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  #41  
Old 24.07.2012, 10:23
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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Ok, camping you need to open a tin.. i get that. Walking around town you do not!

I am not saying YOU would hurt someone. I am saying someone could get hurt. Every day you hear of people being stabbed- If fools see its ok to carry a knife they will alse carry one and why not?
I was thinking of this thread yesterday at the local playground where I had a tupperware box full of fruit and a pocket knife wrapped in some kitchen paper. I tend not to cut fruit at home because in the hot weather it goes a bit manky by the time we want to eat it so I carry a knife to cut it or peel it when we need it.

In the past I've also used the tweezers to remove splinters from my son's finger and the bottle opener for a cheeky beer (or 5) on a hot day by the lake with other parents.

To date, after all this time, I can honestly say that carrying a pocket knife has never attracted trouble, nor have I stabbed anyone (although the local "yoof" with their enormous speakers-on-wheels might become a test subject for me...)
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  #42  
Old 24.07.2012, 10:24
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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I am not saying YOU would hurt someone. I am saying someone could get hurt. Every day you hear of people being stabbed- If fools see its ok to carry a knife they will alse carry one and why not?
Someone could get hurt because you're driving a car, or because you turn your head and don't see the little old lady you walk into, or because you spilled your coke and someone slipped.

Life is dangerous; why should your irrational fears govern other people's behaviors?
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  #43  
Old 24.07.2012, 12:29
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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Ok you know everything, the rest of us are idiots with homicidal tendencies who can't be trusted to act like responsible human beings and we must be protected from our mental incompetence. Thank you Mummy, can we wear long trousers today or should we go back to shorts?

Im glad you realise that

I just belive people shouldnt carry knifes thats it! Simples! Switzerland is an unique country, poeple can get on the tram with a machine guns but thats a different conversation!!


.... and NO SHORTS... your Knees are too Knobbly for public display! :P

Last edited by MrsSerendipity; 24.07.2012 at 12:43. Reason: Sp
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  #44  
Old 24.07.2012, 13:50
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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Im glad you realise that

I just belive people shouldnt carry knifes thats it! Simples! Switzerland is an unique country, poeple can get on the tram with a machine guns but thats a different conversation!!


.... and NO SHORTS... your Knees are too Knobbly for public display! :P

My knees are knocked, not knobbly.

But you miss the point,along with lots of theoretical minded goody two shoes. A knife is not a weapon in and of itself.

I grew up and lived in some pretty violent areas, if anybody was dumb enough to pull a knife as a weapon he'd better damn well know ho to use it - because he was likely to find the full length of the blade shoved where the sun don't normally shine. Knives have become a fad nowadays and there is reluctance to apply the right educational therapy to those who misuse them.

Funnily enough - the report that started this debate is far from conclusive, but implied that the fugitive pulled his knife (probably not a Victorinox Picknicker) in self defence because the suspicion was that the two brothers intended beating him up.

Maybe if he hadn't been armed he'd have been left with his brains spread over the pavement.

Whatever the merits of the case, in my view a knife is a pretty useless weapon for self defence - for close work a Browning 9mm is much better and any thief, mugger, rapist and most murderers deserve about 9mm of sympathy delivered to the back of the head - then bill their families for the price of the round and cleaning of the weapon. And I am only being slightly jocular here.

America might well have gone too far down the road of making arms available to the unsuitable / this side of the pond we're way too far in the opposite direction.
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  #45  
Old 24.07.2012, 15:38
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

The sort of knives most people carry are tools not weapons. Yes, they can, like many objects, be used as a weapons. If we got rid of all objects that are potentialy weapons we wouldn't have much left. Why not cut off peoples hands while we are at it - just in case they clench a fist someday?

As I've said in another thread our grandfathers likely had a penknife in their pocket as surely as they wore trousers. I use my knife pretty much every day. It helps me open letters boxes, cut food (an open those pesky birchermuesli packages where the selotape comes off suddenly and it spills on everything) and last week; reinsert a bicycle chains and shave (not on the same day, I cleaned off the oil) because I saw in the mirror that I had't done a good job in my morning rush and was about to meet the Amtschef

If you want to demonise knives that's merely your loss as long as you don't stigmatise others due to your own fear.

Last edited by Moof; 24.07.2012 at 16:01.
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  #46  
Old 24.07.2012, 15:59
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

A pencil is a deadly weapon, well documented how to use it to kill. So is a rolled up newspaper if used in the right way (I can't do that trick). So is the palm of the hand - the first nasty trick punch most people get taught but not one to try.

So please check your pencils, newspapers and palms at the door before going out in public.

