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  #81  
Old 13.12.2007, 17:51
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

Wow! Where does your partner work ?
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  #82  
Old 13.12.2007, 18:01
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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Wow! Where does your partner work ?
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  #83  
Old 13.12.2007, 18:07
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

I would think that getting him to split off and create his own party might well have been one of the goals of this little manouvre. It would be interesting and useful to know how much of the SVP/UDC voter base identifies with it as the "farmer's party" and how much identifies with the extremists. Certainly the nationalist wing wouldn't get anywhere near 30% of the vote.
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Old 13.12.2007, 18:19
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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I would think that getting him to split off and create his own party might well have been one of the goals of this little manouvre. It would be interesting and useful to know how much of the SVP/UDC voter base identifies with it as the "farmer's party" and how much identifies with the extremists. Certainly the nationalist wing wouldn't get anywhere near 30% of the vote.
I hope something like that happens as it will weaken the party.
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  #85  
Old 13.12.2007, 18:22
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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Wow! Where does your partner work ?
We don't want someone to loose their job do we?
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  #86  
Old 13.12.2007, 18:31
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

Didn't this also happen a few years back when Adolf Ogi retired, he was SVP and Blocher wanted Rita Führer to take his seat, they ended up with Samuel Schmidt from the Bern fraktion instead.
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  #87  
Old 13.12.2007, 18:36
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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I hope something like that happens as it will weaken the party.
I thought the SVP was already pretty split between the Bern fraktion (farmers) and the Zürich fraktion (far right) in any case.

Certainly when Ueli Maurer was talking about forcing Samuel Schmid out just after the election I thought then that this would cause a split, it looks as though the split is happening.
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Old 13.12.2007, 18:53
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

I think it'd be a really good thing for Swiss politics. Right now it's hard to tell how strong the nationalists actually are since the UDC gets voters from both factions. Spliting them apart would clarify the situation, and also deprive people like Blocher of the big voting block. Of course that means he'll probably resist.
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Old 13.12.2007, 19:05
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

I've been following this with quite some interest - nobody (as far as I know) expected this to happen... Hope? Yes sure, but it actually happening... this will be one of my fondest memory of Swiss Politics!

I do hope that SVP/UDC will split. I'm sure the more moderate part will be able to contribute a lot to todays politics (even though I still consider them more right-wing). The SVP as it is now is only a party of loudmouths, not sure what the appropriate wording in English would be for that, I know though that there are a few good people in there that just have been pushed in the background and desperately need to get out there to show how real politics are done..

With Mörgeli, Blocher & Co. having their own little party/fraction it would free up the rest of the politicians and press to actually discuss serious politics and get something done (hopefully - they are politicians after all).. This all depends on the outcome of the next few days and weeks.

Phew... just happy that this is (almost) over now and we can get on with some normality!

Cheers
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  #90  
Old 13.12.2007, 23:36
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

Read 'Heute' on the way to the Christmas Party.

Looks like the SVP from Bern, Graubunden and Appenzell Ausserhoden will not go into the opposition. Interesting times in Swiss politics.
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  #91  
Old 14.12.2007, 00:42
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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Read 'Heute' on the way to the Christmas Party.

Looks like the SVP from Bern, Graubunden and Appenzell Ausserhoden will not go into the opposition. Interesting times in Swiss politics.
On the Tagesschau one of the leaders of a possible splinter faction from Bern said that the number of those willing to form a separate "group / faction" out of the Berner SVP was decreasing. We'll need to wait until next week to find out what will happen. The SVP leadership is being fairly strict in their attempt to maintain compliance among party members...

One woman from the Berner SVP was interviewed (either on the Tagesschau or Schweiz aktuell) saying that she didn't find the party's current internal behavior to be very democratic (this is a very "moderate" translation of what she said, i.e. I'm not going to use her slightly-out-of-proportion words, as I struggle to believe she'd be supported by many members in her party). So, some are definitely going to form a separate "group / faction" in parliament, but they're going to remain members of the SVP. The question is: How will the party leadership respond?

By the way, the NZZ had a very large article today in the Zurich section about how the SVP could still attempt to make Blocher a member of the Nationalrat (lower house of parliament)... A member of the SVP from Zurich could resign and the remaining SVP candidates on the party list could refrain / abstain from accepting the vacant seat. The uncertainty surrounding such an attempt centers upon just how "constitutional" this would be. I had actually mentioned such a possibility to my Swiss half -- before reading the paper -- and she had said that it wouldn't be possible. However, as this was discussed yesterday and not denied in conversations between the NZZ and the SVP (Ueli Mauer, among others), who knows what will happen, particularly after the events of today...

Edit: I left constitutional within quotation marks because I have not studied Swiss politics in depth. The article in the NZZ does not challenge this because of its constitutionality, but because of its rarity. The individual in charge of electoral information in the Statistical Department for the Canton of Zürich does not know of anything along these lines ever having occurred in the past in the canton. I had accidently merged the objections of my Swiss wife into my recollection of the article.
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  #92  
Old 14.12.2007, 01:04
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

election-bundesrat-inconnu-1.jpg Made me smile, but is it democratic?
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  #93  
Old 14.12.2007, 01:24
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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On the Tagesschau one of the leaders of a possible splinter faction from Bern said that the number of those willing to form a separate "group / faction" out of the Berner SVP was decreasing. We'll need to wait until next week to find out what will happen. The SVP leadership is being fairly strict in their attempt to maintain compliance among party members...
I've heard that, too, but apparently there are some legal problems in forming a splinter fraction... I don't doubt the required five dissents to form a fraction could be found.

