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  #21  
Old 09.11.2012, 10:32
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

I totally agree, as you can see in my previous post I don't find a job because I don't speak german and sometimes I'm not qualified enough for the jobs I'm applying for but I'm not complaining or accusing these companies of racism. They want what's the best for their interests and I understand that 150%.

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I suggest you be careful when crying "racism". If you expect to be taken seriously without solid proof your claim is nothing more than hot air. And I mean very solid and very hot

Just because of an article or someone didn't get hired for a position they were qualified for is not racism. Even to claim discrimination in a case like that is a little far fetched. No matter from which background, how your name is spelled or the color of your skin.

There are lots of Swiss that are jobless that are very well qualified for many of these positions the foreigners are claiming racism and discrimination.
JC
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  #22  
Old 09.11.2012, 10:38
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

Sorry but you are naive, not me. I'm not working at the swiss department of labour so yes, I'm drawing conclusions on what I know, my boyfriend's experience as third countries immigrant, my experience on the company I went for an interview. The foreign people I see everyday in the bus with their badges hanging off their pockets. I think it's obvious enough that people here are not discriminated.

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Do you realize how...eerrmm...sorry to say it..naive you seem? You draw conclusions based on a singular case "my boyfriend did-that" and "my boyfriend's boss is that"...what do you think gives you the right to dismiss people's experiences like that?
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  #23  
Old 09.11.2012, 10:43
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Sorry but you are naive, not me. I'm not working at the swiss department of labour so yes, I'm drawing conclusions on what I know, my boyfriend's experience as third countries immigrant, my experience on the company I went for an interview. The foreign people I see everyday in the bus with their badges hanging off their pockets. I think it's obvious enough that people here are not discriminated.
I rest my case.
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  #24  
Old 09.11.2012, 10:55
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Sorry but you are naive, not me. I'm not working at the swiss department of labour so yes, I'm drawing conclusions on what I know, my boyfriend's experience as third countries immigrant, my experience on the company I went for an interview. The foreign people I see everyday in the bus with their badges hanging off their pockets. I think it's obvious enough that people here are not discriminated.
All our friends in CH are from all over Europe, including India, Middle East, Turkey, Asia.

All of them have great jobs, great quality of life and good paychecks. None of them were discriminated as they all got those jobs based on their qualifications and experiences.

I don't say discrimination doesn't exist but the only time we felt discriminated was at the German border by a german police officer because my Turkish German husband hold a German passport. The only racist experience was from an old crazy neighbor we had at our first place.

My point? Difficult to draw a conclusion on a personal experience itself as mine is different then Ilovemiami.
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  #25  
Old 09.11.2012, 11:20
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

I don't think it's a black and white thing, but more of a grey. Is there discrimination EVERYWHERE in Switzerland? No. Is there discrimination sometimes? Yes. Can we have different experiences? Definitely. Is there discrimination in my home country too? Yes. Is it so systematic? I don't think so but I haven't lived there as a foreigner.

I have made a "swiss" CV, not by imaginary customs, but by what was recommended by the 5 swiss people who kindly corrected mine, and who live in my region. Could it be different in your canton? Yes.

As for the sarcasm and condescension in this thread - why? Just why? It's not needed.
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  #26  
Old 09.11.2012, 11:21
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

How about we call it xenophobia rather than the inaccurate and emotive term 'racism'?
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  #27  
Old 09.11.2012, 11:23
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

I am struggling to understand why there is anything wrong with employers in Switzerland giving preferential treatment to employees who are Swiss citizens? those employers are under no obligation whatsoever to hire non-native employees or to assist in whatever the government's immigration policy might or might not be.

how do you think it works in Turkey, for example? having spent a fair amount of time in and around Istanbul, I can assure you that the streets are not exactly teeming with Swiss (or American) salaried professionals, and it cannot all be because Istanbul is an unattractive place to live (since it is a major city, very liveable and can be utterly stunning).

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  #28  
Old 09.11.2012, 11:26
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Highly qualified workers from other countries, especially Turkey, southeast Europe and Portugal, often face workplace discrimination in Switzerland, says a study from the Federal Commission Against Racism (FCR).



http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Qualified_immigrants_face_job_discrimination.html? cid=33918926
Did these people speak French, Italian or German fluently? I could imagine I would be discriminated against in Turkey if I wanted a job as I don't speak a word of the language!
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  #29  
Old 09.11.2012, 11:29
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

