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Old 16.07.2012, 15:27
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A Swiss organization for men and fathers is pressing for teachers to be given the freedom to show pornographic materials to children in class.

Read the full article: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group
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Old 16.07.2012, 17:34
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

From what I've seen and heard from schoolies they're all sending pics of each other on their phones as it is.

Parents: teach your children well
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Old 16.07.2012, 18:54
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

Isn't that doing the art book section of the school library out of business???
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Old 16.07.2012, 19:00
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

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A Swiss organization for men and fathers is pressing for teachers to be given the freedom to show pornographic materials to children in class.

Read the full article: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group
I think it is good to not raise inhibited children, letting them know that sex is ok provided they are properly educated about ... ... ...

but, I think it is a bit much to be bringing porn into school. I am hardly against porn, in fact, other than the creepy stuff, I think it is relatively healthy. Markus Theunert may need to take his sociology to a psychologist. If a child should see porn, it is imho the parents responsibility to share it, not a school teacher.

With that said, I have not been here long enough to know how the swiss culture is towards showing porn openly. I know hired sex is legal, drugs are legal, etc... but no clue about this one.
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Old 16.07.2012, 19:21
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

Worth noting that the sensationalist headline says "children", in this case referring to 16+ age group which also happens to be the age if consent. And the porn is softcore.

I don't think I'm comfortable with the proposal but certainly people need to read the article to form an opinion - it's not like they are wanting to show hard ore stuff to 5 year olds.
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Old 16.07.2012, 19:26
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

Before internet, school kids found their porn in the piles of old paper they collected.
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Old 16.07.2012, 22:21
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

Look: Nobody's gonna show anything to the kids. This is just another National Enquirer type of story.

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Before internet, school kids found their porn in the piles of old paper they collected.
Of course that's only what you've heard, isn't it ?
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Old 16.07.2012, 22:32
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

Showing 16 year olds a few minutes of pron so they can discuss it and develop the tools to "deal with it" sounds so woolly and pointless.

Exactly how should people "deal" with such material? Most people who use it, use it in subterfuge and apart from a few oblique references with peers very rarely discuss it.

Bringing it into a formal classroom environment with a group of 16 year old boys with raging hormones lurching from inappropriate outbursts to acute embarrassment will just make it awkward and ridiculous.
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Old 16.07.2012, 22:33
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

I don't discuss TheLocal's lies, nobody cares. Just a personal note to it:

We had that in ethics with the older ones, it was funny.
My lesson's "kick off":
Given the fact that at least some of you have porn on their mobiles,
and given the fact that I am an adult with full access right to porn,
what are the ethical implications of knowing that you know that I know and vice-versa?

They all left that lesson with a clear idea that ethics is not just for politics and religion...
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Old 16.07.2012, 22:44
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

Wow. I guess I didn't realize that there is a "proper" way to "deal" with porn.

I can just see it now...

Ron Jeremy's Guide to Porn Etiquette.
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Old 17.07.2012, 02:53
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

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Of course that's only what you've heard, isn't it ?
Wow, doesn't anyone remember being a kid? I sure remember finding my father's hidden stash of Playboy and a skanky Hustler in the woods one time. It didn't appeal to me, but I was curious just the same. Of course, being a Catholic girl, I had no idea what it was all about until I got to University.

It's a tough call though, these days, where access to porn is so much more easily had and much earlier. I contemplate this issue frequently, not only as someone who helped build the internet, but as a parent who knows there is no software anywhere that can limit someone who wants what they want. If the schools are teaching children about the various flavors of porn, that'd be one thing but...shouldn't that be something the parents should do (in the land of the much vaunted Selber schuld)?
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Old 17.07.2012, 04:55
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

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Wow, doesn't anyone remember being a kid? I sure remember finding my father's hidden stash of Playboy and a skanky Hustler in the woods one time. It didn't appeal to me, but I was curious just the same. Of course, being a Catholic girl, I had no idea what it was all about until I got to University.

