Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11.10.2012, 13:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8KSFFT20120928

If it means what they are currently doing in America, then "The End is Nigh".

Fracking for underground gas? ......Is that headed to Europe?

If it is, it`s only due in 2050, by which time I`ll be gone to another planet, and the children will have to deal with the poisoned water.

Anyone interested in what "Fracking" is, Google the investigative video titled "Gasland".
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 11.10.2012, 13:06
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 20,559
Groaned at 355 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 15,001 Times in 8,621 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8KSFFT20120928

If it means what they are currently doing in America, then "The End is Nigh".

Fracking for underground gas? ......Is that headed to Europe?

If it is, it`s only due in 2050, by which time I`ll be gone to another planet, and the children will have to deal with the poisoned water.

Anyone interested in what "Fracking" is, Google the investigative video titled "Gasland".
I think they've already started doing it in UK, but not 100% sure. There may have been some protests which got it halted.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 11.10.2012, 13:13
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 18,148
Groaned at 1,120 Times in 872 Posts
Thanked 49,279 Times in 15,176 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

They'd be better off sticking with nuclear... which is probably what they'll do in the end anyway.

"So... if we can't have clean, safe, modern nuclear power we'll just have to incinerate puppies and kittens instead. It's what you voted for!"
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 11.10.2012, 13:20
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,663
Groaned at 31 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Yes fracking is all the rage in the US right now. As you might think, it frequently leads to pollution of drinking water sources, and has been known to cause minor earthquakes courtesy of "messing with nature"...

but of course the oil companies love it and there's a bit of a boom on in the oil patch in North America (check Midland, Houston or Calgary real estate prices).
it is going to go gangbusters in the US at least until there's a major disaster of the scale of the Gulf of Mexico incident, which is bound to happen sooner or later. Hopefully Europe will have the sense to say No.

Last edited by dino; 11.10.2012 at 13:21. Reason: unintended repetition
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11.10.2012, 13:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
Yes fracking is all the rage in the US right now. As you might think, it frequently leads to pollution of drinking water sources, and has been known to cause minor earthquakes courtesy of "messing with nature"...

but of course the oil companies love it and there's a bit of a boom on in the oil patch in North America (check Midland, Houston or Calgary real estate prices).
it is going to go gangbusters in the US at least until there's a major disaster of the scale of the Gulf of Mexico incident, which is bound to happen sooner or later. Hopefully Europe will have the sense to say No.
Apparently Europe has no sense. Well, they have the sense, but it`s just to make money, not care about the consequences. Germany has already signed up, I believe, and so has Poland, and some other countries.

A long time ago, when I used to be a believer in "conspiracy theories" I heard/read about the time when water would be the most expensive and scarce commodity on earth. People would work just to earn enough to afford drinkable water. Life can be SO interesting, huh?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11.10.2012, 13:53
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,886
Groaned at 215 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 20,935 Times in 8,922 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8KSFFT20120928

If it means what they are currently doing in America, then "The End is Nigh".

Fracking for underground gas? ......Is that headed to Europe?

If it is, it`s only due in 2050, by which time I`ll be gone to another planet, and the children will have to deal with the poisoned water.

Anyone interested in what "Fracking" is, Google the investigative video titled "Gasland".
I don't think they want to frack in Switzerland. But they will be imported from places that frack.

Personally, I don't believe the final word on nuclear has been spoken yet, and there may yet be a reversal of positions on this. The green lobby is going to come out with a lot of egg on their face if they try to tell us that fracking is greener than nuclear. So far they've been sitting on the fence by telling us that we can do it all with wind and sun, but the maths and the timescales aren't realistic and sooner or later they're going to have to bite the bullet and admit that less nuclear means more contaminated water.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 11.10.2012, 13:55
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Geneva and Nendaz
Posts: 1,063
Groaned at 8 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 1,178 Times in 490 Posts
SuisseRomand has a reputation beyond reputeSuisseRomand has a reputation beyond reputeSuisseRomand has a reputation beyond reputeSuisseRomand has a reputation beyond reputeSuisseRomand has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

