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  #61  
Old 13.12.2007, 11:35
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

As strange as it seems and as democratic as Switzerland would appear to be, it is my opinion that the Nationalrat members in ousting Blocher have not only ignored the wishes of the electorate (even if we don't vote directly for Bundesrat members) but also not reckoned with the feeling that they have maybe won a battle but lost the war in working with the Konkordanz principle. Yes I voted SVP, yes we have 2 Bundesrat members, but they are not the ones that many want in Bern representing our interests. I don't want to over react as nothing undemocratic has happened, it is all just very sneaky and very personal and not in what I would consider to be in the best interests of Switzerland. Use the best politicians you have to represent your nation, don't accept a compromise.
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Old 13.12.2007, 12:06
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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From Reuters :



how will the highlited piece affect things in reality ?

I really like the "playground stance" in that final quote ...

Other English sources are : Geneva Tribune & Earth Times
In real life this means that they were excluded of the Fraktion of the SVP in the Bundeshaus,e.g. it's not the respective Bundesrat that is trying to lobby for his party's goals etcwithin th eBundesrat now,but the fraktion wants to try and push their goals bow via referendums etc.

But they willstil remain members of the party!


Other than that, I would like to say what goes around comes around, it was four years ago when the SVP acted like a really very stubborn child throwing a temper tantrum to get Blocher elected in the first time.
Despite his promises he was not willing to accept the rule of collegialism(sp?),which he violated more than once, he made shameless use of his insider knowledge of many things,and didn't care about anything but his interests.

He changed the moderate middle to right political programm of the SVP to he very much rightwing programme and this is not the people's party the SVP once was and all the hulabaloo about the black sheep etc that they caused for the assembly elections,didn't go down too well with the other parties and thus I think it's payback time now,and I congratulate the ppl of the assembly to having done so.

There are rumours that Blocher might, built his own party now, and we don't need to be psychics to know what programme this party would have ..................
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  #63  
Old 13.12.2007, 12:23
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

the real black sheep of Swiss politics has been identified.
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Old 13.12.2007, 12:52
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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As strange as it seems and as democratic as Switzerland would appear to be, it is my opinion that the Nationalrat members in ousting Blocher have not only ignored the wishes of the electorate (even if we don't vote directly for Bundesrat members) but also not reckoned with the feeling that they have maybe won a battle but lost the war in working with the Konkordanz principle.
Funny you should say that since Mr. Blocher himself is the first enemy of the Konkordanz principle...

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Use the best politicians you have to represent your nation, don't accept a compromise.
Amen to that. That's why Blocher's been kicked out to make place for a very qualified lady.
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  #65  
Old 13.12.2007, 13:18
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

I disagree Shorrick; there was a lot of media speculation about Blocher not accepting the Konkordanz principle when he was elected, but he stuck to its inherent definition throughout his term in office.

Secondly, we can only wait to see how Widmer-Schlumpf (do they really cross breed smurfs in Graubünden?) fairs, we need to give her a chance, but that wasn't he reason for my initial post.
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Old 13.12.2007, 13:21
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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I disagree Shorrick; there was a lot of media speculation about Blocher not accepting the Konkordanz principle when he was elected, but he stuck to its inherent definition throughout his term in office.
Well what I've seen of him both actions and speech definitely didn't look like media speculation (and no I'm not referring to the white sheep hulaballoo).

May I also respectfully point out that the Federal Council seems to disagree with you, having officially admonished Blocher for breach of collegiality (which, funny enough, he didn't deny).
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  #67  
Old 13.12.2007, 14:04
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

It has to be remembered that the SVP only got 30% of the vote which means 70% disagreed with them. It clearly was not the opinion of the people that they wanted a SVP "Government" otherwise they would have received over 50% of the votes. Clearly in a parliament elected by proportional representation it is unlikely that there will ever be an absolute majority. Which means having friends is important and the actions of SVP and their rhetoric means their friends are in short supply.

The SVP still has 2 members of the Bundesrat, even if they seem to like to try and disown them. Blocher, has through many of his statements and actions has damaged the international reputation of Switzerland. Many of his statements as a Bundesrat were SVP political declarations rather than representing the colective view of the Bundesrat. It has to be remembered that the SVP believe the anti racism act should be changed as it stops their right to free speech. Considering that many people would view of the posters they have used over the past few years to be racist it scares me what they would do if the act did not exist. Remember Blocher on an official visit to Turkey as the Justice minister suggested the act should be changed.

He alse accused an innocent man of a crime without fully apologising. I can congratulate swiss democracy for working where the views of the 70% have been heard and Blocher is no longer in the Bundesrat.

The SVP is currently behaving like a toddler who can't get their own way and throwing all the toys out of the cot. They have 2 members of the Bundesrat so they should grow up and start acting like adults.

Regards

Martin ( who has lived here for 18 years and does speak German and understand sufficient Basel Deutsch)

Last edited by BaselLife; 13.12.2007 at 15:00. Reason: grammer
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  #68  
Old 13.12.2007, 14:18
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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He alse accused an innocent man of a crime without apologising.
Whats this all about? I'm not challenging you or anything, but I'd never heard about it before (to be honest, I've only just started to pay attention to Swiss politics).

Surely such accusations would have lead to slander charges being brought against Blocher?
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  #69  
Old 13.12.2007, 14:18
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

Looks like the SVP from Bern (and likely Graubunden as well) are going to split off...

From the Basler Zeitung.
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  #70  
Old 13.12.2007, 14:22
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

What goes around, comes around.

