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Old 11.10.2012, 13:01
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Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8KSFFT20120928

If it means what they are currently doing in America, then "The End is Nigh".

Fracking for underground gas? ......Is that headed to Europe?

If it is, it`s only due in 2050, by which time I`ll be gone to another planet, and the children will have to deal with the poisoned water.

Anyone interested in what "Fracking" is, Google the investigative video titled "Gasland".
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Old 11.10.2012, 13:06
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8KSFFT20120928

If it means what they are currently doing in America, then "The End is Nigh".

Fracking for underground gas? ......Is that headed to Europe?

If it is, it`s only due in 2050, by which time I`ll be gone to another planet, and the children will have to deal with the poisoned water.

Anyone interested in what "Fracking" is, Google the investigative video titled "Gasland".
I think they've already started doing it in UK, but not 100% sure. There may have been some protests which got it halted.
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Old 11.10.2012, 13:13
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

They'd be better off sticking with nuclear... which is probably what they'll do in the end anyway.

"So... if we can't have clean, safe, modern nuclear power we'll just have to incinerate puppies and kittens instead. It's what you voted for!"
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Old 11.10.2012, 13:20
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Yes fracking is all the rage in the US right now. As you might think, it frequently leads to pollution of drinking water sources, and has been known to cause minor earthquakes courtesy of "messing with nature"...

but of course the oil companies love it and there's a bit of a boom on in the oil patch in North America (check Midland, Houston or Calgary real estate prices).
it is going to go gangbusters in the US at least until there's a major disaster of the scale of the Gulf of Mexico incident, which is bound to happen sooner or later. Hopefully Europe will have the sense to say No.

Last edited by dino; 11.10.2012 at 13:21. Reason: unintended repetition
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Old 11.10.2012, 13:28
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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Yes fracking is all the rage in the US right now. As you might think, it frequently leads to pollution of drinking water sources, and has been known to cause minor earthquakes courtesy of "messing with nature"...

but of course the oil companies love it and there's a bit of a boom on in the oil patch in North America (check Midland, Houston or Calgary real estate prices).
it is going to go gangbusters in the US at least until there's a major disaster of the scale of the Gulf of Mexico incident, which is bound to happen sooner or later. Hopefully Europe will have the sense to say No.
Apparently Europe has no sense. Well, they have the sense, but it`s just to make money, not care about the consequences. Germany has already signed up, I believe, and so has Poland, and some other countries.

A long time ago, when I used to be a believer in "conspiracy theories" I heard/read about the time when water would be the most expensive and scarce commodity on earth. People would work just to earn enough to afford drinkable water. Life can be SO interesting, huh?
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Old 11.10.2012, 13:55
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

There's some projects of search in France around Canton Geneva and I heard also some people would like to do it in Switzerland (probably in Canton Vaud, but I'm not sure right now)


Now, there's a large movement against it in France and they already protested in the streets.
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Old 11.10.2012, 15:19
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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A long time ago, when I used to be a believer in "conspiracy theories" I heard/read about the time when water would be the most expensive and scarce commodity on earth. People would work just to earn enough to afford drinkable water. Life can be SO interesting, huh?
I wouldn't call that a conspiracy, but the near future and not because of fracking. If you look at the current models on climate change and look at the sources of water in Switzerland, the coming aridification of large parts of Europe, particularly those who depend on snowmelt/glaciers, is going to make water very valuable. That or desalinization technology, but seeing as Switzerland is land-locked, that probably won't come in handy unless the seas rise enough to make Geneva beachfront property.
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Old 11.10.2012, 15:08
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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Yes fracking is all the rage in the US right now. As you might think, it frequently leads to pollution of drinking water sources, and has been known to cause minor earthquakes courtesy of "messing with nature"...
You might have noticed that we have been messing with nature for some time now?

BTW, your statment that fracking "frequently" leads to pollution of drinking water is disingenuous.
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Old 11.10.2012, 20:09
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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They'd be better off sticking with nuclear... which is probably what they'll do in the end anyway.

"So... if we can't have clean, safe, modern nuclear power we'll just have to incinerate puppies and kittens instead. It's what you voted for!"
Of course the new nuclear plants are very good and safe, but what I fail to see is why people fail to see what incredible opportunity this is for an innovative country like Switzerland - jump on the green-energy-hype-bandwagon - be the future pioneer in this area!

There will be a HUGE business opportunity behind this and will definitely strengthen the Swiss industry sector!

Of course you can replace nuclear power with wind/solar/geo/gas together with making more efficient devices and system, this not the question at all, there is no doubt about this!

BUT you have to do it step-by-step, and it will take some decades...
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Old 11.10.2012, 20:14
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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Of course the new nuclear plants are very good and safe, but what I fail to see is why people fail to see what incredible opportunity this is for an innovative country like Switzerland - jump on the green-energy-hype-bandwagon - be the future pioneer in this area!

There will be a HUGE business opportunity behind this and will definitely strengthen the Swiss industry sector!

Of course you can replace nuclear power with wind/solar/geo/gas together with making more efficient devices and system, this not the question at all, there is no doubt about this!

