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  #41  
Old 12.10.2012, 14:39
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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So that there in reality was NO gap at all. Most of the engineers are back home and wait for new endeavours !
Where they were building them wasn't of interest as I was interested only in dams built in Switzerland itself...but that the last dam built in Switzerland is listed as being 1976. You have to wonder why. At least, I do.
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  #42  
Old 12.10.2012, 14:46
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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About "Models are getting better all the time ...."
You mean the ones that continue to forecast the global warming which is not happening.
Oh, you're one of those. I don't care who caused it or why it's happening, but all you have to do is look to the arctic to know something dramatic is happening with the weather patterns. 200-year, 100-year, 50-year events are happening every other year now. It's a pity so many are so vested in denying something is happening because it will likely soon be too late to reverse course and, as someone with a young child, I worry that she will live in a far different world when she grows up...one with fewer resources and more conflicts over them.
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  #43  
Old 12.10.2012, 16:27
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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Oh, you're one of those. I don't care who caused it or why it's happening, but all you have to do is look to the arctic to know something dramatic is happening with the weather patterns. 200-year, 100-year, 50-year events are happening every other year now.
We all have a vested interest in our planet. However, the key is what is causing the change in weather patterns. Despite much blustering, IMHO the jury is still out on AGW/climate change. Unfortunately the issue has become far too emotive.
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  #44  
Old 12.10.2012, 18:41
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

I think our solar system is responsible for all this and there is nothing we can do about it. Our so-called "global impact" is pretty minimal when you understand the bigger picture about where our planet is relative to the sun, it's tilt and orbit and its course over thousands of years. Sure, we could drive less, take a bus or walk, use solar, yadda, yadda, yadda. But take a few minutes and check out this video as it totally makes sense, explains why droughts, ice ages, gravitational changes, are cyclic and there's nothing inconvenient about it...http://www.wimp.com/earthyear/
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  #45  
Old 12.10.2012, 20:04
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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Oh, you're one of those. I don't care who caused it or why it's happening, but all you have to do is look to the arctic to know something dramatic is happening with the weather patterns. 200-year, 100-year, 50-year events are happening every other year now. It's a pity so many are so vested in denying something is happening because it will likely soon be too late to reverse course and, as someone with a young child, I worry that she will live in a far different world when she grows up...one with fewer resources and more conflicts over them.
Ah so you are one of those who thinks it is normal for the Arctic to be frozen over? You know it is just a left over from the last ice age & has been slowly melting away ever since, for most of the world's history the Arctic was not frozen.

I enclose a graph of global temperatures prepared by the UK Met office Hadley centre which is the official UK govt. department responsible for tracking the climate. If you look at the thick blue average line then you can see the global temperature has not risen for 14 years, in fact it is going down according to this graph.
If you find the graph hard to read then you can link to the original here

The US Govt climate centre has a similar graph here except they took out their average line when it started to turn down.

Last edited by marton; 08.12.2017 at 18:38.
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  #46  
Old 12.10.2012, 20:11
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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We all have a vested interest in our planet. However, the key is what is causing the change in weather patterns. Despite much blustering, IMHO the jury is still out on AGW/climate change. Unfortunately the issue has become far too emotive.
Emotive? When I moved to New England 20 years ago, you didn't need an air conditioner save on truly rare occasions, now, if you don't have it you'll be sweating your ass off all summer long. St. Louis had two weeks straight of 100F weather which, even for the hot and sweaty corn belt, that was completely insane. I actually called family when my weather app said it was 108F with 15% humidity in St. Louis one day and I figured my app was screwing with me but...no, that was the actual weather which was not only rare for the intensity of the heat, but the low humidity which is something you'd only see in the desert southwest. I think only those who don't want to think about a changing climate can believe the 'jury is still out'. Whatever the cause, I don't think there's much point in spending years figuring out what is causing it, rather how to adapt. Sure, it's emotional, as the upheaval is going to be rather unpleasant as it makes resources scarce.
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  #47  
Old 12.10.2012, 20:15
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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How many of you knew that it's mainly cheap nuclear power that hydro power stations use to pump up the water during the night so that "green energy" can be produced by the water turbines during the day to sell expensive electricity and thereby create a profit?
Or that hydroelectric is the second most lethal method of electricity generation, after coal? Or that all that flooding causes vast quantities of methane to be belched into the atmosphere to cause more global warming.

