Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 07.02.2008, 19:29
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 115
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Info has no particular reputation at present
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Quote:
View Post
It's sort of refreshing to hear that the Swiss government won't do a UK-style 'Northern Rock' on UBS ... but as someone who has left the country but has savings with them it's somewhat scary....

However, as you say I don't think that the Swiss govt can afford to see a major Swiss bank go belly-up so I have no doubt that all sorts of help is being given behind the scenes. Switzerland absolutely depends on the image of safety and stability in its banking system. Having a figurehead get seriously in trouble would shatter confidence and threaten the entire banking sector.
Gav, why do you say its 'refreshing'?? Isn't it actually a concern for the numerous customers of UBS?
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 07.02.2008, 21:20
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 970
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Quote:
View Post
Gav, why do you say its 'refreshing'?? Isn't it actually a concern for the numerous customers of UBS?
Well, I'm a customer of UBS myself so obviously I'd hope that everything would be done to bail them out if they were in trouble from that perspective.

We've seen recently that the British govt at least will bend over backwards to do anything to save a bank. Northern Rock was a relatively small bank, more of a specialist mortgage lender than a major high street presence but the govt committed tens of billions of pounds of taxpayer money to prop it up when it's flawed business plan finally failed. That creates a culture amongst bankers of 'privatise profits, socialise losses'. ie. The state will carry the can if they mess up. If the gambles pay off however, the bankers pocket big bonuses (which NR bosses certainly did when times were good).


It's in principle a good thing that the governments leave the banks to fall if they make bad decisions but of course I would hope if UBS had problems the Swiss taxpayer would be milked to save my savings

However, it's pretty unfair to everyone else whose taxes get raided to bail out the bank. In the case of UBS they are too big to ever be allowed to go under or I'd guess even to be allowed to be seen to be in a precarious position. It would simply trash the Swiss finance sector's global image.
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 10.02.2008, 19:38
Polorise's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: about there
Posts: 2,739
Groaned at 32 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,325 Times in 1,259 Posts
Polorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 11.02.2008, 15:06
muze7's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Uk now
Posts: 1,206
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 145 Times in 91 Posts
muze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Very interesting article on Bloomberg on differences between UBS and Credit Suisse attitudes to the subprime problem:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...CsY&refer=news

They then go on to talk about possible future trends:

Quote:
``UBS's investment bank is suffering a broader loss of revenue momentum against a backdrop of greatly increased headcount and management departures,'' Citigroup analysts Jeremy Sigee and Kiri Vijayarajah wrote to clients on Feb. 4.
Credit Suisse is still behind in managing money for wealthy clients, attracting 38.2 billion francs in net new money in the first nine months, compared with UBS's 120.2 billion francs. The company plans to hire 1,000 more advisers through 2010 and is investing in the U.S., Singapore and Hong Kong.
``Credit Suisse has already pushed ahead of its large rival in terms of investment banking,'' Bear Stearns analyst Christopher Wheeler said. ``They should be kicking ahead'' in private banking, too, he said.
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 12.02.2008, 10:06
Polorise's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: about there
Posts: 2,739
Groaned at 32 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,325 Times in 1,259 Posts
Polorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

some (comparitively) more heartening news at the "other" bank :

Credit Suisse FY net beats consensus, subprime writedowns limited



Quote:
Credit Suisse Group (CS) reported that fourth quarter net income fell to CHF 1.3 billion or CHF 1.21 per share from CHF 4.7 billion or CHF 4.12 per share in the same period prior year.

Income from continuing operations before extraordinary items for the quarter were CHF 1.3 billion or CHF 1.21 per share, down from CHF 2.6 billion or CHF 2.29 per share in the previous year period.

Quarterly net revenues decreased to CHF 9.4 billion from CHF 10.8 billion in the comparable period year ago.
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 14.02.2008, 00:24
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 115
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Info has no particular reputation at present
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Check this link

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...&refer=germany
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 14.02.2008, 09:32
Polorise's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: about there
Posts: 2,739
Groaned at 32 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,325 Times in 1,259 Posts
Polorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

so, UBS earnings & full year 2007 :

UBS FY net loss 4.384 bln sfr, meeting co's guidance; says 2008 to be difficult

loss exceeds analysts estimates by a couple of 100 million chf, but hey its just Monopoly isn't it ....
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 14.02.2008, 21:21
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 970
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Yet more UBS disastrous-ness......

http://uk.reuters.com/article/busine...80214?rpc=401&

Yikes

ZURICH (Reuters) - Swiss bank UBS (UBSN.VX: Quote, Profile, Research) shocked markets with tens of billions of dollars in new exposure to risky U.S. mortgages, leveraged finance and complex securities, dramatically raising its vulnerability to the credit crisis.

..

"They have $60-70 billion worth of exposure to troubled areas and the market did not know about much of it," said David Williams at Fox-Pitt, Kelton in London.

..

"They are in a sorry predicament. They have by far the largest exposure of any European bank and they cannot just trade out of it. The crisis at UBS will last as long as the credit crisis lasts," said Williams.



Doesn't sound good ....
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 17.02.2008, 18:14
JVC
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Northern Rock has been nationalised.

Theories please as to why this was announced on the 4 pm (UK time) BBC news on a Sunday?

EDIT:I have now found a link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7249575.stm
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 17.02.2008, 18:26
robban's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 339
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 173 Times in 109 Posts
robban has earned the respect of manyrobban has earned the respect of manyrobban has earned the respect of many
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Quote:
View Post
Theories please as to why this was announced on the 4 pm (UK time) BBC news on a Sunday?


