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-   -   Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/151193-kill-stray-cats-swiss-environment-official.html)

The Local 11.07.2012 15:17

Animal lovers have expressed outrage after an official at the Swiss environment ministry said all stray cats should be killed.

Read the full article: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

http://www.thelocal.ch/upload/image/...e8d9e2ae84.jpg

seyon 11.07.2012 17:06

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
This is the end of Switzerland global good reputation (if still any)!
:wtf::omg:

Nil 11.07.2012 17:28

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Where is the groan button for that idiot?

Guest 11.07.2012 18:28

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
That has always happened in rural areas when there are too many around I'm afraid. And when I was a kid many people ate them- especially the groups of Italian season workers. Around farms there are always plenty- and tolerated so they kill mice, etc- but when too numerous, they get culled.
Mind you, it was the same in rural UK too.

Cats sadly are responsible for a huge proportion of bird deaths every year.
I do dot condone, but it's always been the way in rural areas.

NSchulzi 11.07.2012 18:34

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
I'm not sure that it was the same in rural England Odile - when are you thinking about? And they were certainly never eaten :msnshock:

Nil 11.07.2012 18:34

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
I love cats, not eat them. though. If you kill a wild one for its meat because this is the only thing you can eat, ok. But to kill it for sport??? No way!

Guest 11.07.2012 18:41

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NSchulzi (Post 1605970)
I'm not sure that it was the same in rural England Odile - when are you thinking about? And they were certainly never eaten :msnshock:

Where I lived they were fed to the hounds of the local Hunt (quite recently - we lived in an area with many famous Hunts).

Totally agree Nil - I am a cat lover and I find it disgusting too. I don't know anybody who would eat cat by choice now, but it was very different in the 50s. However, I do wonder if it is not 'preferable' to having 10000s of stray cats in terrible condition, skinny ans starving, diseased and maimed, as in many Med countries (sorry, but like Spain Nil).

simon_ch 11.07.2012 18:44

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Where I lived they were fed to the hounds of the local Hunt (quite recently - we lived in an area with many famous Hunts).

Totally agree Nil - I am a cat lover and I find it disgusting too. I don't know anybody who would eat cat by choice now, but it was very different in the 50s. However, I do wonder if it is not 'preferable' to having 10000s of stray cats in terrible condition, skinny ans starving, diseased and maimed, as in many Med countries (sorry, but like Spain Nil).
Problem is, most stray cats are too skinny to eat, very little meat on them.

NSchulzi 11.07.2012 18:46

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Where I lived they were fed to the hounds of the local Hunt (quite recently - we lived in an area with many famous Hunts).
What? I have never heard of that happening and I lived in hunting areas too.

cheesey 11.07.2012 18:48

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
http://991.com/newgallery/Curiosity-...rth-195738.jpg

Oldhand 11.07.2012 19:25

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
What's the difference between a cat and a rabbit?

In Australia feral cat's are decimating the small indigenous creatures. The problem is made by humans and the problem must be solved by humans. There is a difference between someones pet and over population by one creature.

Pancakes 11.07.2012 19:29

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
There's a Korean man who lives above me. One day I was in the hallway, looking for my cat, and I saw my neighbor walking down the stairs. So I said to him: "If you see my cat, will you please let me know? She may have sneaked out."

His reply:

"I eat it!"

(and then laughed)

I was giggling over that one for days. I had no idea this guy had such a great sense of humor.

Anyways... he told me that eating cat was not uncommon once here in CH. But maybe that shouldn't surprise me, since they also eat horse. :msnsad:

Hopefully they won't someday start rounding up the foreigners and donating us to the Metzger. :msncrazy:

Nil 11.07.2012 19:30

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldhand (Post 1606004)
What's the difference between a cat and a rabbit?

In Australia feral cat's are decimating the small indigenous creatures. The problem is made by humans and the problem must be solved by humans. There is a difference between someones pet and over population by one creature.

So what is the solution?

A rabbit is in a cage or in the wild while a cat can be n a home of free to go around. So how do you know if the cat is wild or domestic?

If one accept this, where to draw the line? What are the protection for abuse?

st2lemans 11.07.2012 19:30

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldhand (Post 1606004)
What's the difference between a cat and a rabbit?