Stopping the nuclear program was really really dumb. Obviously there are issues, but fission is the safest, most efficient way of producing power we have until fusion comes along. Greenies should be supporting it. Sadly, fear, ignorance and irrationality win.

There's a nice article in New Scientist this week, that shows a clear correlation between concentration of "wind turbines cause cancer" nuts and complaints of ill-health attributes to wind turbines.
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  #48  
Old 12.10.2012, 20:21
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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Ah so you are one of those who thinks it is normal for the Arctic to be frozen over? You know it is just a left over from the last ice age & has been slowly melting away ever since, for most of the world's history the Arctic was not frozen.

I enclose a graph of global temperatures prepared by the UK Met office Hadley centre which is the official UK govt. department responsible for tracking the climate. If you look at the thick blue average line then you can see the global temperature has not risen for 14 years, in fact it is going down according to this graph.
If you find the graph hard to read then you can link to the original here

The US Govt climate centre has a similar graph here except they took out their average line when it started to turn down.
*sigh* You know, just because they call it 'global warming' doesn't mean that the winters are going to be like Tahiti in the Arctic. Yes, warming has occured before but, from what I've read about the ice core research, never this quickly.

And you should take from that graph the overall trend, not the last 14 years.

I don't really need to convince the skeptics....it just bothers me that it has become so politicised that people point at graphs instead of looking around outside. Animal habitat and range is changing, harvest was almost a month ahead of schedule (normal) this year, etc., all of which are driven by climate. Greenland itself, at the coldest point in the northern hemisphere, which has only seen 4 or so days above freezing in more than a decade had 7 straight days of above freezing temps. Anomaly, maybe, but what if it is a trend that continues.

It's not as though I can do anything more than, hopefully, be prepared for scarcity of food and other resources when the time comes.
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  #49  
Old 12.10.2012, 21:42
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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Where they were building them wasn't of interest as I was interested only in dams built in Switzerland itself...but that the last dam built in Switzerland is listed as being 1976. You have to wonder why. At least, I do.
I do not. The Greens and others resisted any further dams. Plans to build dams were defeated in various votes. So that those interested had to build the dams one or two kilometers accross the border. So that we had
- Swiss companies
- under Swiss legal rule
- for Swiss customers
- with Swiss personnel
- lead by Swiss engineers
- supplied by other CH companies
built Swiss dams in Italian territory
and the Italians did not oppose
as
- Italian hotels and restaurants and shops got more customers
- Italian companies gradually established themselves as suppliers
- Italians could sell land
----
----
Subject to change is that the Greens now will it more difficult to resist dams inside Switzerland and many locals in Alpine outbacks now can see their chances to make as much money as never before
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  #50  
Old 13.10.2012, 02:33
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Thanks Wolli...interesting. I figured it was either politics or a lack of easily developed dam sites. Why only in Italy?
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  #51  
Old 13.10.2012, 10:35
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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Thanks Wolli...interesting. I figured it was either politics or a lack of easily developed dam sites. Why only in Italy?
Italian alps are very close to central areas of Switzerland, and Italians tend to be "easier" and more co-operative then the French.

Add to this that I referred to Swiss companies and organisations in Eastern Switzerland, the Zürich-Schaffhausen area plus Central Switzerland. People from Geneva, Lausanne and Sion/Sitten may have some other stories to tell. BUT similar in the end-effect
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  #52  
Old 13.10.2012, 10:44
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Damn those naughty oil companies and their irresponsible wrecking of our planet so they can take all of the oil and keep it under their pillows...I can't believe they are so selfish and act in that way! Makes me mad

(Written on my plastic keyboard, whilst plugged into the main power supply, in my nicely heated apartment before I go for a drive to shop for lots of tasty late autumn treats like freshly greenhouse ripened tomatoes, French cheese, Italian wine and some bananas)

