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  #61  
Old 05.12.2012, 01:11
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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Nope, I was pretty clear I drive in Zurich only outside peak hours, and comparing to New York and London (both of which I lived) to outside peak hours.

You CAN drive from LGA to Newark in 40 minutes but many times you can not. In fact last time I was in NY I would have been heading from LGA in the direction of Newark OUTSIDE peak times and waited 1 hour to move 100m. (the taxi driver should never have gone that way). Plan on that taking 40 minutes and you missed your flight.

This is only one example but I have many because I lived in New York and the traffic there OUTSIDE peak hours is way way worse than Zurich. I drove in NY in rush hour but always going against the trend but I've no experience of Zurich rush hour but then I would just take a train

And yes the bridges and tunnels are a major cause of traffic jams but not the only one. For instance I got stuck on the FDR/ East side in traffic for 2 hours because GW Bush was at the UN and they closed down a lot of streets/ avenues.
The 40mins drive was not planned. I only learnt at LGA that the flight of us was cancelled and that they had rebooked us onto the last Philadelphia-flight out of Newark. I had not yet handed back the rental car and as I on a previous trip had driven from Philadelphia to NYC had an emergency solution in my mind. I had a time frame of 120 minutes, and planned my changeover well. But was surprised how smoothly everything went, and this at around 21.30 . the President ? well, here, no roads get closed just because a Bundesrat is in a particular place
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  #62  
Old 05.12.2012, 01:37
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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Basel WILL BE on the list as soon as Basel builds an artificial lake the size of the Greifensee (Uster) or the Zugersee --- possibly to the south/southwest of the city
Gundelisee?

I'm not sure the residents of Bruderholz will fancy taking a hovercraft to Basel SBB, but it will please those who don't want to see BS and BL reunified if we have a moat between the two.
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  #63  
Old 05.12.2012, 04:32
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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And yes the bridges and tunnels are a major cause of traffic jams but not the only one. For instance I got stuck on the FDR/ East side in traffic for 2 hours because GW Bush was at the UN and they closed down a lot of streets/ avenues.
Well, what sort of guy takes the FDR when a president is in town? I'm sure that was pretty well advertised! Overall, NYC traffic is pretty easy. Only the cabbies are a PITA and, well, I can handle the honking and finger pointing. I spent an hour in Boston traffic tonight myself due to unusual needs and I do not understand what compels anyone sane to spend time in carriageway gridlock daily. Boston has lots of public transport and such, but the folks clogging the arteries heading north to NH...insane. At least with central cities, it moves most of the time. Love driving in NYC...especially since I never get lost there like I still do sometimes in Boston.

And Zurich can be gridlock at completely random times. I went to get my SiL from the airport last year sometime and it took hours...some tram accident (not unusual apparently) gummed up the works from 4 until 9 or some such. I should have told her to take the train as the 5yo in back was not very enthused about the boring traffic.
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  #64  
Old 05.12.2012, 07:57
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

London:
Area 1,570 km2 (607 sq mi)
Population 8,174,100

Zürich:
Area 87.88 km2 (33.93 sq mi)
Population 376,008

I mean how can you even compare that....


Source wiki btw.
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  #65  
Old 05.12.2012, 08:19
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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Gundelisee?

I'm not sure the residents of Bruderholz will fancy taking a hovercraft to Basel SBB, but it will please those who don't want to see BS and BL reunified if we have a moat between the two.
They will use a S-Bahn to Basel-SBB, just as those people in the Sihltal (Leimbach, Adliswil, Langnau) use the S-4 which after Selnau runs just below the Sihl-River
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  #66  
Old 05.12.2012, 08:34
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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I find it hard to believe that Zurich is listed so far down in the Infrastructure list? It has the best transport system I have ever experienced. Although London's may be extensive, surely its the great transport system here in Zurich and in Switzerland in general that contributes to Zurich being 2nd in the Quality of Living List?
If Zurich Trams are the best thing you have ever experienced do you really need to get out more. I moved from Zurich to Singapore and Zurich is not even in the same league... I used public transport in Switzerland a lot but never even dreamed about giving up my car. Because somebody decided to put most of the shopping places into some far out industrial areas nobody could reach on public transport... now I am a happy user of the #1 placed Singaporean mass rapid transport system and did not even bother to convert my driving license.

Zurich fully deserves some ok-ish place at best. The public transport is far from fast or efficient. That's not the Swiss' fault but simply a fact - Zurich is after all surrounded by a lake on one side and mountains on two more sides. Building a subways is simply the best when it comes to throughput of travellers a day and this is not really an option in Zurich. The city furthermore actively decided to be a car-unfriendly environment, making driving through or parking difficult and expensive - guess what: The same factor that probably makes the score on quality of life a bit higher might make the infrastructure score a bit lower...

Much more interesting is that Berne is allegedly the tenth best city to live in. I commuted some 3 years from Zurich just to NOT live there... I guess that says it all. And I my personal quality of life is higher in the #25th ranked city than it was in the 2nd.

