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  #81  
Old 20.11.2012, 12:12
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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Regardless of the provocative intentions of this thread, sensitivity should be shown to the victim and their family.
This I agree with 100%
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  #82  
Old 20.11.2012, 12:14
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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While the overvaluing of women is somewhat of a stretch, I see the point about misandry. The article should make absolutely no mention of the victim's lovelife, and NEVER would have done so had the victim been a woman. I can't even imagine the global shitstorm that would result had gender been reversed with the same stupid headlines.

"Woman shot 5 times by boyfriend, neighbors claim she was a slut."
Again, the headlines are NOT part of the actual reporting. Headlines are made by headline-makers who often did not ever really see the article. This is the reason why headlines and articles sometimes contradict each other.

That the lovelife of female victims is NOT reported by the media is wrong. It IS reported, for instance when a woman who fully or part-time was a prostitute, or did anything else out of the standard pattern. Add to this that all journalists know not only that the readers are interested, but that such circumstances ARE important. In this case, jealousy WAS of relevance. How and to what extent is of course subject of the investigations. There will be further details once the killer gets sentenced.
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Old 20.11.2012, 12:18
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

Wolli when I said 'overvaluing of women', I was referring to a comment of the original post.
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  #84  
Old 20.11.2012, 12:21
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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While the overvaluing of women is somewhat of a stretch, I see the point about misandry. The article should make absolutely no mention of the victim's lovelife, and NEVER would have done so had the victim been a woman. I can't even imagine the global shitstorm that would result had gender been reversed with the same stupid headlines.

"Woman shot 5 times by boyfriend, neighbors claim she was a slut."
*Sigh*

But that's the truth, isn't it.

If a man has sex with lots of women he's a stud. If the role is reversed, she's a slut. So now that someone has said the opposite (not that this is deserving of being killed), there's a shit-storm on EF and in the OP's life?

Am I the only one to see the irony in this?

I said I wouldn't but my resolve has weakened - in the OP's video of missandry, they go on and on about the lack of mention of men, the problem is that the default for many such situations that were cut in the newsreals are for "men".

When you say:
Police officer
Soldier
Officer
Dr
Surgeon
Miner
Garbage engineer
Engineer
Fireperson (-man)
Seaman *snigger*
Sailor

You (I certainly do) automatically think man, thus the woman is the exception and worthy of the mention. That says more about the standing of women in society and the length of the "chain" that keeps them in home than any media-fuelled missandry agenda (and for the record, MS word also struggles with licence - is this also an issue that means something?). I don't deny that it exists, sure it does, just discrimination or hatred of many other groups, like women, blacks, whites, yellow, straight, gay, ausslander - whatever group you wish to choose. But that it is systemic? C'mon, that's just paranoia talking because in the last 150 years of our 50,000 year history, women are not being put down quite as vigorously as before...

And as for the "you never see garbage women" - that's a load of...er...emm... garbage. I've seen several in Basel, but yes they are probably "under-represented", but seriously, do you think they care?
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  #85  
Old 20.11.2012, 12:21
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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Again, the headlines are NOT part of the actual reporting. Headlines are made by headline-makers who often did not ever really see the article. This is the reason why headlines and articles sometimes contradict each other.

That the lovelife of female victims is NOT reported by the media is wrong. It IS reported, for instance when a woman who fully or part-time was a prostitute, or did anything else out of the standard pattern. Add to this that all journalists know not only that the readers are interested, but that such circumstances ARE important. In this case, jealousy WAS of relevance. How and to what extent is of course subject of the investigations. There will be further details once the killer gets sentenced.

I would also have to comment on a victims lovelife and a victim being a full/part time prostitute are not equivalently comparable (if at all).
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Old 20.11.2012, 12:22
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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While the overvaluing of women is somewhat of a stretch, I see the point about misandry. The article should make absolutely no mention of the victim's lovelife, and NEVER would have done so had the victim been a woman. I can't even imagine the global shitstorm that would result had gender been reversed with the same stupid headlines.

