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  #101  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:25
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Re: Violent asylum seekers?

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Wow! This is the first 'post' of read of negative behaviour in Switzerland...maybe I've been living with my head in the clouds

Switzerland, like every other country has good and bad. If you came to Switzerland because you were told it was a peaceful utopia, where everyone is treated the very same, im afraid you were misled.
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  #102  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:26
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Re: Violent asylum seekers?

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I thought the police had the knives? why would they let TV reporters test how sharp they were?
so the public can be made aware of the truly horrific nature of this despicable crime

see this report for more details
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  #103  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:26
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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TV reporter stated that the knives were blunt.

TV reporters of course are experts But even if, it legally does not matter, as they wanted to kill the lamb as swiftly as possible to prepare it for eating

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The police were actually there.

I doubt if any of the contributors to this thread were.

But most likely not when the Shish Kebab was eaten

************************************************** *****
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  #104  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:31
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Re: Violent asylum seekers?

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so the public can be made aware of the truly horrific nature of this despicable crime
I cant decide if you're being serious...

I think you're moral barometer needs correcting. Murder and rape are despicable crimes.

Stealing a lamb because you want to eat it is, in comparison, not.

For the record, im not condoning what they did. What they did is a crime. But it is not 'truly horrific' or 'despicable'. Its more akin to a misdemeanor. They should be forced to recompense the farmer, and treated no differently because of their religion or nationality.
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  #105  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:32
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49da0e466.html

It's called the UN convention on Refugees, ratified first in 1951
the UN Convention sets out certain rules under which countries must treat refugees and puts restrictions on how countries may expel refugees who enter illegally, but I don't find anything that would obligate countries to accept refugees in the first place.
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  #106  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:33
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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TV reporters of course are experts But even if, it legally does not matter, as they wanted to kill the lamb as swiftly as possible to prepare it for eating

***********************************



But most likely not when the Shish Kebab was eaten

************************************************** *****
Im hungry now...
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  #107  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:33
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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I love the fact you consider halal meat not 'proper meat'. Im sure the billions of muslims in the world would agree with you. I bet you never even registered what you implied, did you?

Incidentally, i love shish kebabs.
By implying that I did not register what I seem to have implied, you also imply that you are smarter than me, not registering that I have very intentionally implied that halal meat may not be considered 'proper meat' by those I have critiziced for either condoning or condemning behavior based on their own prejudices, both of which I find wrong. Or in short, you, unlike others, did not understand what I wrote.
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  #108  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:35
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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the UN Convention sets out certain rules under which countries must treat refugees and puts restrictions on how countries may expel refugees who enter illegally, but I don't find anything that would obligate countries to accept refugees in the first place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-refoulement

CAT - Convention Against Torture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...gainst_Torture

Non-refoulement is a principle of the international law and states must first examine the case at hand before deciding to expel or grant the applicant refugee or subsidiary status.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 000-wouters-B-25-02-2009.pdf (2.27 MB, 665 views)
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  #109  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:38
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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By implying that I did not register what I seem to have implied, you also imply that you are smarter than me, not registering that I have very intentionally implied that halal meat may not be considered 'proper meat' by those I have critiziced for either condoning or condemning behavior based on their own prejudices, both of which I find wrong. Or in short, you, unlike others, did not understand what I wrote.

How you came to the supposition that my annotation about your implication is an implication in itself about my supposition about either your or my own smartness is something that will need significant elaboration. right back :-)

I didnt register that it was intentional, incidentally. Apologies for the offence caused.
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  #110  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:38
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Re: Violent asylum seekers?

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Murder and rape are despicable crimes.

Stealing a lamb because you want to eat it is, in comparison, not.
Stealing and murdering an innocent lamb is indeed an horrific crime. Police were unable to determine whether or not the lamb had also been raped.
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  #111  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:41
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Re: Violent asylum seekers?

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Stealing and murdering an innocent lamb is indeed an horrific crime. Police were unable to determine whether or not the lamb had also been raped.

But was the TV report able to determine it? If so, we have a despicable crime!

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  #112  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:43
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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As opposed to staying with them in the knowledge they (and themselves) will almost certainly be harmed (and possibly killed)?
Well, there was a time that woman and chidren were the first to leave a sinking ship. Or that if you were fleeing you at least did it together. Remember that this persecution they're running away from is not anonymous letters from neighbours about the laundry rota, but about torture and murder. Would you leave your family in that situation while you go through a multi-year asylum process?
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  #113  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:50
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Re: Violent asylum seekers?