What a bunch of bull***t. Sorry for that, but not entirely.
Swiss are one of the most tolerant nations I encountered, on par with people from Tibet/Ladakh & around. There's a reason why there is quite a big buddhist community here in CH
It might not seem so, but - they live in their tiny beautiful country, completely overrun by bunch of arrogant foreigners who don't give a s**t about their culture, customs and most even don't speak their own language properly (and what they produce is more an insult to their native language). Of course, there are exceptions, but they are as I called them - exceptions. And of course, we try, we try hard (at least some of us). People in major cities are not able to pay rent anymore in places they lived for 30, 40 years. Damn, I would be so pi**ed off, yet they are not. At least not on the level I would be
People, grow up finally, this is their ballpark, they are not even in EU/Nato, so clearly they like to be standalone, proud and strong. Be glad we are allowed to be here and not kicked out mercilessly with first signs of economic and other troubles.
If they discriminate foreigners compared to their own people, so WHAT? I would prefer my own family compared to somebody else, fellow countryman compared to some guy from other continent etc. Of course this is valid if skills required are +- comparable, you have to earn the trust. If skills from outside are superior, then of course it would be stupid to not take them, at full price. And that's what is happening. That's how many of us got job here, by being at least as good as others, or better. So stop whining about failed interview, motivate yourself to get better at next one, to get better at what you do and what you're selling on job market.
I like swiss approach - taking creme de la creme from outside, keeping high standards and not succumb to immigration waves of poorly educated unwanted people from middle of nowhere, that don't help country anyhow.
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  #30  
Old 09.11.2012, 11:32
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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how do you think it works in Turkey, for example? having spent a fair amount of time in and around Istanbul, I can assure you that the streets are not exactly teeming with Swiss (or American) salaried professionals, and it cannot all be because Istanbul is an unattractive place to live (since it is a major city, very liveable and can be utterly stunning).

Turkish universities are high quality educations and Turks are hard workers too. 2 combinations that make it very popular with international companies like Novartis, for example.

No need to get people from outside Turkey for jobs when so many people are capable to do it at a lower wage. Seems quite normal to me.

I got there because I had skills difficult to find there.
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  #31  
Old 09.11.2012, 11:42
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Turkish universities are high quality educations and Turks are hard workers too. 2 combinations that make it very popular with international companies like Novartis, for example.

No need to get people from outside Turkey for jobs when so many people are capable to do it at a lower wage. Seems quite normal to me.

I got there because I had skills difficult to find there.
sounds a lot like Switzerland, huh?

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  #32  
Old 09.11.2012, 11:44
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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sounds a lot like Switzerland, huh?

Et voila!
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  #33  
Old 09.11.2012, 11:45
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Do you mean I'm racist
Not in the least. Your first comment on the article was that it was "bullshit" and gave a single example where you intended to disprove an entire study with a single experience and then claimed that an entire group of unemployed yet highly skilled people were a pack of whiners.

I simply defended the study, and mentioned that there is likely to be discrimination or racism in some Swiss companies, and that we cannot simply blithely wave away the article.
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  #34  
Old 09.11.2012, 11:56
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

Are you blind or analphabetic for not reading that I'm not basing my argument on a SINGLE experience??

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Not in the least. Your first comment on the article was that it was "bullshit" and gave a single example where you intended to disprove an entire study with a single experience and then claimed that an entire group of unemployed yet highly skilled people were a pack of whiners.

I simply defended the study, and mentioned that there is likely to be discrimination or racism in some Swiss companies, and that we cannot simply blithely wave away the article.
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  #35  
Old 09.11.2012, 12:01
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Are you blind or analphabetic for not reading that I'm not basing my argument on a SINGLE experience??
You are quite tough person . I would never hire you if you speak in this language.... I am surprised what kind of job offer you get with this kind of social skills, I would say your job must be something that you do not have to deal with clients or work in team
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  #36  
Old 09.11.2012, 12:01
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Are you blind or analphabetic for not reading that I'm not basing my argument on a SINGLE experience??
Are you a teenager with a lack of vocabulary to need to use insults to express yourself?
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Old 09.11.2012, 12:01
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Are you blind or analphabetic for not reading that I'm not basing my argument on a SINGLE experience??
So how many? Two? Five? Honestly, you are dismissing a scientific study based on non representative personal experience. An average high school education should be enough to see how flawed your argument is, but you seem immune to logic. Did you go to a Steiner school by chance?
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  #38  
Old 09.11.2012, 12:08
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Are you blind or analphabetic for not reading that I'm not basing my argument on a SINGLE experience??

Again, in your first post you swore and used a single example. When challenged you then came up with more, but still managed to denegrate an entire group of people you have never met, and therefore cannot speak to their experiences.

I would simply ask that you are less emotive and more even handed in your criticism.

To quote you, maybe a little soul searching is in order?
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  #39  
Old 09.11.2012, 12:08
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

Pfff pathetic. I'm sure they would hire me more than a person blaming them for being racists or crying like babies because they are unqualified and are not aware of it. And dont worry for me I keep my social skills for the real world.

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You are quite tough person . I would never hire you if you speak in this language.... I am surprised what kind of job offer you get with this kind of social skills, I would say your job must be something that you do not have to deal with clients or work in team
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  #40  
Old 09.11.2012, 12:12
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

I completely agree that racism does exist, depending on job sector there is more or less. In manual jobs, lower skill requirement (cashier, waiter etc.) and in IT jobs (as the boy friend of ILOVEMIAMI) there is less bais.

In highly qualified job there is bias, thats my personal experience as well. Its not only language or personality that leads to bais but its matter of trust. They are scared to trust foreigners which is a normal human behaviour. Its not because they hate the certain groups or countries or race but they find it easier to hire others because of administration reason (visa or documents they have to make), familiarity with working system and last but not the least human behaviour to be scared of unknown (things, culture etc.).

So it does exist but its not only because of xenophobia but for efficiency.
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