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  #61  
Old 19.11.2012, 20:58
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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...through the walls...really?
ok, dents in the walls from punches...

Luis also had once beaten with bare fists several dents in the wall and smashed a door.
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Old 19.11.2012, 21:03
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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I don't actually think they spent any time at all. The just went to the crime scene, spoke to the neighbors & there you go. A news story fit to print.

Please don't ask them to do any actually investigation work. It will hurt their head.
More or less how I see it as well. I don't think it is a man vs women thing rather once again lazy/trash journalism. I had a rant on here after the bus accident which killed many belgium children. They really dragged the driver through dirt. First they spread unfounded rumours of him speeding, then they were again wrongly saying he got distracted because he was putting on a video. Once that didn't stick they speculated about tiredness, alcohol, lack of experience etc. Nothing stuck. The signs so far suggest that it was a tragic human error. You could almost feel the journalists pain after every possible cause for outrage was proven to be wrong.

Here it's just the same lazy journalism using lazy cliches/prejudices.

What I've taken from this is a woman shot her boyfriend. The details will hopefully come out within the next few weeks but most of what is written is shit stirring which happens regardless of the gender of people involved and trying to get the readers all emotional to boost reading numbers (which obviously worked)
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  #63  
Old 19.11.2012, 22:09
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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ok, dents in the walls from punches...

Luis also had once beaten with bare fists several dents in the wall and smashed a door.
WOW REALLY!?

Persons like this we can't have running around...
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  #64  
Old 19.11.2012, 22:14
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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It's extremely clearly written in the article that a 31-year old swiss woman shot a brazilian man.
Five times, and killed him.

Tom
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Old 19.11.2012, 22:46
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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Now I am speculating, but I believe that man had some...women...and it was a classic case of "jealousy drama"...

Also the woman had no bruises on her, i.e. there was no signs of domestic violence...

Yes. The fairly accurate and balanced article in Tages Anzeiger mentions the point that the victim had many "affairs" with various women not as justification of the killing but as part of the motivation of that jealous woman.

Her lawyer, that is not speculation but already clear, will try to get through with "Mord im Affekt", which means NON-planned murder out of being excited. The prosecution however will opt to accuse her of brutal unjustified murder out of "niedrigen Beweggründen" (low motivations).

Bad for her will be the number of shots fired. The prosecution will go for this aspect. And will emphasize that the murder cannot be justified at all, and was, as the number of shots show, cold-blooded intentional murder. Which means that many years behind bars await the woman.
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Old 19.11.2012, 22:56
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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Not going to agree or disagree with you, just impressed by your groan to post ratio.
At the moment the OP's summary lists 6 posts, and groaned at 21 times in 15 posts, so has he managed to delete 9 posts?

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  #67  
Old 19.11.2012, 23:27
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

even for those who don't read or write German, the picture of the victim chosen for the article is all you need to see to know the kind of journalism involved.
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Old 19.11.2012, 23:50
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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At the moment the OP's summary lists 6 posts, and groaned at 21 times in 15 posts, so has he managed to delete 9 posts?
No, they were moved to off topic, and thus don't count, but the groans, etc. remain.

Anyway, what's that to do with the object of the post?

Tom
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  #69  
Old 20.11.2012, 08:52
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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even for those who don't read or write German, the picture of the victim chosen for the article is all you need to see to know the kind of journalism involved.
The picture shows a very strong man, A real sportsman. Nothing really negative. I am not astonished that the journalists were impressed (particularily the women in the team ! ) The article btw. clearly mentions that he is described as calm and friendly and with a good command of German. He in the article is praised to have been, with his 130 kilos, a fighter on the highest level. Also that a colleague wrote "we all think of you .... your were a crazy and great fighter ..... you brought us into laughters ... I will never forget you " . The article of Stefan Hohler is the kind of journalism which is to be praised. Praised for balanced views, objective reporting and love for details.
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Old 20.11.2012, 10:00
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

Here is the 20 minutes version of the story today, for what it is worth.