It's a tough call though, these days, where access to porn is so much more easily had and much earlier. I contemplate this issue frequently, not only as someone who helped build the internet, but as a parent who knows there is no software anywhere that can limit someone who wants what they want. If the schools are teaching children about the various flavors of porn, that'd be one thing but...shouldn't that be something the parents should do (in the land of the much vaunted Selber schuld)?
I have two words for this thread...National Geographic
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Old 17.07.2012, 04:57
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

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I don't discuss TheLocal's lies, nobody cares. Just a personal note to it:

We had that in ethics with the older ones, it was funny.
My lesson's "kick off":
Given the fact that at least some of you have porn on their mobiles,
and given the fact that I am an adult with full access right to porn,
what are the ethical implications of knowing that you know that I know and vice-versa?

They all left that lesson with a clear idea that ethics is not just for politics and religion...
You don't discuss the Locals "lies" yet you want to leave a "personal" note. Whatever it is you are asking isn't clear and has nothing to do with children wether 5 plus or 16 plus being introduced porn in school.
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Old 17.07.2012, 08:00
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

If the first time some teenage kid sees genitalia "in the flesh" rather than through internet porn, then I'd question their internet connection speed rates.
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Old 17.07.2012, 10:29
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

"Just like Mommy"

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Old 17.07.2012, 11:26
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

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I missed that episode of "Thunderbirds", do you have it on VHS?
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Old 17.07.2012, 11:45
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

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I missed that episode of "Thunderbirds", do you have it on VHS?
Er, yeah. Shh. I'll bring it over later.

Puppet oral sex goes against grain for US censors

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Old 17.07.2012, 13:58
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

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Whatever it is you are asking isn't clear and has nothing to do with children wether 5 plus or 16 plus being introduced porn in school.
You didn't understand, that's fine. The point was that discussing porn for many different reasons is already part of different aspects of education in school at different ages and that there is no need for pictures or films for that. My example was the utter extreme in philosophy class with older, but it's the same at any stage.
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Old 17.07.2012, 23:10
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

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You didn't understand, that's fine. The point was that discussing porn for many different reasons is already part of different aspects of education in school at different ages and that there is no need for pictures or films for that. My example was the utter extreme in philosophy class with older, but it's the same at any stage.
Well since no one else has since commented on your personal note, I don't think I was the only one that didn't understand. And if no one understands you, it's hard to discuss it.

If we are talking about the Swiss system, and the US system at the very least, I think you would be hard pressed to find any regular teaching or discussing of porn by professors in any subject at a public or private school. Sounds like an instant firing if you ask me.

And your extreme philosophy porn discussions older or any age is a surprise. Was there a professor where you attended school that you nicknamed the Hedgehog, by any chance? I suppose some teachers do moonlight from time to time.

I mean Hung for example?
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Old 18.07.2012, 13:01
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Re: Allow porn in schools: Swiss men's group

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your extreme philosophy
That's your words. What I said:
- my lesson kick-off
- extreme example
- philosophy class
You mixed them all in your blender. Not me.

The reason I don't discuss the Local's lies is exactly what you point out: one does not discuss porn as such in class, it's not a subject and not part of a subject either and won't ever be it. One knows that porn exist, accepts this fact and does not censor it away from the actual teaching. We teach concepts, and if by doing so, we "touch" pornography, then so be it. We don't avoid it here but it's not a porn class.

Even in sexual education, where the discussion about showing porn originated, the idea is to liberate verbal expression in order to kill myths. Giving them condoms to roll up on colourful dildos is part of it, the reflection leading to porn is the ground attitude that if one needs something in class, we use it, no censorship. How useful and for what pedagogical purpose porn could be useful, that's the core of the discussion, and it's not what TheLocal catching line is about. Hence my refusal to relate to them.

By deviating to philosophy when talking about porn in this thread, it should be clear that I don't advocate the use of porn films. Not because I'm shocked by it of even condemn it as such, but only because in my professional eyes, it would serve no pedagogical purpose. When porn is relevant to my teaching, pictures are not necessary, they all know what is it about and we can proceed to the actual teaching. But who am I to forbid other people to continue that discussion for sex education with pupils 16-19 years old? I do advocate sex education in school, but I don't tell them how to do their job. There are enough people in the field of sex education who participate to this debate, they don't need theLocal's headlines to lead a sensible pedagogical discussion.

In each field of education, there are outrageous ideas out there. Sex makes it to the headlines, not the other ones. To me, this story is a pedagogical discussion like another one. Business as usual, people have different opinions, exchanging ideas is always a good idea, disagreeing is positive for constructive professional educational discussions etc.
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Last edited by Faltrad; 18.07.2012 at 13:12.
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