BUT you have to do it step-by-step, and it will take some decades...
About "Of course you can replace nuclear power with wind/solar/geo/gas"

No! you cannot replace one single AKW or other power station with wind/solar because there is no power produced when it is dark & windless.

Geo & gas are of course alternatives & enable you to close nuclear power stations; but I am not aware of the benefits of gas over nuclear??
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Old 11.10.2012, 20:35
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

as prophetic as wars over clean water sound, I highly doubt that will happen. Transforming dirty water into a potable source is relatively trivial and cheap. (Compared to other commodity chemicals which 'wars' are fought over). If/as clean water becomes scarce (and profitable), there will be huge opportunity to upscale the present technology, plus potentially newer, better technology, to fill the demands with ease. Worst case scenario, landlocked countries may fall a bit dependent, but historically landlocked countries haven't had the best chances to be superpowers anyway :P (Schorry Schwiiz)
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Old 11.10.2012, 20:42
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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About "Of course you can replace nuclear power with wind/solar/geo/gas"

No! you cannot replace one single AKW or other power station with wind/solar because there is no power produced when it is dark & windless.

Geo & gas are of course alternatives & enable you to close nuclear power stations; but I am not aware of the benefits of gas over nuclear??
Ok to put it more clearly: with a mix of renewable energy sources, energy storage technologies and increase the overall energy efficiency it WILL be possible to gradually close down the nuclear power plants.

If you don't have this is a strategy there will NO reason for this development, but if you are more or less forced to do it, there WILL be solutions, no doubt about that!
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Old 11.10.2012, 13:53
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8KSFFT20120928

If it means what they are currently doing in America, then "The End is Nigh".

Fracking for underground gas? ......Is that headed to Europe?

If it is, it`s only due in 2050, by which time I`ll be gone to another planet, and the children will have to deal with the poisoned water.

Anyone interested in what "Fracking" is, Google the investigative video titled "Gasland".
I don't think they want to frack in Switzerland. But they will be imported from places that frack.

Personally, I don't believe the final word on nuclear has been spoken yet, and there may yet be a reversal of positions on this. The green lobby is going to come out with a lot of egg on their face if they try to tell us that fracking is greener than nuclear. So far they've been sitting on the fence by telling us that we can do it all with wind and sun, but the maths and the timescales aren't realistic and sooner or later they're going to have to bite the bullet and admit that less nuclear means more contaminated water.
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Old 11.10.2012, 15:23
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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I don't think they want to frack in Switzerland. But they will be imported from places that frack.

Personally, I don't believe the final word on nuclear has been spoken yet, and there may yet be a reversal of positions on this. The green lobby is going to come out with a lot of egg on their face if they try to tell us that fracking is greener than nuclear. So far they've been sitting on the fence by telling us that we can do it all with wind and sun, but the maths and the timescales aren't realistic and sooner or later they're going to have to bite the bullet and admit that less nuclear means more contaminated water.
About "So far they've been sitting on the fence by telling us that we can do it all with wind and sun...."

Indeed, they also muddy the water by calling it alternative energy when it should be called supplementary energy - on a windless night it is certainly not an alternative.

There is a lot of development needed before these solutions are practical,
  • need a really efficient & low cost way to store energy for dark & windless times
  • Need to make a step change in the efficiency of solar to make it price competitive with traditional sources
  • need to find a way to build forests of wind turbines that do not sound pollute the surrounding area; people who complain about aircraft noise should try living near a wind farm - at least there are gaps between aircraft & usually no flights at certain times of the night.
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Old 11.10.2012, 17:47
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Quote:
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8KSFFT20120928

If it means what they are currently doing in America, then "The End is Nigh".

Fracking for underground gas? ......Is that headed to Europe?

If it is, it`s only due in 2050, by which time I`ll be gone to another planet, and the children will have to deal with the poisoned water.

Anyone interested in what "Fracking" is, Google the investigative video titled "Gasland".
Plenty of gas in europa
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Old 11.10.2012, 18:01
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

The fluid injection involved in a geothermal operation, very similar to that used in fracking, was deemed to blame for the 2006 earthquakes in Basel, so I imagine (hope) that the idea will be treated with much caution if it's suggested here.
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Old 11.10.2012, 19:23
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8KSFFT20120928

If it means what they are currently doing in America, then "The End is Nigh".

Fracking for underground gas? ......Is that headed to Europe?

If it is, it`s only due in 2050, by which time I`ll be gone to another planet, and the children will have to deal with the poisoned water.

Anyone interested in what "Fracking" is, Google the investigative video titled "Gasland".
Switzerland to quite some extent already uses Gas, which arrives here in the form of LNG Liquefied Natural Gas. Lots of Gas is imported from Algeria and some others.
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Old 16.10.2012, 01:24
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Re: Doess this news mean what I think it means?!

Good idea. Fracking has brought thousands of jobs to the U.S. and Canada and created a good supply of clean, low cost energy.

Wonder what other resources are under those mountains.

Let's start with Pilatus.
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