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich/...-aus--23156831
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Old 20.11.2012, 10:05
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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He in the article is praised to have been, with his 130 kilos, a fighter on the highest level. Also that a colleague wrote "we all think of you .... your were a crazy and great fighter ..... you brought us into laughters ... I will never forget you " . The article of Stefan Hohler is the kind of journalism which is to be praised. Praised for balanced views, objective reporting and love for details.
But aren't those the messages from friends and not the article itself?
I am guessing for the last part you are being sarcastic??
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Old 20.11.2012, 10:28
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

And everyone here is acting like that man couldn't have possibly have any friends in here. Why, because he is Brazillian, or a fighter? Because we do get influenced by poorly written article?

Leave it alone, he has just died. We cannot base our assumptions on some wacky journalism, nor should we speculate here. When his nearest ones might not even know yet, maybe can't even come here right away, I doubt authorities are able to inform them in details yet and all they will see in their desperate internet search for more info, is a bad thread here, full of undignified comments and attempts for ill timed and inaccurate anthropological pseudodebate.

Somebody has just been killed. Give that case an amnesty for some time, out of respect.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 20.11.2012 at 10:46.
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  #73  
Old 20.11.2012, 10:34
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

I saw on TV last night that his friends are collecting money to pay for his burial. It would be a nice gesture if some of the media who are getting such mileage out of this story actually made a contribution to this fund.
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  #74  
Old 20.11.2012, 10:39
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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I am guessing for the last part you are being sarcastic??
How so?

Tom
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  #75  
Old 20.11.2012, 11:02
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

This is an amazing thread, even by EF standards.

I think a mod should take it under their wing and do a thread split:

1) Juan Sanchez Villalobos - amazing chap, amazing groan ratio, but where are his missing posts? (note: to Sbrinz: maybe a mod deleted them because they were offensive?)

2) Misandry in society: is it really there or are these people just needing a girlfriend?

3) The death of Luis C - was it justified?

4) the reporting standards of 20-min vs. EF - because let's face it, the standard of comments is about similar to that of 20-min, as nobody here really knows what happened or why... all we know is that some 34-year-old Brazilian dude called Luis C, got shot, 5 times, and died. This was done by a Swiss woman aged 31. For certain, I can probably maybe say that one of the five bullets killed him.

Just a suggestion...

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Last edited by Carlos R; 20.11.2012 at 11:19. Reason: typo fix
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  #76  
Old 20.11.2012, 11:08
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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This is an amazing thread, even by EF standards.

I think a mod should take it under their wing and do a thread split:
1) Juan Sanchez Villalobos
2) Misandry in society
3) The death of Luis C
4) the reporting standards of 20 mins. vs. EF - because let's face it, the standard of comments is about similar to that of 20 mins, as nobody here really knows what happened or why... all we know is that some 34 year olf Brazilian dude called Luis C, got shot, 5 times, and died. This was done by a Swiss woman aged 31. For certain, I can probably maybe say that one of the five bullets killed him.

Just a suggestion...

It was the connection hinted at by OP with the lack of sensitivity (should I be amazed? nope) of the reporting and misandry and saying that the western world overvalues women (). I see absolutely no connection. The only thing I can think of is that it was a crime of passion, the journalists just interviewed someone on scene and then proceeded to make silly judgements like he had a frivolous lifestyle etc.
Totally tasteless and mostly unfounded but my surprise was at the OPs conclusions and the further silly videos...
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  #77  
Old 20.11.2012, 11:43
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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Here is the 20 minutes version of the story today, for what it is worth.

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich/...-aus--23156831
It shows that many women found him attractive. And that many walls no longer are what they should be

************************************

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But aren't those the messages from friends and not the article itself?
I am guessing for the last part you are being sarcastic??
It was IN the article, but of course the statement of a friend. The journalist had not known him while alive. But found it worth to include in his article

**********************************************

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And everyone here is acting like that man couldn't have possibly have any friends in here. Why, because he is Brazillian, or a fighter? Because we do get influenced by poorly written article?