"Woman shot 5 times by boyfriend, neighbors claim she was a slut."
Bollox, they would mention possible motives, and you know it, if a woman was having an affair, it would be mentioned, marital difficulties, you bet, if she was a prostitute, it would be mentioned, and probably a stock pic attached, if she was hot, move to front page, all the better with some sordid love life to go over.
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Old 20.11.2012, 12:34
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

Hate to say it, but from what little I know about this unfortunate event, the only thing that keeps coming to my mind is the Edouard Stern-Cecile B case.
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  #88  
Old 20.11.2012, 13:48
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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Bollox, they would mention possible motives, and you know it, if a woman was having an affair, it would be mentioned, marital difficulties, you bet, if she was a prostitute, it would be mentioned, and probably a stock pic attached, if she was hot, move to front page, all the better with some sordid love life to go over.
No they wouldn't!

Think Yorkshire Ripper, Crossbow Canibal, I don't see anyone referring to the prostitutes they killed in a negative way... They were just "Vulnerable Victimes" which they are, but men are supposed to be tough so noone should refer to them as a victim.

Anyway here is another one I saw today on nothing less but the DM (Shock and horror)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ctim-600k.html

Imagine if it was the woman fleecing the man out of his money... It would be "Femme fatal who FEECED Gullible Predatory Man of his Money"... and guess what the comments would say:

"You go girl! Givem a taste of their own medecine!"

"Girl Power!"

"A fool and his money..."

Bias against men is there to stay, just deal with it boys and girls But to completely say it doesn't exist is rediculous
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Old 20.11.2012, 13:56
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

I didn't read all five pages of the thread but I have some inside Info:
A work colleague of mine was a good friend of this brazilian guy.
It seems that -even if he was involved in some "red light district" stuff- he was a decent guy who would never have hurt a woman.
or anybody else who didn't deserve it...
Just if anybody is interested...
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Old 20.11.2012, 13:58
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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-even if he was involved in some "red light district" stuff-
That's it ladies and gents!

He was P.I.M.P!
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Old 20.11.2012, 13:59
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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That's it ladies and gents!

He was P.I.M.P!
really? so not funny...seriously...
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  #92  
Old 20.11.2012, 14:02
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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I would also have to comment on a victims lovelife and a victim being a full/part time prostitute are not equivalently comparable (if at all).
But of interest to the media and the customers. And if a murdered woman was manager of a bordello it WILL be mentioned (was in a case some years back) in fullest possible details.
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Old 20.11.2012, 14:05
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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really? so not funny...seriously...
It's not hence the correction of the smiley, it's just ironic that someone would mention that in the same sentence as saying he was a nice guy...

Yeh nice guy, but he was a PIMP...
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Old 20.11.2012, 14:10
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

And here the latest news about it (source NZZ)

Am Samstag war ein 34-jähriger Brasilianer bei einem Streit in Zürich Affoltern erschossen worden. Am Montag hat eine 31-jährige Schweizerin gestanden, mehrere Schüsse auf den Mann abgegeben zu haben.

Der zuständige Staatsanwalt Matthias Stammbach bestätigt eine entsprechende Meldung der Nachrichtenagentur SDA. Die Staatsanwaltschaft hat Untersuchungshaft für die Frau beantragt. Das Tötungsdelikt ereignete sich am Samstagabend. Laut Angaben der Polizei kam es in einer Wohnung an der Wehntalerstrasse in Zürich Affoltern zunächst zu einem verbalen Streit, der schliesslich eskalierte. Der Brasilianer erlag seinen Verletzungen noch am Tatort. Die Frau wurde vor Ort verhaftet.
Laut Medienberichten waren Täterin und Opfer ein Paar, bei der Tat soll es sich um ein Beziehungsdelikt gehandelt haben. Staatsanwalt Stammbach kommentierte diese Berichte aus ermittlungstaktischen Gründen nicht. Beim Opfer handelt es sich um einen einen erfolgreichen Kampfsportler. In einem Nachruf einer deutschen Website für Kampfsport wird der Verstorbene als Pionier der Szene gewürdigt, der internationale Erfolge gefeiert habe.


- The woman has admitted the killing
- The woman was taken into custody
- The woman now is taken into investigation-arrest
- The prosecutor does NOT comment media reports
- In a German WEBsite for martial arts, the victim was
praised as a pioneer, who had international successes


here some links
http://www.kampfkunst-board.info/for...rieden-151254/
http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/zue...id2110299.html
http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/zue...id2111600.html

Last edited by Wollishofener; 20.11.2012 at 14:28.
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Old 20.11.2012, 14:12
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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No they wouldn't!