There's some projects of search in France around Canton Geneva and I heard also some people would like to do it in Switzerland (probably in Canton Vaud, but I'm not sure right now)


Now, there's a large movement against it in France and they already protested in the streets.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank SuisseRomand for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 11.10.2012, 14:46
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,278
Groaned at 121 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

I wonder what Starbuck or Apollo would have to say about this?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 11.10.2012, 15:04
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Anywhere but deadheadland
Posts: 370
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 261 Times in 139 Posts
jonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputation
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Sorry guys, but if you don't want nuclear and you don't want frack gas then your options are very limited. Wind, hydro, solar etc. are just not sustainable at current prices.

Personally, I prefer fracking rather than being held to ransom by the ME and Russia.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jonbvn for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 11.10.2012, 15:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Geneva
Posts: 3,013
Groaned at 32 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 3,783 Times in 1,701 Posts
Anjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

http://stopgazdeschiste.org/74-2/

For information about the area near Geneva.

We've been campaigning against this for a couple of years now and seem to have won the fight near Saint Julien at least. They had planned to test drill in an area between the Route National and the railway (on the Viry-Vulbens stretch of road )but that's been delayed for the forseeable future.

I have a vague recollection of a search for suitable sites in Switzerland, around Lake Geneva, and there's certainly been some testing in the UK; near Blackpool for one!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11.10.2012, 15:08
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Anywhere but deadheadland
Posts: 370
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 261 Times in 139 Posts
jonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputation
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
Yes fracking is all the rage in the US right now. As you might think, it frequently leads to pollution of drinking water sources, and has been known to cause minor earthquakes courtesy of "messing with nature"...
You might have noticed that we have been messing with nature for some time now?

BTW, your statment that fracking "frequently" leads to pollution of drinking water is disingenuous.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11.10.2012, 15:11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Anywhere but deadheadland
Posts: 370
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 261 Times in 139 Posts
jonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputation
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
We've been campaigning against this for a couple of years now and seem to have won the fight near Saint Julien at least. They had planned to test drill in an area between the Route National and the railway (on the Viry-Vulbens stretch of road )but that's been delayed for the forseeable future.
One can only hope that you campaigners have the courage of your convictions and give up both driving and flying.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11.10.2012, 15:19
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,787
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
A long time ago, when I used to be a believer in "conspiracy theories" I heard/read about the time when water would be the most expensive and scarce commodity on earth. People would work just to earn enough to afford drinkable water. Life can be SO interesting, huh?
I wouldn't call that a conspiracy, but the near future and not because of fracking. If you look at the current models on climate change and look at the sources of water in Switzerland, the coming aridification of large parts of Europe, particularly those who depend on snowmelt/glaciers, is going to make water very valuable. That or desalinization technology, but seeing as Switzerland is land-locked, that probably won't come in handy unless the seas rise enough to make Geneva beachfront property.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11.10.2012, 15:21
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,041
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,560 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

How many of you knew that it's mainly cheap nuclear power that hydro power stations use to pump up the water during the night so that "green energy" can be produced by the water turbines during the day to sell expensive electricity and thereby create a profit?
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 11.10.2012, 15:23
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,692
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,162 Times in 7,778 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
I don't think they want to frack in Switzerland. But they will be imported from places that frack.

Personally, I don't believe the final word on nuclear has been spoken yet, and there may yet be a reversal of positions on this. The green lobby is going to come out with a lot of egg on their face if they try to tell us that fracking is greener than nuclear. So far they've been sitting on the fence by telling us that we can do it all with wind and sun, but the maths and the timescales aren't realistic and sooner or later they're going to have to bite the bullet and admit that less nuclear means more contaminated water.
About "So far they've been sitting on the fence by telling us that we can do it all with wind and sun...."

Indeed, they also muddy the water by calling it alternative energy when it should be called supplementary energy - on a windless night it is certainly not an alternative.