Leave it alone, he has just died. We cannot base our assumptions on some wacky journalism, nor should we speculate here. When his nearest ones might not even know yet, maybe can't even come here right away, I doubt authorities are able to inform them in details yet and all they will see in their desperate internet search for more info, is a bad thread here, full of undignified comments and attempts for ill timed and inaccurate anthropological pseudodebate.

Somebody has just been killed. Give that case an amnesty for some time, out of respect.
The article in Tages Anzeiger was excellently written, the one in 20MIN was NOT poorly written but to the point. And was NOT against the victim, but explained the problem in question. I now have read BOTH aricles and can clearly say that NEITHER was "wacky" journalism. The 20MIN piece quite obviously however was shortened by the chief-editor-in-charge to fit into the available space. And shortening articles is a very difficult matter.

**************


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It was the connection hinted at by OP with the lack of sensitivity (should I be amazed? nope) of the reporting and misandry and saying that the western world overvalues women (). I see absolutely no connection. The only thing I can think of is that it was a crime of passion, the journalists just interviewed someone on scene and then proceeded to make silly judgements like he had a frivolous lifestyle etc.
Totally tasteless and mostly unfounded but my surprise was at the OPs conclusions and the further silly videos...
Neither the article of Tages Anzeiger nor the one of 20MIN mentioned anything about "overvalues women". Neither journalist made "judgements" but both simply wrote what is obvious. YES, the man HAD many lovers. This is not sensational, but may have contributed to the conflict.

I am so sorry, but increasingly have the impression that we have two journalists who did their job quite well and readers who do not carefully read what is written.

Bad was the headline of 20MIN, however headlines are NOT made by the journalists but by headline-makers and so are not connected.

******************
And while the Staatsanwaltschaft has to find out the full details, the matter is such, beyond speculation, already is clear.

Last edited by Wollishofener; 20.11.2012 at 11:59.
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Old 20.11.2012, 11:58
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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It was the connection hinted at by OP with the lack of sensitivity (should I be amazed? nope) of the reporting and misandry and saying that the western world overvalues women (). I see absolutely no connection. The only thing I can think of is that it was a crime of passion, the journalists just interviewed someone on scene and then proceeded to make silly judgements like he had a frivolous lifestyle etc.
Totally tasteless and mostly unfounded but my surprise was at the OPs conclusions and the further silly videos...
Fair enough, and I agree, but for the sake of discussion I think the OP made some strong statements to provoke a discussion.
If this was a situation where a female was beaten to death by her boyfriend, would the same journalist write the story commenting on the frivilous lifestyle of the women from hearsay? I would wager that there's more of a chance, that the shock-style journalism would take the route of commenting on domestic abuse and keeping women safe.

Regardless of the provocative intentions of this thread, sensitivity should be shown to the victim and their family.
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  #79  
Old 20.11.2012, 12:03
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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Fair enough, and I agree, but for the sake of discussion I think the OP made some strong statements to provoke a discussion.
If this was a situation where a female was beaten to death by her boyfriend, would the same journalist write the story commenting on the frivilous lifestyle of the women from hearsay? I would wager that there's more of a chance, that the shock-style journalism would take the route of commenting on domestic abuse and keeping women safe.

Regardless of the provocative intentions of this thread, sensitivity should be shown to the victim and their family.
Sensitivity should be shown by the public (readers) towards the victims, his wider family and his friends. And I think, reading reports carefully is of paramount importance. And this is the duty of the readers, in other words of all of us.
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Old 20.11.2012, 12:04
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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It was the connection hinted at by OP with the lack of sensitivity (should I be amazed? nope) of the reporting and misandry and saying that the western world overvalues women
While the overvaluing of women is somewhat of a stretch, I see the point about misandry. The article should make absolutely no mention of the victim's lovelife, and NEVER would have done so had the victim been a woman. I can't even imagine the global shitstorm that would result had gender been reversed with the same stupid headlines.

"Woman shot 5 times by boyfriend, neighbors claim she was a slut."
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