Edit: Lots of speculation on BBC News24 - that the UK government will DEFINITELY be sued by the larger shareholders, and that the liability is probably £55 billion, though no-one seems sure. There's only 30 million tax payers in the UK...

Last edited by robban; 17.02.2008 at 18:57.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank robban for this useful post:
  #211  
Old 18.02.2008, 11:14
Polorise's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: about there
Posts: 2,739
Groaned at 32 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,325 Times in 1,259 Posts
Polorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

so will UBS go below 30 chf ?

5 days performance chart

Last edited by Polorise; 18.02.2008 at 12:09.
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 18.02.2008, 12:05
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,763
Groaned at 113 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 812 Times in 501 Posts
Charlie R. Soles has an excellent reputationCharlie R. Soles has an excellent reputationCharlie R. Soles has an excellent reputationCharlie R. Soles has an excellent reputation
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

I did mention a while ago that the real loss was 40 B which was effectively what was declared as UBS's Valentines gift to their shareholders. The share price is going nowhere but south until Marcel Ospel goes. The problem here however is without Ospel there's a distinct possibility that the new capital will disapear at the same time.
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 18.02.2008, 12:16
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,663
Groaned at 35 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Quote:
View Post
I did mention a while ago that the real loss was 40 B which was effectively what was declared as UBS's Valentines gift to their shareholders. The share price is going nowhere but south until Marcel Ospel goes. The problem here however is without Ospel there's a distinct possibility that the new capital will disapear at the same time.
that's a bit ridiculous ... I can believe that Ospel has the Board all sewn up, and has support in the government, but to claim that the new capital will walk away if he does ??? I seriously doubt it

would you care to expand on that ?
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 18.02.2008, 12:19
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,816
Groaned at 49 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

I believe that they actually don't need this capital but it keeps them from being in a position where they are vulnerable to takeover. Maybe they sold their boxes of Magic Beans onto the new investors?

And this is more a legacy of Wüffli - DRCM and the Magic Beans debacle were his projects. Ospel has done quite well with this one phone call....

But days will be better in my opinion when Marcel and Dubya are not in charge....
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 18.02.2008, 14:00
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,763
Groaned at 113 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 812 Times in 501 Posts
Charlie R. Soles has an excellent reputationCharlie R. Soles has an excellent reputationCharlie R. Soles has an excellent reputationCharlie R. Soles has an excellent reputation
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

I actualy said that there was a possibility, i doubt it too, but the possibility remains, believe me. As to not needing the capital that also is true and in any case it has to pass the shareholders meeeting on 27th, which is not a done deal. If it doesn't pass, i see the share price even lower and Ospel out.
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 18.02.2008, 20:49
Polorise's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: about there
Posts: 2,739
Groaned at 32 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,325 Times in 1,259 Posts
Polorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond reputePolorise has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

the Guardians view on Northern Rock ...

Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 18.02.2008, 22:04
yeevee's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Schwyz
Posts: 97
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 79 Times in 21 Posts
yeevee has earned some respectyeevee has earned some respect
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

I know u all have your opinions on how journalists have written about UBS press statement. But my opinion of the actual incident was, " you have got to be kidding right?" I am quite sure there are many traders out there with big books who sold the share down just to show their middle finger. Like I said, its my opinion. Nothing u will read in the FT for example
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 19.02.2008, 10:37
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,663
Groaned at 35 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Quote:
View Post
I know u all have your opinions on how journalists have written about UBS press statement. But my opinion of the actual incident was, " you have got to be kidding right?" I am quite sure there are many traders out there with big books who sold the share down just to show their middle finger. Like I said, its my opinion. Nothing u will read in the FT for example
traders don't sell out big positions just to show the middle finger.

they get paid to make money. they sell down only if they think a stock is headed down (which could be, among other things, because everyone else is expected to sell down, for whichever reason)

if you want to show someone the middle finger, it will always be cheaper (and much more effective) to actually show them the middle finger, rather than mess with your portfolio
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 19.02.2008, 20:13
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 970
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

Latest on the Credit Suisse subprime mess: It was all because of those pesky misbehaving traders (again).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252162.stm

Really, those rogue traders, you just can't watch them. What crazy antics will they get up to next?

Good job the banks are run by completely trustworthy guys of the highest probity who really know what they are doing with our cash and it's only the occasional individual (acting totally autonomously) employee that puts some banks billions in the hole, eh


By the way, did anyone see the Dispatches documentary last night on Channel 4 (UK)? Quite a good explanation of the whole credit crunch mess and if the guy is speaking the truth about his personal experiences, the behaviour of senior figures in the banks, central bank and regulators verges on professional incompetence.
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 19.02.2008, 20:26
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,217
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5,171 Times in 2,520 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet more sub-prime UBS woes another $10bn writedown....

I heard on the news that Ron Sandler is to get £90,000 a month to sort out Northern Rock. There are questions being asked about the tax staus of him, and his deputy, Ann Godbehere, the former Swiss Re finance director, who will take over as chief financial officer. Neither of them are UK based for tax purposes. She is apparently based in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
credit crunch, credit suisse, economics, greed, ubs




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More parking woes Gav Transportation/driving 21 15.11.2013 16:53
Zattoo now doing BBC prime inachis TV/internet/telephone 24 05.05.2008 10:07
Sub-prime crisis hits Japan Woodsie Jokes/funnies 3 09.10.2007 20:24
UBS take a 4bn CHF hit from sub-prime Gav Finance/banking/taxation 6 01.10.2007 14:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0