In Australia feral cat's are decimating the small indigenous creatures. The problem is made by humans and the problem must be solved by humans. There is a difference between someones pet and over population by one creature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSchulzi (Post 1605970)
I'm not sure that it was the same in rural England Odile - when are you thinking about? And they were certainly never eaten :msnshock:

She's speaking of Switzerland, where they were/are eaten! :eek:

Tom

st2lemans 11.07.2012 19:35

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nil (Post 1606010)
how do you know if the cat is wild or domestic?

Collar = domestic, no collar = wild, as was explained to me when I moved to Ticino 22 years ago. Not that the locals who eat them care that it a pet, but rather pets are presumed to eat industrial food, which ruins the taste! :eek:

Tom

Nil 11.07.2012 19:37

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 1606015)
Collar = domestic, no collar = wild, as was explained to me when I moved to Ticino 22 years ago. Not that the locals who eat them care that it a pet, but rather pets are presumed to eat industrial food, which ruins the taste! :eek:

Tom

At 200 meters, I don't think one will look for a collar.

JBZ86 11.07.2012 19:51

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Is Kilchberg rural?

:D

TiMow 11.07.2012 19:55

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Local (Post 1605836)
Animal lovers have expressed outrage after an official at the Swiss environment ministry said all stray cats should be killed.

Read the full article: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official

http://www.thelocal.ch/upload/image/...e8d9e2ae84.jpg

Why stop at just stray ones?

As for eating cats ...... what a load of pussies you are.

Outside of any city, it was common practice, only a generation ago here.

My wife's maiden aunt, who still lives in the 250yr. old family farm house has a couple of cat pelts on her hard wooden dining chairs to keep bums warm in winter, can even remember "their" names ...... and as for what was inside the skins, she just smiles and rubs her belly.

meloncollie 11.07.2012 20:06

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
If stray cats are such a problem, why not introduce mandatory microchipping, database registration, and tax as has been done with dogs?

Especially since it is the norm for cats to roam free. If all pet cats were chipped, there would at least be a way to distinguish between strays and ferals.

When mandatory microchipping was first introduced there was much moaning and groaning and predictions of 'it will never work, people will just ignore the law..." but 6 years on, it is estimated that there is a 95% complicance rate. Mandatory chipping has all but solved the stray dog problem. (Note I said stray, not homeless.)

The scheme is self-financed via the dog tax and registration fees.

So cat owners - what do you think about - would mandatory microchipping of cats help in a similar way?

Oldhand 11.07.2012 20:06

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
I blame Coop and Migros. We are just too soft, emotional and well fed these days.

Nil 11.07.2012 20:11

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by meloncollie (Post 1606036)
If stray cats are such a problem, why not introduce mandatory microchipping, database registration, and tax as has been done with dogs?

Especially since it is the norm for cats to roam free. If all pet cats were chipped, there would at least be a way to distinguish between strays and ferals.

When mandatory microchipping was first introduced there was much moaning and groaning and predictions of 'it will never work, people will just ignore the law..." but 6 years on, it is estimated that there is a 95% complicance rate. Mandatory chipping has all but solved the stray dog problem. (Note I said stray, not homeless.)

The scheme is self-financed via the dog tax and registration fees.

So cat owners - what do you think about - would mandatory microchipping of cats help in a similar way?

It was mandatory to microchip Toutoune when we moved to CH.

Guest 11.07.2012 20:15

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by meloncollie (Post 1606036)
If stray cats are such a problem, why not introduce mandatory microchipping, database registration, and tax as has been done with dogs?

Especially since it is the norm for cats to roam free. If all pet cats were chipped, there would at least be a way to distinguish between strays and ferals.

When mandatory microchipping was first introduced there was much moaning and groaning and predictions of 'it will never work, people will just ignore the law..." but 6 years on, it is estimated that there is a 95% complicance rate. Mandatory chipping has all but solved the stray dog problem. (Note I said stray, not homeless.)

The scheme is self-financed via the dog tax and registration fees.

So cat owners - what do you think about - would mandatory microchipping of cats help in a similar way?

I don't know how the financial part would be dealt with - who is responsible for the existence of the stray cats? The farmer? The random person who leaves a bowl of cat food on his back porch? The regular cat owners who let their cats roam the neighborhood before they're spayed?

With dogs, it seems that there are less wild ones so that most dogs who live here have a specific owner who can be made responsible to pay for the chip...

Guest 11.07.2012 20:27

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Around here everybody knows the cats and who they 'belong to' or which are strays. Their behaviour will normally be quickly indicative- stray cats being totally unapproachable and will shun any human contact.