Four years ago, Metzler had to leave because of him. Now he has to leave because of a younger female.

We've got lots of staunch SVP fans around my area. The local newspaper will undoubtedly do a lot of quoting of these local cervelat promis in the next days to come.

It's like New Year's Eve: throw out the old and get on with the new.
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  #71  
Old 13.12.2007, 14:25
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

The principle of concordance and the magic formula are designed to prevent the Bundesrat being dominated by any particular party. The members are chosen by a majority of parliament and no party has the right to insist that only it's chosen representatives are elected. The members of the Bundesrat are bound to respect the principle of concordance in that they are willing to reach a compromise with each other and stand united behind their decisions. Blocher has failed to honour that agreement and that above all else is the reason he should go.

By disowning their own members, the SVP have shown how dangerous a party they are. This would suggest that their ultimate aim is to overthrow democracy and have Switzerland become a dictatorship like their Northern neighbour was 70 years ago.
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  #72  
Old 13.12.2007, 14:29
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

My feeling is (rightly or wrongly) that the SVP perhaps is beginning to see that Blocher is starting to be regarded as a bit of a joke, for want of a better word. It's his name which is bandied about when these racist posters pop up having a bash at foreigners, and he doesn't seem to think too carefully before publically blurting out something totally inappropriate about, for example, members of his fellow Bundesrat.

Maybe they want to kind of get him out of the way before the party is totally overshadowed by Blocher and his blunders.

I'm not big on Swiss politics but that's my impression of the situation.
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  #73  
Old 13.12.2007, 14:35
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

This image says it all
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  #74  
Old 13.12.2007, 14:39
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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This image says it all
Exactly! It's not good when the head of your political party starts to look ridiculous. The media is usually good enough at doing it for you but in Blocher's case (and that chappy from across the water, Bush) they seem to make a good enough job of making themselves look daft.
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Old 13.12.2007, 14:55
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

Hi Pacman,

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/d...=1148911739000

The Swiss justice minister, Christoph Blocher, is facing criminal charges after claiming in a speech that two Albanians seeking asylum were lawbreakers.

The lawyer representing one of the men confirmed on Monday that his client had filed a complaint against the minister for slander, defamatory remarks, offensive language and violation of a person's rights.
The charges were filed following a speech made by Blocher to the Zurich section of his rightwing People's Party in January.
The minister had complained at the time that he could not understand why two men accused by the Albanian government of a series of crimes including two murders and hold-ups had been given refugee status.
According to Blocher, the two "criminals" could not be extradited to their homeland because the asylum appeals commission had already decided they could stay in Switzerland.
The minister failed to point out that the commission had concluded that the charges against the two men were politically motivated. The Swiss federal court later agreed, stating that the evidence against the two accused supplied by the Albanian authorities was most likely fabricated.
After the initial uproar caused by his remarks, Blocher denied making them a number of times – including in parliament. But he later admitted he had made an error.
==Regret=="I regret this slip of the tongue," he said at the time. "I should have said 'suspected criminals' instead of 'criminals'."
But Blocher's backtracking failed to convince the plaintiff and his lawyer.
The lawyer, Heinz Lüscher, told the NZZ am Sonntag newspaper that Blocher's regrets had only managed to reinforce the impression his client was a criminal who had escaped extradition.
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Old 13.12.2007, 15:18
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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Hi Pacman,

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/d...=1148911739000

The lawyer representing one of the men confirmed on Monday that his client had filed a complaint against the minister for slander, defamatory remarks, offensive language and violation of a person's rights.
So Blocher is no longer the Justice minister... But the Slander Minister!!!
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Old 13.12.2007, 16:04
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/d...=1148911739000

The Swiss justice minister, Christoph Blocher, is facing criminal charges after claiming in a speech that two Albanians seeking asylum were lawbreakers.
Thanks for the link. It also reports:

The charges were filed following a speech made by Blocher to the Zurich section of his rightwing People's Party in January.

Question. In the UK, there exists something called "Parliamentary Privilege", which allows MPs to make slanderous accusations in a speech to Parliament itself, although they would be subject to prosecution if the same speech were made outside Parliament.

Is there a similar notion in Switzerland? I.e. if Blocher had made the speech in the Bundesrat itself, would he have been exempt from prosecution?

P.S. After over-exposure to politics when I was in the UK, I largely ignored Swiss politics until the black sheep business raised its head.
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Old 13.12.2007, 16:04
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

These are funny too:





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  #79  
Old 13.12.2007, 17:01
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

I'm really curious about the new SVP opposition politics. Will all SVP members in the ministeries resign? Will I find a new initiative in my letter box every week? The Swiss system isn't designed for oppositions, they have no privileges of any kind. No wonder some cantonal parties disagree with the decision.

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Thanks for the link. It also reports:

The charges were filed following a speech made by Blocher to the Zurich section of his rightwing People's Party in January.

Question. In the UK, there exists something called "Parliamentary Privilege", which allows MPs to make slanderous accusations in a speech to Parliament itself, although they would be subject to prosecution if the same speech were made outside Parliament.

Is there a similar notion in Switzerland? I.e. if Blocher had made the speech in the Bundesrat itself, would he have been exempt from prosecution?
It's called parliamentary immunity here and comes in two flavors: Absolute immunity covers the statements made in parliament and commissions. Relative immunity covers actions that are linked to the political mandate of a person. Blocher's speech to his party falls in this category.

Last edited by Nathu; 13.12.2007 at 17:47.
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Old 13.12.2007, 17:40
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

People at my partner's work place are VERY VERY sad because their hero BlockHead is out
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