Think Yorkshire Ripper, Crossbow Canibal, I don't see anyone referring to the prostitutes they killed in a negative way... They were just "Vulnerable Victimes" which they are, but men are supposed to be tough so noone should refer to them as a victim.
You're comparing to a serial killer, and to make what point? Were they not reported as prostitutes? it's lucky anyone noticed, because you normally don't get so much news coverage if it's prostitutes that are killed, unless it's more than one.

You made a point earlier that you seemed upset that women wouldn't be referred to as sluts, what is the male equivalent of the word slut that has the same connotations? Go do a google image search on womaniser, google slut without safe search, see the difference?

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Anyway here is another one I saw today on nothing less but the DM (Shock and horror)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ctim-600k.html

Imagine if it was the woman fleecing the man out of his money... It would be "Femme fatal who FEECED Gullible Predatory Man of his Money"... and guess what the comments would say:

"You go girl! Givem a taste of their own medecine!"

"Girl Power!"

"A fool and his money..."

Bias against men is there to stay, just deal with it boys and girls But to completely say it doesn't exist is rediculous
Uhmmmm, isn't that what the comments say now, about the woman? What point are you trying to make?
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Old 20.11.2012, 14:17
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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Yeh nice guy, but he was a PIMP...
Now it's getting really disgusting. You'd better shut up. Media coverage was shitty, now we have some idiots on here who do exactly the same.
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Old 20.11.2012, 14:25
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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But of interest to the media and the customers. And if a murdered woman was manager of a bordello it WILL be mentioned (was in a case some years back) in fullest possible details.
True, however there is a distinction between employment and personal love life. (Perhaps they were intertwined in this case, but that's totally speculation and not mentioned in the original article) How it reads, is that a person killed another person, the victim was implied to potentially be of poor character in monogamous relationship performance. If a scenario was employment dependent it might have read: Boss shoots and kills employee---the victim was known to have performed poorly at their job etc. etc. Such details would also be of poor journalism IMO but could still be of interest to the reader. My opinion, it's the court's business, not the reader's business, the article should have been written in more of a factual account of known details at the time.
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Old 20.11.2012, 14:38
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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My opinion, it's the court's business, not the reader's business, the article should have been written in more of a factual account of known details at the time.
I think most coming from an anglosaxon background prefer a more factual presentation and the media not to draw conclusions.

However, over many many years of reading swiss media, I find this very typical of the media coverage here. It gets the point across, ie. that there was a violent crime committed; yet it also calms or puts it in perspective for the population, ie. old swiss granny does not have to worry about some wacko random murderer, as this was clearly linked to a foreigner whose, lets say habits, contributed to his demise. They want to let people know that it is still safe to walk to Migros and this was an isolated situation related to specific events. Still wanting to preserve the notion that CH is safe, and these incidents are isolated to specific events.
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Old 20.11.2012, 14:39
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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True, however there is a distinction between employment and personal love life. (Perhaps they were intertwined in this case, but that's totally speculation and not mentioned in the original article) How it reads, is that a person killed another person, the victim was implied to potentially be of poor character in monogamous relationship performance. If a scenario was employment dependent it might have read: Boss shoots and kills employee---the victim was known to have performed poorly at their job etc. etc. Such details would also be of poor journalism IMO but could still be of interest to the ready. My opinion, it's the court's business, not the reader's business, the article should have been written in more of a factual account of known details at the time.
He is not reported to have been "of poor character" as being a womanizer does not mean anything about character, only that he had many girlfriends. The media simply reported, as usual, what is known. The matter now is in the hands of the prosecution. It right now is described as "Tötungs-Delikt" until the investigation comes to a conclusion.

To jump to the thing above, there is absolutely no hint of him having been a "pimp".

Bad for police and the prosecution was that the witness and the "Hauswart" could not be stopped from talking with the media.
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Old 20.11.2012, 14:44
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Re: Brasilian guy shot by ex-girlfriend, portrayed as "womanizer" and "kickboxer"

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Crimes of passion are pretty common, it might be proved later that this was one of them and there was no domestic violence, but for now they are all speculations. Whatever happened, the bottom line is that nobody deserves to be killed
Some people do actually!
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