A belt can also be used as a deadly weapon so it would be an idea if we all stopped wearing tem - that way we'd be too busy holding our trousers up with our hands to do any damage!!!!!!!!!!
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  #47  
Old 24.07.2012, 16:54
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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A pencil is a deadly weapon, well documented how to use it to kill. So is a rolled up newspaper if used in the right way (I can't do that trick). So is the palm of the hand - the first nasty trick punch most people get taught but not one to try.

So please check your pencils, newspapers and palms at the door before going out in public.

A belt can also be used as a deadly weapon so it would be an idea if we all stopped wearing tem - that way we'd be too busy holding our trousers up with our hands to do any damage!!!!!!!!!!
Ah, but you could still trip somebody from behind!
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Old 24.07.2012, 17:21
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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Ah, but you could still trip somebody from behind!
Good catch,

Not so easy to do if you have your legs tied toegther with your belt though. From now on no pencils, definitely no newspapers (I googled that and it's far too dangerous - check out the Millwall Brick), palms of hands to be surgically removed or fitted with permanent foam and belts tied around ankles to limit movement of legs to a maximum of 35 cm.

Glad we fixed that, the World's a much safer place - but how the heck am I going to get on my motorbike or drive a car?

No need, that way road traffic accidents will also be prevented too you fool.

This is where I shamble off into the distance, twitching spasmodically, chuckling insanely, mumbling to myself and sharpening my axe...................
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  #49  
Old 24.07.2012, 17:23
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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This is where I shamble off into the distance, twitching spasmodically, chuckling insanely, mumbling to myself and sharpening my axe...................
It has started...
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  #50  
Old 24.07.2012, 21:00
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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I just belive people shouldnt carry knifes thats it! Simples! Switzerland is an unique country, poeple can get on the tram with a machine guns ! :P
To carry your pocket knife(s) with you is basic. Without, you are naked

To get on the tram with your semi-automatic gun was / is your duty, not just a right. But a right it of course is


*************************

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O

And who do you think you are Macgyver? What do you think will happen when your out buying Undies?
Is Mr Macgyver a citizen of Switzerland ?

What does "buying Undies" mean ??? If it referes to pocket knifes do not forget that every souvenir shop has them on offer ! And every Swiss knows that the man next most likely also has one or two. So what

***

Add to this that owning weapons is completely legal in Switzerland. I mean most weapons, as there ARE restrictions. And you in case of firearms and ammunition of course get registered--- and every purchase gets registered as well. When going to do your "duty-shooting" (not in uniform, but fulfilling a military demand) you present your service-booklet and your shooting-booklet

Last edited by Wollishofener; 24.07.2012 at 21:32.
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  #51  
Old 24.07.2012, 22:11
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

Bit of common sense here knife fans.

No one needs to be carrying a non foldable blade any more than about 2 inches. No one is suggesting banning Swiss Army knives, they are suggesting banning what are essentially hunting weapons that will only be used during altercations.

If you need a 7 inch blade to peel your apple at lunchtime, you're doing it wrong.
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Old 24.07.2012, 22:21
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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Someone could get hurt because you're driving a car, or because you turn your head and don't see the little old lady you walk into, or because you spilled your coke and someone slipped.

Life is dangerous; why should your irrational fears govern other people's behaviors?
Don`t forget the meteors
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  #53  
Old 24.07.2012, 22:24
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

common sense is only common because of the lack of it. I'm looking to find how to cance my membership of this band of head bangers
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  #54  
Old 24.07.2012, 22:32
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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common sense is only common because of the lack of it. I'm looking to find how to cance my membership of this band of head bangers
Common sense would have been to read the T&Cs before you signed up...
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  #55  
Old 24.07.2012, 22:50
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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Bit of common sense here knife fans.

No one needs to be carrying a non foldable blade any more than about 2 inches. No one is suggesting banning Swiss Army knives, they are suggesting banning what are essentially hunting weapons that will only be used during altercations.

If you need a 7 inch blade to peel your apple at lunchtime, you're doing it wrong.
I'll try and keep this short...

That's quite a span between 2 inches and 7. Most of my blades are around 3 inch and are regarded as gentleman's folders or EDC (every day carry) knives. In essence you may have a point even if your measures are way off.

My point was, that knives are tools not weapons. I add further that they are works of art and expressions of lifestyle. Is the question of need really the crux? Do people need a car larger than a Smart? Most don't really need one at all, at least in CH with the public transport system. Do people need high calorie and high fat foods? Do we need nuclear power plants and do we need to consume such massive amounts of power? ... or maybe I should not restrict the argument to products that appear to cause harm directly ... do we need art or should we stop spending tax money on it? Do we need pets despite the costs, the trouble, the potential diseases? All of these could be restricted through legislation and it's not hard to see why doing so could make sense on a superficial level. Indeed there are enough folk out their who can be swayed by seemingly logical arguments taken out of context of our values and seen out of sync and connection, as opposed to systemically.

