passengers), then you're an irresponsible pet owner. I, as a dog owner, afford non-dog owners all of these courtesies and more, I don't understand why expecting the same of cat owners always results in such drama.
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Old 25.07.2012, 13:45
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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Haha, getting rid of mice and rats and birds might be great for the farmer, for but for the environment not so much... That's the very reason why cats have to be either controlled in their population, larger predators reintroduced or stop being fed which all results in a normal, sustainable population.
There wouldn't be so many rats and mice if the farmers didn't feed them by planting crops. There is nothing natural about the large numbers of mice that our farmers are involuntairly breeding in the countryside.
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Old 25.07.2012, 14:24
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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All your arguments also apply to humans, anybody up for a good culling?
I find it strange that we see ourselves as stewards of the planet and at the same time our best effort is to destroy our own environment.
Just short of 7 billion of us monkeys compared to ca. 200 000 000 housecoats I wonder who damages the environment more?
I know this is a serious discussion and personally I am against killing stray cats, however did anyone else spot the typo?
It seems there are not enough dressing gowns to go round .
Sorry.
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Old 25.07.2012, 14:29
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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I know this is a serious discussion and personally I am against killing stray cats, however did anyone else spot the typo?
It seems there are not enough dressing gowns to go round .
Sorry.
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  #73  
Old 25.07.2012, 16:32
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

When I was a kid, we had barn cats that would keep the mice population at bay in the hay barns. In addition to being family pets, they performed a vital function.

There were also Feral cats (wild stray domestic felines) that would show up every once in a while. The strays (especially the Tom cats). would kill and literally tear apart the domestic animals. One of my jobs around the farm was to shoot dead any stray cats that came around.

Anybody who thinks this was wrong has never had to clean up what's left of the family pet (or kittens) after a stray Tom cat has been in the hay loft...

I don't like the idea of killing anything "just for sport" but there are valid reasons for trying to curtail the stray or feral animal population. Strays carry diseases, kill pets and wreck the food chain for other species.
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Old 25.07.2012, 21:27
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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I was responding to Bucentaure, who seemed to assert that because cats weren't mentioned in this article, they somehow aren't a threat to wild birds.

I won't even go into comparing the difference in benefit farming brings to the world in comparison to cats, what a ludicrous statement.



Another ludicrous comparison. Cats aren't humans. The logical extension to your argument is that all pet owners are slavers, that butchering and eating a cow is no different than butchering and eating a human, and that we should be able to forcibly sterilize humans just as we do with pets.

What you also don't understand is that house cats aren't a part of the environment humans are destroying, they are a tool used by (irresponsible) humans to further damage the environment. They're the only animal outside of humans that kill for the heck of it, they deprive wild animals of food and life, and spread disease to humans and other animals, all because people erroneously see cats as an "easy" pet, one where they don't have to pay much attention to where it shits, what it kills, where it goes, until one day it gets run over by a car and they wail and cry and blame the driver and the police at the scene instead of blaming themselves for putting the poor animal in that situation in the first place.
Jeez, are you a Vulcan? Of course my post was ludicrous, it was meant to be, just don't take things too seriously, it just puts things in perspective, that's all.
On the other hand, by your argument, answer this question.
Who has more the right to live, one of the last Java rhino's, the hungry villagers that want to eat it or the Chinese horn collector wanting a rhino horn boner?
As to your argument: "They're the only animal outside of humans that kill for the heck of it" Chimps do it, Bonobo's do it, dolphins do it, so do some birds, foxes Orca's, Hyena's there is quite a long list, seems that you get a free "kill for fun" app when you have enough synapses to rub together.

Last edited by slammer; 25.07.2012 at 23:49.
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Old 07.01.2014, 21:51
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

I dont have a problem with Cats as pets other than the fact that they kill birds for fun.
We live in rural location with about 6 miles of parkland roundabout. Two years ago a cat killed a Sparrow Hawk in our garden just for the hell of it.
If I had a gun I would have shot the cat.
If the cat needed to eat then fair enough but not to just kill it and leave me to clean up afterwards.
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Old 17.01.2014, 21:35
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

Since I started castrating the ferrel cats population in our neck of the woods along with occasionally feeding those who are still brave enough to come back around - there are far less flying feathers being left on our door step.

No new kittens born this year in the cat colonies around us either, so on the whole everyone neighborhood seems much happier all in all.
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Old 17.01.2014, 22:26
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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Since I started castrating the ferrel cats population in our neck of the woods along with occasionally feeding those who are still brave enough to come back around - there are far less flying feathers being left on our door step.

No new kittens born this year in the cat colonies around us either, so on the whole everyone neighborhood seems much happier all in all.
How the heck do you catch a ferrel cat and get it to hold still for castration?

It seems more likely that it would be trying to rip your face off.
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Old 18.01.2014, 11:16
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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How the heck do you catch a ferrel cat and get it to hold still for castration?

It seems more likely that it would be trying to rip your face off.
Live trap it and administer a tranquilizer through the cage bars, wait a bit & proceed from there. Basically the same procedure as vets use for pets--no maudi is going to just sit there and let them get sliced off without objecting.
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Old 05.03.2014, 14:35
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

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Animal lovers have expressed outrage after an official at the Swiss environment ministry said all stray cats should be killed.
What would happen to rodent populations? I am sure there are some government bods working on this.
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Old 26.03.2014, 07:27
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Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

Google search lead me to this article

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/14/44...cat-fur-market
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