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  #181  
Old 23.11.2012, 10:11
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

So amused reading all this...as we'll be going to OH's Heimatort this weekend to see his brother...who still lives there.

And at the apero the other night (see my other post), learned that one of our neighbors *struggled* with the idea of moving to our village from his Heimatort, because we're like...5 KMs away!!
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  #182  
Old 23.11.2012, 10:15
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

people take things far too seriously on this forum, either the OP is a wind up merchant or likes a bit of confrontation .

given some posters, its sooooooo easy to do both
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  #183  
Old 23.11.2012, 10:24
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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So amused reading all this...as we'll be going to OH's Heimatort this weekend to see his brother...who still lives there.

And at the apero the other night (see my other post), learned that one of our neighbors *struggled* with the idea of moving to our village from his Heimatort, because we're like...5 KMs away!!
Glad it's not just me who has experienced this...
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  #184  
Old 23.11.2012, 16:45
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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This melody in fact brought me and a few years later a colleague to the brink of a heart attack. I on a holiday trip had arrived in a Sana'a hotel (2150m above sea-level) and when in the room suddenly heard this melody and thought This is the beginning ...... just think of all family members and friends as long as you can and then went down and realized that it was the Presidential March of the President of the Yemen Arab Republic. Years later, the colleague, a commercial pilot, arrived in an Aden hotel (crater of Aden some 5 meters BELOW sea-level) and when in his room heard this melody and thought this must be the beginning of the end and then also found out about it. The only difference was that the Yemenis had "changed" the president by liquidating Mr al-Ghashmi and elevating General Abdullah Saleh into the jump-seat ... sorry I mean TOP seat !
Quite a lot of melodies are shared or borrowed.

The Swiss used to (and the Liechtensteiners still do) use the melody of God Save the Queen. Further back in history the Germans and French also used it. The Dutch national anthem shares its tune with an SS march (and quite a few victims of the Nazis have been mistakenly shocked when hearing it), and the Star Spangled Banner was originally (and to some extent still is) a British regimental marching tune that in turn was borrowed from the anthem of a once prestigious London club. The European anthem, based on Beethoven's Ode to Joy was the melody of the Rhodesian anthem prior to majority rule, and today many Zimbabweans still associate it with white supremacism which can lead to misunderstandings when dealing with Europe. In fact on at least one occasion there were protests against performances of Beethoven's Ode to Joy.
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  #185  
Old 24.11.2012, 09:24
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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History is something fun to chat about. In the village I live in, half of it belonged to the Eidgenossen and the other half to the Hapsburg's. I could even show you the wall they built to define the border.
Imagine that the HABSBURG, where all those German and Austrian Emperors originated from is now owned by the Kanton Aargau
http://www.schlosshabsburg.ch/


and the homes of former Habsburger dukes like those von Bonstetten + von Kyburg + von Herblingen + von Klingen (Hohenklingen=Stein-am-Rhein long ago have become cultural Swiss heritage, mostly owned now by towns and cities and cantons
example: Burg Hohenklingen
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  #186  
Old 24.11.2012, 09:31
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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Yes, yes Wolli. I'll just go mention that to all the medical journals who publish in ENGLISH for the INTERNATIONAL community.

I can guarantee that any Dr in France, Germany, Switzerland and Italy will describe "Whites" as Caucasians in their publications.

I'll say it again - it depends what your reference point is. As this is what I do day-in day-out, I use the term Caucasian to mean "White". (As do the French, German, Italy, Spanish, Austrian, Dutch, Swedish, Belgian, Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh Drs I work with - note: I've not worked with anyone from Luxembourg, but as soon as I do, I'll let you know.)

Re. Heimatort - maybe all the people I spoke to about this were born in their Heimatort

But re the Americans saying they are from Ireland - I agree it's about the same thing

Anybody talkiing German will either say "White" (race) or Indo-German (scientific race). Nobody here will use the term Kaukasisch unless speaking about Kaukasier, and nobody in Russia will do so unless being in a suicidal mood. No Sir, the term in reality is absolutely WRONG in the way you apparently use it.
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  #187  
Old 24.11.2012, 09:42
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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So amused reading all this...as we'll be going to OH's Heimatort this weekend to see his brother...who still lives there.

And at the apero the other night (see my other post), learned that one of our neighbors *struggled* with the idea of moving to our village from his Heimatort, because we're like...5 KMs away!!
I had a grand aunt whose house in Stein am Rhein needed renovation and was given temporary home at my grandparents in Schaffhausen. But each evening stood at a window in the first floor looking out towards the "mountain" with Hohenklingen-Castle on its top which overlooks Stein-am-Rhein. She could never understand how my grandfather managed to live in such foreignish places like Basel, Paris, Geneva, Zürich and Schaffhausen

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  #188  
Old 24.11.2012, 10:00
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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Quite a lot of melodies are shared or borrowed.

