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  #41  
Old 20.09.2012, 11:07
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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To me the big issue here is the fact that the US is one of only 2 countries in the world that tax non-residents on their foreign earned income. This causes a huge headache for the non-residents as well as the countries they are living and working in. I personally understand that if you are a citizen and a resident of the US and you are using roads, schools, government services, parks etc, that you should be prevented from hiding your money and evading paying more taxes. You are using the services that taxes pay for and therefore should pay. But non-residents don't use the US services, so why are they taxed? They need to eliminate that requirement, then it would be smaller pool of people to go after.
Are you sure about those 2 countries? My own (Slovakia) is definitely one of those. If I declared my tax return home with swiss income, and I would pay here lower taxes than back at home (not sure about that, since I'm taxed at Geneva canton), I would have to pay to Slovakia remaining part. There are some bilaterals with few countries to prevent double taxation explicitly (ie our fellow Czech republic) but definitely not whole world, and probably Suisse excluded.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, how much difference makes this for US citizen +- on let's say 100k yearly salary?
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  #42  
Old 20.09.2012, 11:28
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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Are you sure about those 2 countries? My own (Slovakia) is definitely one of those. If I declared my tax return home with swiss income, and I would pay here lower taxes than back at home (not sure about that, since I'm taxed at Geneva canton), I would have to pay to Slovakia remaining part. There are some bilaterals with few countries to prevent double taxation explicitly (ie our fellow Czech republic) but definitely not whole world, and probably Suisse excluded.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, how much difference makes this for US citizen +- on let's say 100k yearly salary?
Well, then either Wikipedia is wrong... or there is a misunderstanding... so you do have to declare your Swiss income when living and registered in Switzerland for the full year also in Slovakia? Slovakia is supposedly a residential system:

Wikipedia reference-linkInternational_taxation
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  #43  
Old 20.09.2012, 11:47
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

US citizens abroad can have up to 92,000 adjusted USD exempt. Anything over that is taxable by the US government. The big problem I have with that beyond the fact that I am paying taxes for services and programs that I do not use it the cost of living and currency differences. If the Franc is high against the dollar, my adjusted USD goes up, but I still make the same amount here. Switzerland is also an expensive country so while my salary is higher, I have to pay 30 percent or more for most things in comparison to the US. It is a bogus system, but I understand why they do it. We have no power as non-residents and no voice.
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  #44  
Old 20.09.2012, 11:57
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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Well, then either Wikipedia is wrong... or there is a misunderstanding... so you do have to declare your Swiss income when living and registered in Switzerland for the full year also in Slovakia? Slovakia is supposedly a residential system:

Wikipedia reference-linkInternational_taxation
Well, that's some new info for me. Maybe it changed since I last checked (few years ago), or I had wrong info from my home tax office.
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  #45  
Old 21.09.2012, 05:20
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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Not accurate, the US deducts 15% withholding tax on all dividends , even you sign a form as a non resident . You may be able to reclaim some or all of this tax in your home country, depending on your marginal tax rate or have a further liability.
Capital gains taxes are paid in the place of residence, TBH with the financial crisis many people will have lots of losses to offset for years to come.
It is totally accurate, see for yourself, check out any large US Broker (Schwab, eTrade, etc) ask for a foreign account. The account holder can be a foreign indivigual, corporation, trust, etc. They will send you the forms so that there is no withholding. They will only send the forms to a non US address and the applicant must not be a US Citizen or resident.

This is nothing new, ask your Swiss banker and inquire about investing in US securities through the bank. How do you think the banks and Central Banks invest in US securities? They sure do not pay tax to the US. Please do a little investigation, it will only take a few minutes on line.
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  #46  
Old 21.09.2012, 09:18
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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It is totally accurate, see for yourself, check out any large US Broker (Schwab, eTrade, etc) ask for a foreign account. The account holder can be a foreign indivigual, corporation, trust, etc. They will send you the forms so that there is no withholding. They will only send the forms to a non US address and the applicant must not be a US Citizen or resident.

This is nothing new, ask your Swiss banker and inquire about investing in US securities through the bank. How do you think the banks and Central Banks invest in US securities? They sure do not pay tax to the US. Please do a little investigation, it will only take a few minutes on line.
I have an account with Schwab, they deduct tax at source, They send me a certificate & I can with claim the tax deducted then pay the tax I owe.
I have filled in the form W8 whatever , you can download them on the Internet from Schwab's website. They won't trade untill they have the declaration. What you state is incorrect.
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  #47  
Old 26.09.2012, 16:24
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

The future of secrecy is in trust funds.
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  #48  
Old 26.09.2012, 16:26
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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US citizens abroad can have up to 92,000 adjusted USD exempt. Anything over that is taxable by the US government. The big problem I have with that beyond the fact that I am paying taxes for services and programs that I do not use it the cost of living and currency differences. If the Franc is high against the dollar, my adjusted USD goes up, but I still make the same amount here. Switzerland is also an expensive country so while my salary is higher, I have to pay 30 percent or more for most things in comparison to the US. It is a bogus system, but I understand why they do it. We have no power as non-residents and no voice.
its crazy. the us is the only country that taxes on citizenship. all you can do is give up your us citizenship which sucks hard. and then everyone calls you a traitor back home.
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  #49  
Old 26.09.2012, 16:29
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