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But was the TV report able to determine it? If so, we have a despicable crime!

The remains of the animal were discovered by police, as shown in the TV report (linked to in a previous post). Hopefully the police forensic team will examine them to see if the poor animal had been violated prior to it's horrific death.
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  #114  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:51
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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Well, there was a time that woman and chidren were the first to leave a sinking ship. Or that if you were fleeing you at least did it together. Remember that this persecution they're running away from is not anonymous letters from neighbours about the laundry rota, but about torture and murder. Would you leave your family in that situation while you go through a multi-year asylum process?
The sinking ship analogy is a little inappropriate here. On a sinking ship, those who get on the lifeboats will almost certainly survive, whilst those who stay on the ship will almost certainly die. In such a situation, then of course, the men should go last.

But what if there was another, larger ship that the woman and children may not have the ability to bring back? would it then be cowardly for a man to go and retrieve this second ship, and ensure everyones safety?

Generally, men are persecuted first (in modern regimes, though this is by no means a hard and fast rule. Some oppression is indiscriminately brutal).

The men feel it a responsibility that they leave and make arrangements for their families.

I understand what you're saying, and hopefully neither of us ever has to make that decision. But the fact is, their faced with an impossible choice. The only hope of safeguarding their familys future is by leaving them (hopefully) briefly.
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  #115  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:53
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Re: Violent asylum seekers?

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The remains of the animal were discovered by police, as shown in the TV report (linked to in a previous post). Hopefully the police forensic team will examine them to see if the poor animal had been violated prior to it's horrific death.

I think the evidence has, by now, been minced, spiced, and cooked. Served with salad and some spicy Halloumi sauce in a freshly baked, still-hot pitta. Possibly with some fries on the side, and garnished with a slice of lemon.

I fear we are straying into territory that is possibly not political.
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  #116  
Old 14.11.2012, 12:58
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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Generally, men are persecuted first (in modern regimes, though this is by no means a hard and fast rule. Some oppression is indiscriminately brutal).
Not really.

The families of those who flee are often exposed to reprisal actions by the regime. So in a way fleeing can make things worse for those who stay behind.

Besides which, a woman without a man can have a tough life in many of these regimes anyway, independently of whether they are being targetted by the police or not.
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  #117  
Old 14.11.2012, 13:06
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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That makes it sound as if you were the reason they were trying to escape?
They were trying to escape communism and dictatorship, to be precise. Not the country itself, not their families, not their culture, neither their language. Only the oppression, man, "only" that. Hard for some to picture themselves in a place like that, I know, I don't take it personally..

And btw, the families of those left behind, though persecuted by the regime...were happy for those who made it. I guess you can't understand that either.
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  #118  
Old 14.11.2012, 13:16
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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Aggression DB, beware of it, it can devour one.

When seeking asylum in a foreign country one should tread warily and obey the laws of that land - not bring one`s own violence into the peaceful society one is hoping will accept and nurture one.

So, yes, Tunisians did the dirty deed, apparently? Foreigners. Why get snarky about them being foreigners? If they were Swiss one could not then use the word "racist". Would that have made it a more acceptable crime?
I honestly sympathize with asylum seekers because if you spend a day with one of them you would understand. They're basically put in a hostel without knowing where their future lies, what is going to happen to them, they have no work, there are no recreational activities for them to do. They spend their day and night around other asylum seekers who are severely depressed...
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  #119  
Old 14.11.2012, 13:25
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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I know quite a few ex-asylum seekers, because I come from a country where people tried to escape from, and that was not so long ago... I know the courage and madness it takes, the hell some people have been through, provided they survived the shooting from both borders...Can anyone imagine what's like to cross the Danube by swimming, be prisoned in Serbia, then given back to Romanian authorities as a "country traitor" and executed? No. But it happened. Oh, so many times. Yeah, I have an idea what they are going through.
Those who are lucky enough to have made it, if they come from such places, where you could have criminal record for speaking up your mind, most probably take the chance they have..
We all have this disturbing tendency to think high of ourselves and low about others.
I hear the members of Pussy Riot have criminal records.
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  #120  
Old 14.11.2012, 13:39
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Re: Violent ayslum seekers?

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As opposed to staying with them in the knowledge they (and themselves) will almost certainly be harmed (and possibly killed)?

Exactly. Like the captain of the ship who abandons it, leaving the passengers to save themselves? (Captain of the Concordia ring a bell?)

If the country they are fleeing from is so bad, how does the man just go and leave his family behind to fend for themselves, and "almost certainly be harmed possibly killed"?
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