There is a lot of development needed before these solutions are practical,
  • need a really efficient & low cost way to store energy for dark & windless times
  • Need to make a step change in the efficiency of solar to make it price competitive with traditional sources
  • need to find a way to build forests of wind turbines that do not sound pollute the surrounding area; people who complain about aircraft noise should try living near a wind farm - at least there are gaps between aircraft & usually no flights at certain times of the night.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 11.10.2012, 15:25
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,886
Groaned at 215 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 20,935 Times in 8,922 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
How many of you knew that it's mainly cheap nuclear power that hydro power stations use to pump up the water during the night so that "green energy" can be produced by the water turbines during the day to sell expensive electricity and thereby create a profit?
And Switzerland buys it from France and sells it to Germany, and in the German energy mix the accountants call it hydro power and not nuclear. That's one way of making the share of nuclear in your energy mix vanish.

In fact, if it wasn't for the profits from nuclear energy, we wouldn't be able to afford to subsidise renewables to the point that they are (in theory) competitive.

The German government wants to increase the costs of nuclear by making them pay for lots of extra things that don't actually increase safety but make people feel a bit better. Have they thought that through in terms of its effects on renewables?
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 11.10.2012, 15:28
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,692
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,162 Times in 7,778 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
I wouldn't call that a conspiracy, but the near future and not because of fracking. If you look at the current models on climate change and look at the sources of water in Switzerland, the coming aridification of large parts of Europe, particularly those who depend on snowmelt/glaciers, is going to make water very valuable. That or desalinization technology, but seeing as Switzerland is land-locked, that probably won't come in handy unless the seas rise enough to make Geneva beachfront property.
About "who depend on snowmelt/glaciers" - well they will just have to build dams to store the water instead of keeping in frozen form - anyway dams are more efficient because water requires less volume than ice and the water flow can be evened out across the year; no snow melt in Winter
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 11.10.2012, 16:48
speakeron's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Censored
Posts: 1,446
Groaned at 39 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 1,299 Times in 666 Posts
speakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

The Fukushima accident hasn't caused the death of a single person (unlike the tsunami which caused it).

The knee-jerk reactions in Switzerland and Germany are quite ridiculous; especially given the safe manner in which both have run their nuclear plants. Maybe sanity will prevail before they start sourcing energy from all sorts of dubious sources across the border.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank speakeron for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 11.10.2012, 16:57
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,692
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,162 Times in 7,778 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
The Fukushima accident hasn't caused the death of a single person (unlike the tsunami which caused it).

The knee-jerk reactions in Switzerland and Germany are quite ridiculous; especially given the safe manner in which both have run their nuclear plants. Maybe sanity will prevail before they start sourcing energy from all sorts of dubious sources across the border.
The official figure for deaths caused by Chernobyl is 50.
Dr. Bernard Cohen, a professor of physics and radiation health at the University of Pittsburgh, was responsible in the late 1980s for supervising the measurement of radon levels in some 350,000 U.S. homes. He puts Chernobyl's danger in context by pointing out the 16,000 deaths caused every year by air pollution from coal-burning power plants in the United States alone.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 11.10.2012, 17:40
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,787
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
View Post
About "who depend on snowmelt/glaciers" - well they will just have to build dams to store the water instead of keeping in frozen form - anyway dams are more efficient because water requires less volume than ice and the water flow can be evened out across the year; no snow melt in Winter
You cannot dam that which does not exist. The permafrost in the Alps is thawing as evidenced by the rockslides becoming more frequent and larger along with mudslides. Once the glaciers fully retreat (google for the Rhone valley/river glacier), it's going to be difficult to find water, especially since the weather patterns will not remain the same due to the arctic going completely ice free within 10-15 years, maybe sooner.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fracking, gas, poison, renewable energy, water




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What does this mean? sun&rain Other/general 10 17.08.2011 22:00
What does this mean? Frank2k Transportation/driving 5 30.06.2011 12:28
Does anyone know what this means? Mietzinsvorbehalt Boogaloo Housing in general 10 18.02.2011 17:19
what does this mean? farra hidlor Language corner 3 06.11.2009 10:11
What does this mean? jane-v Language corner 18 28.08.2008 20:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0