The Swiss used to (and the Liechtensteiners still do) use the melody of God Save the Queen. Further back in history the Germans and French also used it. The Dutch national anthem shares its tune with an SS march (and quite a few victims of the Nazis have been mistakenly shocked when hearing it), and the Star Spangled Banner was originally (and to some extent still is) a British regimental marching tune that in turn was borrowed from the anthem of a once prestigious London club. The European anthem, based on Beethoven's Ode to Joy was the melody of the Rhodesian anthem prior to majority rule, and today many Zimbabweans still associate it with white supremacism which can lead to misunderstandings when dealing with Europe. In fact on at least one occasion there were protests against performances of Beethoven's Ode to Joy.
What became a kind of national anthem in Zürich of course originally was a military march in the Russian Empire, than was taken over by Germans and finally brought to Zürich my military musiicians from Kolmar/Elsass-Lothringen. And the German National Anthem

can hardly reveal its orgin

In Switzerland, there are TWO national anthems, the OFFICIAL and still rather detested one and the still popular old one (here the Italian version)


while I would prefer the melody which was the favourite of Henri Guisan

or melodies like


or
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  #189  
Old 24.11.2012, 10:02
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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Anybody talkiing German will either say "White" (race) or Indo-German (scientific race). Nobody here will use the term Kaukasisch unless speaking about Kaukasier, and nobody in Russia will do so unless being in a suicidal mood. No Sir, the term in reality is absolutely WRONG in the way you apparently use it.
Not in English, it isn't.

(and don't get me started on that absurd term "US-Americans"...)
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  #190  
Old 24.11.2012, 10:05
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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Not in English, it isn't.

(and don't get me started on that absurd term "US-Americans"...)
The term, as widespread as it may be in Britain and its dominions (to avoid the disliked term ) it factualy is absolute rubbish
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  #191  
Old 24.11.2012, 10:07
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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The term, as widespread as it may be in Britain and its dominions (to avoid the disliked term ) it factualy is absolute rubbish
So is "white".
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  #192  
Old 24.11.2012, 10:16
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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So is "white".
correct for sure. But difficult to replace. "Europeans" is not much better. I when in Nouakchott talking to a French member of the embassy-staff there (at a party of the German embassy) needed a while to realize that her "black&white" analogy referred to White (Arab) Mauritanians and the Black Mauritanians.
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Old 24.11.2012, 10:21
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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correct for sure. But difficult to replace. "Europeans" is not much better. I when in Nouakchott talking to a French member of the embassy-staff there (at a party of the German embassy) needed a while to realize that her "black&white" analogy referred to White (Arab) Mauritanians and the Black Mauritanians.
So you'd agree that our use of language is fundamentally arbitrary, determined merely by convention and that, therefore, the use of "Caucasian" to mean a particular human race in English is no more absurd than the use of "White" to mean the same?
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  #194  
Old 24.11.2012, 10:29
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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So you'd agree that our use of language is fundamentally arbitrary, determined merely by convention and that, therefore, the use of "Caucasian" to mean a particular human race in English is no more absurd than the use of "White" to mean the same?
Oh man. I read that three times and I still don't know what you're saying. Good use of "fundamentally arbitrary" and "determined merely by convention" though. However, this reader is at a loss at what you're trying to express.
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Old 24.11.2012, 10:39
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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Oh man. I read that three times and I still don't know what you're saying. Good use of "fundamentally arbitrary" and "determined merely by convention" though. However, this reader is at a loss at what you're trying to express.
I'm saying that "Caucasian" isn't any sillier than "White".
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  #196  
Old 24.11.2012, 10:43
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

Taken from dear Wiki:
The term Caucasian race (also Caucasoid, Europid, or Europoid)[1] has been used to denote the general physical type of some or all of the populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, Western Asia,parts of Central Asia and South Asia.[2] Historically, the term has been used to describe many peoples from these regions, without regard necessarily to skin tone.[3]
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Old 24.11.2012, 11:02
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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As I have already said - I am against the dilution of culture, and I firmly believe that large amounts of immigrants from starkly differing social adherences as well as cultural differences ultimately leads to just that - the dilution and eventual disappearance of social and cultural diversity which is a beautiful thing!
All of your your beautiful 'pure' cultures are a result of waves of immigration, mixing of cultures and nationalities and tribes, due to warfare, rape, immigration, etc. etc.

Race is a fiction, real only in the minds of people who divide other people up racially.

I also believe immigration should be controlled and that encouraging integration and education on the sides of the incomers and the population is a good thing. But this vision of pure cultures remaining distinct reminds me of a rather unpleasant period in our recent history, which unfortunately we are bound to repeat, sooner than later if we follow your line of reasoning and your world view.
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Old 24.11.2012, 11:16
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

After 10 pages of discussion, nobody has answered EAB's original question.

The parties he should consider voting for with his views are:

Swiss Democrats
SVP
BDP
FDP (Right Wing)

I do not encourage anybody to vote for the first two on this list.

Thank you
Tom
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  #199  
Old 24.11.2012, 12:43
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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So you'd agree that our use of language is fundamentally arbitrary, determined merely by convention and that, therefore, the use of "Caucasian" to mean a particular human race in English is no more absurd than the use of "White" to mean the same?
No, I do NOT as I do NOT see any problem with WHITE-RUSSIA / Belarus, while the Caucasus is a region inhabited by "Whites" who are by average like people from the Mediterranean and so titled "Blacks" up in Moscow. "Blacks" in fact is equally bad, as both Black-Africans and Tamils are "black-skinned" (almost) and as "Black-Africans are partially Hamitic (Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea) .

Which means that I basically regard the whole "Black/White" terminology as rubbish and outdated, and might welcome if people realized that we no longer are in the days of Cecil Rhodes and Queen Victoria and Wilhelm II .
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Old 24.11.2012, 12:45
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Re: Which Swiss Party is Right for me?

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After 10 pages of discussion, nobody has answered EAB's original question.

The parties he should consider voting for with his views are:

Swiss Democrats
SVP
BDP
FDP (Right Wing)

I do not encourage anybody to vote for the first two on this list.

Thank you
Tom
No, I quite clearly much earlier stated that he should join the SVP, subscribe to Weltwoche, and participate in the annual SVP pilgrimage to Herrliberg
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