Again, I am not saying that what is proposed is right- but that it has always been the case. We certainly always kept our cats indoors before Christmas- because they were the favourite fare of the Italian working 'gangs' working in the area- as they were poorly paid and exploited, and it was the norm for them coming from poor regions of Italy. (in 50s). Our local hockey team still has a black cat on it's sweatshirts- as they always celebrated the beginning of the season by catching and cooking a few local fat cats:(

TiMow 11.07.2012 20:32

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
"Please don't kill us - we might be getting old, but they liked us in the 80's."


Principia Discordia 11.07.2012 20:37

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Sorry, but domestic cats don't belong in nature. In addition to being an ecological nightmare, they also harbor and spread toxoplasmosis. Switzerland has a dwindling, tiny population of true wild cats (not feral or stray) that aren't going to last much longer thanks in part to competition from strays and roaming domestics, not to mention the devastating effects on birds and other small wildlife. Cats are already microchipped, it doesn't help with the stray problem when people don't neuter and spay outdoor cats, and you can't exactly check for a microchip through a scope.

If cat owners were required to be responsible pet owners like dog owners are legally required to be we wouldn't have this problem. :D

st2lemans 11.07.2012 20:39

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
And in the '60s:



Tom

amogles 11.07.2012 20:43

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
I would say that any stray cat caught doing anything illegal should be kicked out the country.

Black cats should also be kicked out.

Oh, and cats shouldn't be allowed to build miaowrettes.

Sounds purrfectly logical to me.

Just saying. :)

Christoff the Blo-cat

Pancakes 11.07.2012 20:45

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
So Swiss men do eat p***y after all?

Nil 11.07.2012 20:47

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrie F (Post 1606065)
So Swiss men do eat p***y after all?

Apparently, Swiss women too! But don't say it to the freak homophobe on the other thread.

Guest 11.07.2012 20:52

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 1606063)
I would say that any stray cat caught doing anything illegal should be kicked out the country.

Black cats should also be kicked out.

Oh, and cats shouldn't be allowed to build miaowrettes.

Sounds purrfectly logical to me.

Just saying. :)

Christoff the Blo-cat

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...Y1yjQIm2kHSMRK

SamWeiseVielleicht 11.07.2012 21:34

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
And all this because somebody who works for the government gave his personal opinion (in the context of protecting rare birds).:rolleyes:

Bucentaure 11.07.2012 22:24

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 1606015)
Collar = domestic, no collar = wild, as was explained to me when I moved to Ticino 22 years ago.
...

Maybe again you should care more for looking for another ambiente. :p

But seriously, in defense of the "locals", not everybody in the countryside is and was poor (it is simply not true that all Ticino used to be a poor canton or baliaggio for centuries - a glimpse on some nice rural mansion could suffice) and/or in a need to eat cats and dogs.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldhand (Post 1606004)
...
In Australia feral cat's are decimating the small indigenous creatures. The problem is made by humans and the problem must be solved by humans. There is a difference between someones pet and over population by one creature.

It was the human to introduce them to Australia, and humanity did much more damage to the countryside than anything else.

And - last but not least - for nature and its protection it's not important if a species is rare, but if it's " system relevant".


Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 1606011)
She's speaking of Switzerland, where they were/are eaten! :eek:
...

... where it has never been common sense, however. Sometimes tolerated, but always with disgust towards the "cafoni".


Quote:

Originally Posted by SamWeiseVielleicht (Post 1606091)
And all this because somebody who works for the government gave his personal opinion (in the context of protecting rare birds).:rolleyes:

Thank God that guy is stupid enough.

The problem is that others might be not. So more difficult to get rid of them.

st2lemans 11.07.2012 23:20

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucentaure (Post 1606129)
it is simply not true that all Ticino used to be a poor canton or baliaggio for centuries - a glimpse on some nice rural mansion could suffice) and/or in a need to eat cats and dogs.

It's not a question of need, by choice! :p

After all, no one needs to eat snails, frogs, molluscs, etc.