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One woman from the Berner SVP was interviewed (either on the Tagesschau or Schweiz aktuell) saying that she didn't find the party's current internal behavior to be very democratic (this is a very "moderate" translation of what she said, i.e. I'm not going to use her slightly-out-of-proportion words, as I struggle to believe she'd be supported by many members in her party). So, some are definitely going to form a separate "group / faction" in parliament, but they're going to remain members of the SVP. The question is: How will the party leadership respond?
I've seen the discussion round this evening and for now, the party leaders are playing hardball. A bit surprising to me was the opinion of the liberal fraction leader Gutzwiler who, in my opinion, exaggerated the impact of an "opposition SVP".

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By the way, the NZZ had a very large article today in the Zurich section about how the SVP could still attempt to make Blocher a member of the Nationalrat (lower house of parliament)... A member of the SVP from Zurich could resign and the remaining SVP candidates on the party list could refrain / abstain from accepting the vacant seat. The uncertainty surrounding such an attempt centers upon just how "constitutional" this would be. I had actually mentioned such a possibility to my Swiss half -- before reading the paper -- and she had said that it wouldn't be possible. However, as this was discussed yesterday and not denied in conversations between the NZZ and the SVP (Ueli Mauer, among others), who knows what will happen, particularly after the events of today...
Many think about such games and since a national council membership isn't bound to a canton, Blocher could try this trick in any canton with SVP representation. DRS did a brief radio interview with the Zurich SVP Nationalrat who got elected with the weakest result. However he stated that he got elected with 140'000 votes and Blocher can naff off.

But even if successful, the other parties can legally oppose Blocher's entry and likely will.

I'm curious what function Blocher will fulfill in the SVP...
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  #94  
Old 14.12.2007, 02:07
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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Attachment 2089 Made me smile, but is it democratic?
What is "democratic" per se? I know we agree, but I feel like a tiny rant.

The Swiss people spoke... and they wanted Blocher elected? I am sorry, but they voted for individual candidates and cantonal parties. They did not elect an individual to become a member of the Federal Council. We are not in a normal parliamentary system. In Switzerland the election of Federal Councilors occurs through the two chambers of parliament. It is supposed to be about finding a representative balance between the parties. Blocher tried to, and did, create a personality cult of sorts, in the sense that he became the national candidate of the party -- voting for the SVP was voting for Blocher. Were there not billboards that said exactly that? This is what members of all of the other parties -- FDP, CVP, SP, Greens, Green Liberals (ZH) -- objected to prior to the elections in October. Individuals, of course, are important in the districts and cantons... but they're not supposed to be the determining factor in national politics.

For those of you who read German, here is an article I enjoyed on the Tages Anzeiger website earlier this evening.

(Summary: "Abwahl liegt im Logik des Systems" / "Ejection is part of the logic of the system")
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  #95  
Old 14.12.2007, 08:16
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

The latest caricatures:

This one is rather bold:




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  #96  
Old 14.12.2007, 09:59
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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The latest caricatures:
I think "Anal ist Genial" says it all

Last edited by AbFab; 14.12.2007 at 10:02. Reason: cleaned up quote
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  #97  
Old 14.12.2007, 10:17
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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The Swiss people spoke... and they wanted Blocher elected? I am sorry, but they voted for individual candidates and cantonal parties. They did not elect an individual to become a member of the Federal Council. We are not in a normal parliamentary system. In Switzerland the election of Federal Councilors occurs through the two chambers of parliament. It is supposed to be about finding a representative balance between the parties. Blocher tried to, and did, create a personality cult of sorts, in the sense that he became the national candidate of the party -- voting for the SVP was voting for Blocher. Were there not billboards that said exactly that? This is what members of all of the other parties -- FDP, CVP, SP, Greens, Green Liberals (ZH) -- objected to prior to the elections in October. Individuals, of course, are important in the districts and cantons... but they're not supposed to be the determining factor in national politics.
Exactly. The SVP election campaign placed all of its focus on Blocher, even though direct voting of Blocher was only possible in his electorate (Zürich). And now that Blocher is out of the Bundesrat, that strategy has come around to bite the SVP on the arse - the centre of the SVP focus is gone (out of the Bundesrat, at least), the party plans to go into opposition, and there's some talk of a fractional split. This is a very different SVP to the jubilant and nigh-invulnerable party that we saw after the recent elections.

The SVP put all its eggs in one basket, and has now lost the basket. Bad strategy.

Of course, this won't be the end of the Blocherkult, but it will not exactly be the same as it once was.
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Old 14.12.2007, 10:27
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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Exactly. The SVP election campaign placed all of its focus on Blocher, even though direct voting of Blocher was only possible in his electorate (Zürich). And now that Blocher is out of the Bundesrat, that strategy has come around to bite the SVP on the arse - the centre of the SVP focus is gone (out of the Bundesrat, at least), the party plans to go into opposition, and there's some talk of a fractional split. This is a very different SVP to the jubilant and nigh-invulnerable party that we saw after the recent elections.
Blocher was not on a national council candidates list, even in Zurich.

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The SVP put all its eggs in one basket, and has now lost the basket. Bad strategy.
I'd say they decided to run over it in a steamroller because they didn't like the color of one egg...

Hmm the latest caricatures don't meet my taste, other than the first three.
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  #99  
Old 14.12.2007, 10:34
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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I'd say they decided to run over it in a steamroller because they didn't like the color of one egg...
See I was thinking more of him being the basket.. basket case that is
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  #100  
Old 14.12.2007, 10:39
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Re: Election of Bundesrat

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Blocher was not on a national council candidates list, even in Zurich.
Not even for the elections in October? Sorry, but I still haven't completely figured out how the political system works here.

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Hmm the latest caricatures don't meet my taste, other than the first three.
Some more can be found here at 20min.
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