Anyway, back to those naughty naughty oil people and their insatiable need for production
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  #53  
Old 13.10.2012, 11:14
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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Damn those naughty oil companies and their irresponsible wrecking of our planet so they can take all of the oil and keep it under their pillows...I can't believe they are so selfish and act in that way! Makes me mad

(Written on my plastic keyboard, whilst plugged into the main power supply, in my nicely heated apartment before I go for a drive to shop for lots of tasty late autumn treats like freshly greenhouse ripened tomatoes, French cheese, Italian wine and some bananas)

Anyway, back to those naughty naughty oil people and their insatiable need for production
The companies I referred to are NOT oil companies, but Swiss energy-companies, mostly owned or part-owned by Swiss Cantons and Cities. So that, when you switch on the light in the Zürich area you very likely do it with power coming from Swiss power plants in Swiss ownership and under Swiss management on ITALIAN territory
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  #54  
Old 13.10.2012, 11:16
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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The companies I referred to are NOT oil companies, but Swiss energy-companies, mostly owned or part-owned by Swiss Cantons and Cities. So that, when you switch on the light in the Zürich area you very likely do it with power coming from Swiss power plants in Swiss ownership and under Swiss management on ITALIAN territory
I was talking about the whole fracking issue, not the little sub-forum
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Old 13.10.2012, 11:30
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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I was talking about the whole fracking issue, not the little sub-forum
A thread / issue on "fracking" should be moved into the international section, as of fairly low relevance in most of Switzerland . Because, before you can use that technology you need to have some evidence that oil or natural gas is around. And this simply is NOT the case in most of Switzerland. Which means that also the "Fracking Stuff" would be imported just like oil and so is NO alternative energy source, none at all. And it would not be a "renewable" source either but just like oil and natural gas something exploited once. And I reject the excitement anyway as not-needed gas in the oil-exploration worldwide simply was BURNT for many decades ! So that, while I am fully in support of the preservation of our environment and in support of more modern and more sensible technologies I am absolutely against PANIC (on the Titanic) !
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  #56  
Old 13.10.2012, 12:53
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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Emotive? When I moved to New England 20 years ago, you didn't need an air conditioner save on truly rare occasions, now, if you don't have it you'll be sweating your ass off all summer long. St. Louis had two weeks straight of 100F weather which, even for the hot and sweaty corn belt, that was completely insane. I actually called family when my weather app said it was 108F with 15% humidity in St. Louis one day and I figured my app was screwing with me but...no, that was the actual weather which was not only rare for the intensity of the heat, but the low humidity which is something you'd only see in the desert southwest. I think only those who don't want to think about a changing climate can believe the 'jury is still out'. Whatever the cause, I don't think there's much point in spending years figuring out what is causing it, rather how to adapt. Sure, it's emotional, as the upheaval is going to be rather unpleasant as it makes resources scarce.

That is weather, not climate.

Australia just had the coldest October for 40 years but that is not evidence of lack of global warming; it is simply a typical extreme weather variation.

About "Whatever the cause, I don't think there's much point in spending years figuring out what is causing it, rather how to adapt."
Completely agree.
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Old 16.10.2012, 01:24
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Good idea. Fracking has brought thousands of jobs to the U.S. and Canada and created a good supply of clean, low cost energy.

Wonder what other resources are under those mountains.

Let's start with Pilatus.
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  #58  
Old 27.10.2012, 20:24
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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I wonder what Starbuck or Apollo would have to say about this?
I'm too late to thank Paddy, but I'm glad to see I am not the only Galactica fan!
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Old 29.10.2012, 19:48
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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There's some projects of search in France around Canton Geneva and I heard also some people would like to do it in Switzerland (probably in Canton Vaud, but I'm not sure right now)


Now, there's a large movement against it in France and they already protested in the streets.
Do what you guys can to keep fracking out of CH...It's bad news...
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Old 29.10.2012, 20:31
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

My Grandmother owns a large farm in Ohio. Apparently, she was offered quite a large sum of money to allow fracking on her land. Thankfully, she declined the offer.

Really scary stuff...

That Gasland film mentioned by the OP really is an excellent documentary. Here is the trailer, in case anyone is interested (sorry if it was posted already):

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