Question. I hate the thought, But do you think if Switzerland had a Nuclear Bomb, the US could still tell them what to do like this?
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  #50  
Old 26.09.2012, 16:35
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

what ever happened to no taxation without REPRESENTATION?
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  #51  
Old 26.09.2012, 17:57
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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Question. I hate the thought, But do you think if Switzerland had a Nuclear Bomb, the US could still tell them what to do like this?
Well, that's an awfully simplistically stupid question. Yes, yes they could. And I think you need to learn to create a single post with all your answers to save mods te effort of merging!
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  #52  
Old 26.09.2012, 19:12
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

ok i obviously need to improve my "foruming" skills. but whenever i write something on this forum all these people freak out for daft reasons. why is everyone so stressed out on this forum? please chill out people grab a drink or something.
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  #53  
Old 27.09.2012, 05:44
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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its crazy. the us is the only country that taxes on citizenship. all you can do is give up your us citizenship which sucks hard. and then everyone calls you a traitor back home.
That's not true, Eritrea does the same and on top of that does not allow any citizen to give up their citizenship.

If you do not pay, your relatives there will get repercussions by the regime. Maybe that would also be an alternative for fatca... instead of harassing other countries could the US send federal agents to beat up your relatives if you don't pay.
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  #54  
Old 27.09.2012, 09:54
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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what ever happened to no taxation without REPRESENTATION?
I've been wondering the same, especially since I haven't lived in the States for 40+ years. Who the heck is supposed to be representing me?
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  #55  
Old 01.10.2015, 12:42
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

Swiss banking secrecy unravels more mysteries!

Cape Town - South Africa has ranked higher than several developed countries in an assessment of money "hidden" in HSBC Swiss bank accounts, a report revealed on Wednesday.

"The money connected to SA was higher than money connected to France, 8 times higher than that of the USA, and 3.5 times more than Spain," Christian Freymeyer of the Financial Transparency Coalition (FTC) told Fin24 in an emailed response.


http://www.fin24.com/Economy/SA-tops...001?isapp=true
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  #56  
Old 01.10.2015, 12:49
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

Is that a mystery?

When you go to Cape Town, especially the suburbs along the coast, can you see and feel the wealth of the area. If you talk to the locals do you within five minutes get from "where are you from" to how unhappy most of them are with the current RSA government. It's the same the world over: if you got wealth but you live in a country with a corrupt government do you try to bring it abroad. Switzerland is the most traditional safe haven.

That's the one thing the Swiss still have going for them once the secrecy is completely gone: Stability. Money is indeed safe here.
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  #57  
Old 01.10.2015, 13:04
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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Is that a mystery?

When you go to Cape Town, especially the suburbs along the coast, can you see and feel the wealth of the area. If you talk to the locals do you within five minutes get from "where are you from" to how unhappy most of them are with the current RSA government. It's the same the world over: if you got wealth but you live in a country with a corrupt government do you try to bring it abroad. Switzerland is the most traditional safe haven.

That's the one thing the Swiss still have going for them once the secrecy is completely gone: Stability. Money is indeed safe here.
What's interesting here that they've exceeded the US and France who were known candidates in it.

As a South African citizen you are allowed to invest up to ZAR5m off-shore per year. This shows that there must have been illegal capital flow for some time. Here is an article describing it: http://www.fin24.com/Economy/R108bn-...929?isapp=true and that not only has very bad impact on country's economy as a crime per se but also it shows locals sentiments about the future of this emerging market and how volatile it is.
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  #58  
Old 01.10.2015, 14:35
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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as a crime per se
Should protecting my money from a corrupt regime be a crime?

I think it would help the country more if they start working on the reasons why people move their money abroad instead of criminalizing the people who have the means to improve the country...
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Old 05.10.2015, 14:14
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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Should protecting my money from a corrupt regime be a crime?

I think it would help the country more if they start working on the reasons why people move their money abroad instead of criminalizing the people who have the means to improve the country...
Typical smokescreen.

People don't evade taxes because the government is corrupt, they evade taxes because they want to keep it all for themselves. Otherweise tax evasion and tax fraud would be largely unknown in low-tax countries (the US among them).

Those wealthy enough to have something worth moving offshore are not among those hurt by a corrupt regime, they are among the winners, they're among those gaining from the situation. Otherewise there'd nothing worth moving offshore.
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Old 05.10.2015, 14:30
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Re: The end of banking secrecy for foreigners

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Typical smokescreen.

People don't evade taxes because the government is corrupt, they evade taxes because they want to keep it all for themselves. Otherweise tax evasion and tax fraud would be largely unknown in low-tax countries (the US among them).

Those wealthy enough to have something worth moving offshore are not among those hurt by a corrupt regime, they are among the winners, they're among those gaining from the situation. Otherewise there'd nothing worth moving offshore.
I am not talking about tax evasion. At all. I agree that people who plan to evade tax will do so anyway...

I am talking about bringing your money to a safe haven. Hard to imagine for a Swiss, but totally common in less stable economies - you do not want all your money to be in one currency in one country, especially if either the country or currency have a track record to cause trouble. Just look at the development of the Malaysian Ringgit of the last year. Trust me, over 90% of rich Malaysians will have some money stashed away in Singapore... If I was rich and living in South Africa would I make sure that a lot of my wealth is out of reach for the government and not 100% in Rand. Same is true for any other African country. I would want to store it in a bank in a place that is famous to be safe and stable, ideally in my time zone... and that leaves me with Switzerland or London.
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