Tom

slammer 11.07.2012 23:34

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Hey you guys ever heard of "Dachhase"? (Roof rabbit) I grew up in a part of Bavaria so rural that we used to get the catholic priest roaring drunk and dance around the Thingstone naked when he passed out.
Cat's found further away than 200 meters from the village were regarded as pests and got blown away by the village hunter. period!

cheesey 12.07.2012 00:17

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slammer (Post 1606198)
I grew up in a part of Bavaria so rural that we used to get the catholic priest roaring drunk and dance around his Thingstone naked when he passed out.

sounds typical alter-boy games actually

piripiri 12.07.2012 00:24

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Either don't eat any animals and become vegetarian or stop the hypocrisy while tucking into other animals. One man's pet is another man's tasty dinner.

Treverus 12.07.2012 08:50

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nil (Post 1606010)
If one accept this, where to draw the line? What are the protection for abuse?

The line is drawn at 200 meters... really simple.

I do not get this discussion, this is nothing new at all but has been the same in most European countries for decades. I grew up at the edge of a forest and everyone knew that if their cats would roam too far into it during hunting season would there be a chance for it to get shot. Legally so.

I love cats and really don't want to see this happening, but it looks like some city kids here have no idea how a forest functions: European forests are not really natural anymore, they are no rainforests. Most big predators like bears and wolves are gone and it takes foresters and hunters to make sure the forest stays healthy - our impact is so large that nature alone could not react quick enough.
Cats are pretty high up in the food chain. Naturally would each get a pretty large territory to hunt and kill and they would only reproduce if there is sufficient food. We decide to breed them instead and keep them in far too small areas. In short: If you have too many stray cats will you have a devastating impact on birds and rodents. On top of that will the cats themselves suffer from a short supply of food and intensive fights for territory. This is exactly the type of thing forresters have to prevent. That's why they shoot boars if there are too many or try to nurture species that need support. Thinking that cats deserve some special status is just wrong.

meloncollie 12.07.2012 09:28

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Disclaimer: this is not directed at cat ownership, but at the outtrade between the law and the needs of society.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Principia Discordia (Post 1606055)
If cat owners were required to be responsible pet owners like dog owners are legally required to be we wouldn't have this problem. :D


This is the crux of the problem - the law places very little responsibility on cat owners. The law views cats as 'semi domesticated', and therefore gives them the right to roam. In itself this is not the problem, but unfortunately some owners take this view of the nature of a cat to mean they have no responsibility for their pet's actions.

Yet we do not afford the same to owners of other pets . Dogs are not allowed to act 'according their nature', as the law says that once we bring a dog into human society the dog must abide by human rules. If we are saying that cats too cause problems, then it would seem that the solution is to place an equal level of responsibility on cat owners. (Note I said 'if'.)

While many cat owners do chip, it is not mandatory as it is for dogs. Look at the number of strays on the Tierschutz database. (And yes, to import a cat into CH it needs to be chipped, but there is no such requirement for any cat born here.)

Chipping and registration itself does not solve the problem, but as we have seen with dogs it goes a long way toward changing a pet owner's behavior, as it makes the owner identifiable - and therefore more easily held liable for problems caused. It changes the pet owner's mindset.

I'd also like to see a licensing fee for pet cats, as there is for dogs. The money raised would go a long way towards funding solutions to 'cat related' problems, for instance for a catch, castrate, and release scheme for feral cats.

(CCR schemes are practiced in many countries, with good results.)

Bottom line - all pet owners, of any species, need to understand the impact the decision to take on a pet might have on society and the environment, and take responsibility for the welfare and behavior of the animal.

rob1 12.07.2012 09:32

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
this has already been discussed many times on this forum... if cat is x metres away (300 i think) from a dwelling it can be shot.

use a big bright collar and pray

smoky 12.07.2012 10:07

Re: Kill stray cats: Swiss environment official
 
Well, at least something is being proposed, to protect the natural wildlife (that is part of the eco-system) from being predated upon.

In the Emirates, cats are completely feral. They also breed incredibly, as no-one seems the least concerned. They roam freely, eat out of dustbins, and at outdoor restaurants if you take eyes off your plate for a few seconds your food gets snatched by these cats.

It is disgusting to witness, how these cats are completely out of control!

Shame, sitting outside one night I watched a mother cat moving her kittens, one by one, running across the garden, scaling a wall with her baby, running back for another one. Poor skinny mother.

The "best" the government could come up with was to propose building under-ground garbage bins that open electronically - to prevent the cats scavenging.

Sooooo ..... is it better to "control" the situation somewhat? Or to ignore the problem? And which is the best method? A quick bullet? Or slow starvation? To chip. To sterilize? But, control is important.


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