In the face of real risks restrictions are, of course, absolutely necessary. But (any) freedoms should not be restricted flippantly. To legislate away part of our culture, which knives are, (I would even say they they connect us to ourselves and our humanity on several levels but doubt saying that will have the effect I desire) only appears acceptable (at his brief moment in time) because knives are increasingly demonised. That in itself is should be reason to second guess such seemingly sensible but inherently destructive measures.
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Old 24.07.2012, 23:06
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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common sense is only common because of the lack of it.
There is not such as thing common sense content-wise, only things that seem obvious to ourselves and that we agree or don't agree on. The issues lie invariably deeper as would be the case here.
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Old 24.07.2012, 23:58
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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I'll try and keep this short...

That's quite a span between 2 inches and 7. Most of my blades are around 3 inch and are regarded as gentleman's folders or EDC (every day carry) knives. In essence you may have a point even if your measures are way off.

My point was, that knives are tools not weapons. I add further that they are works of art and expressions of lifestyle. Is the question of need really the crux? Do people need a car larger than a Smart? Most don't really need one at all, at least in CH with the public transport system. Do people need high calorie and high fat foods? Do we need nuclear power plants and do we need to consume such massive amounts of power? ... or maybe I should not restrict the argument to products that appear to cause harm directly ... do we need art or should we stop spending tax money on it? Do we need pets despite the costs, the trouble, the potential diseases? All of these could be restricted through legislation and it's not hard to see why doing so could make sense on a superficial level. Indeed there are enough folk out their who can be swayed by seemingly logical arguments taken out of context of our values and seen out of sync and connection, as opposed to systemically.

In the face of real risks restrictions are, of course, absolutely necessary. But (any) freedoms should not be restricted flippantly. To legislate away part of our culture, which knives are, (I would even say they they connect us to ourselves and our humanity on several levels but doubt saying that will have the effect I desire) only appears acceptable (at his brief moment in time) because knives are increasingly demonised. That in itself is should be reason to second guess such seemingly sensible but inherently destructive measures.
Willful ignorance.

No one should or needs to carry a dangerous weapon on their person during their day to day business in public. Guns, knives etc should be used at home or designated sport zones only.

The difference between them and a car for example, is that they are designed to cause harm. It is the difference between having golf clubs or a knuckle duster in the boot of your car.
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  #58  
Old 25.07.2012, 00:35
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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Willful ignorance.

It is the difference between having golf clubs or a knuckle duster in the boot of your car.
The Knives of which I speak are not built as weapons. They are golf clubs and not knuckle dusters. You insist on seeing them seeing them that way and seem unwilling to discuss this despite my having pointed it out. Plainly you are hardly in the position to accuse me of confirmation bias. so do we discuss the issue at hand or shall we revert to name calling (however subtle)?
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Old 25.07.2012, 08:07
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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If you need a 7 inch blade to peel your apple at lunchtime, you're doing it wrong.
I always thought size didn't matter?
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Old 25.07.2012, 08:30
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Re: Police put out warrant for Zurich stabbing suspect

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The Knives of which I speak are not built as weapons. They are golf clubs and not knuckle dusters. You insist on seeing them seeing them that way and seem unwilling to discuss this despite my having pointed it out. Plainly you are hardly in the position to accuse me of confirmation bias. so do we discuss the issue at hand or shall we revert to name calling (however subtle)?
I am not sure to which style knives you are referring, a 3 inch blade is probably about the reasonable limit of carrying, but obviously at that length already have the potential to pierce the heart or a lung, etc. I would make that the absolute maximum length.

I'm from Scotland where carrying offensive weapons has been made a serious crime with a mandatory 6 month jail term / hefty fine. This is in part due to the breakdown of society and the ubiquity of the feral and feckless youth on street corners, drinking and looking for aggro.

This is where the European and American (which is more or less how this thread appears to be split) opinions differ. I would say that it is a benefit to society to prevent the nastier elements of it from having access to lethal weapons, even if it means the responsible people don't have it either.

You wouldn't sell average joe on the street a vat of smallpox, or a flamethrower, as they are blatantly designed as offensive weapons, and to my mind guns and shall we say, large knives, come into this category as well. You can play Rambo in your own space, play normal member of a respectful society in our joint space.
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