Overall does the study seem to have a bias towards continental Europe - who on earth wants to live in Frankfurt? Rating Tokyo on 32 on the infrastructure list is in my eyes bizarre. Is it just because the airport is not in the city center?
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  #67  
Old 05.12.2012, 08:45
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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If Zurich Trams are the best thing you have ever experienced do you really need to get out more. I moved from Zurich to Singapore and Zurich is not even in the same league... I used public transport in Switzerland a lot but never even dreamed about giving up my car. Because somebody decided to put most of the shopping places into some far out industrial areas nobody could reach on public transport... now I am a happy user of the #1 placed Singaporean mass rapid transport system and did not even bother to convert my driving license.

Zurich fully deserves some ok-ish place at best. The public transport is far from fast or efficient. That's not the Swiss' fault but simply a fact - Zurich is after all surrounded by a lake on one side and mountains on two more sides. Building a subways is simply the best when it comes to throughput of travellers a day and this is not really an option in Zurich. The city furthermore actively decided to be a car-unfriendly environment, making driving through or parking difficult and expensive - guess what: The same factor that probably makes the score on quality of life a bit higher might make the infrastructure score a bit lower...

Much more interesting is that Berne is allegedly the tenth best city to live in. I commuted some 3 years from Zurich just to NOT live there... I guess that says it all. And I my personal quality of life is higher in the #25th ranked city than it was in the 2nd.

Overall does the study seem to have a bias towards continental Europe - who on earth wants to live in Frankfurt? Rating Tokyo on 32 on the infrastructure list is in my eyes bizarre. Is it just because the airport is not in the city center?
You also wonder about who may want to live in Frankfurt ?
Answer: the Mercer chaps
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  #68  
Old 05.12.2012, 08:47
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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The public transport is far from fast or efficient.
Totally agree. Especially the trams are painfully slow.

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That's not the Swiss' fault but simply a fact - Zurich is after all surrounded by a lake on one side and mountains on two more sides. Building a subways is simply the best when it comes to throughput of travellers a day and this is not really an option in Zurich.
It was an option in the seventies, but stupid Zurich voters turned it down.
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  #69  
Old 05.12.2012, 08:59
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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It was an option in the seventies, but stupid Zurich voters turned it down.
As far as I know based on cost - because there is pretty hard rock below Zurich that makes the whole thing more expensive than in an oversized sand bank like manhattan...
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  #70  
Old 05.12.2012, 09:03
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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public transportation - london has more extensive network, more frequent service, better night service, taxis you can take routinely without becoming bankrupt, convenient oyster card. zurich has cleaner more comfortable rolling stock. london wins.

Nah! London transport is like Apple map thingy, unstable and unsafe. Half the time the buses are stuck in traffic. Trains run late regularly. Not to mention the thugs and psychos found on them.

For me Zürich rocks.
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Old 05.12.2012, 10:03
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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Coming from north of the river, I am quite worried that I might now be living in Morden....
Least of your problems. If you're south of the river the chances of getting stabbed by a feral teenager have just gone up exponentially.
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  #72  
Old 05.12.2012, 10:04
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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Nah! London transport is like Apple map thingy, unstable and unsafe. Half the time the buses are stuck in traffic. Trains run late regularly. Not to mention the thugs and psychos found on them.

For me Zürich rocks.
But Zurich is about the size of Hyde Park.
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  #73  
Old 05.12.2012, 10:26
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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You also wonder about who may want to live in Frankfurt ?
Answer: the Mercer chaps
I would love to see these Mercer folks applying for an apartment here, signing in on the laundry schedule...or even trying to get some cough syrup outside of regular business hours.
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  #74  
Old 05.12.2012, 10:30
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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Nah! London transport is like Apple map thingy, unstable and unsafe. Half the time the buses are stuck in traffic. Trains run late regularly. Not to mention the thugs and psychos found on them.

For me Zürich rocks.

What on Earth are you talking about?

Take off your swiss-tinted specs for a minute.

London transport is far from ideal, but consider the volume of usage. Consider how easy it is to use, even for someone who has never been to london in their life. It is not unstable at all, and how exactly is it unsafe? Stop making pointless statements without any evidence.

Thugs and psychos? Are you one of these old bats who sees a teenager in a hoody and assumes he's about to kill you and burn your house down? Newsflash, most people, even in london, are not thugs and psychos.

London transport is generally, pretty good. When you have hundreds of underground trains, using the same bits of track, it is only natural that, on occasion, some will fail. nothing, even in switzerland, is 100% perfect. Do you really think that if Zurich was the same size and density as london, it would run problem-free? Please. Building a transport system to cope with 8,200,000 people is a damn sight harder then building one for a measly 376,000 people.

Stop bashing England just because you no longer live there.
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  #75  
Old 05.12.2012, 10:46
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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The blue lines do not resemble any London tube map that I know.
OK. You do realise that the tube maps are not how the tracks are really positioned...
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mercer-has-released-2012-quality-living-rankings-london-underground-map.jpg  

Last edited by jrspet; 05.12.2012 at 10:50. Reason: Resized and uploaded image to 1024x768
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  #76  
Old 05.12.2012, 10:54
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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The landscape? You mean the beautiful grey and grubby Zurich landscape.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=z%C3%...rland&t=k&z=13

Grey indeed...
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  #77  
Old 05.12.2012, 11:17
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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Overall does the study seem to have a bias towards continental Europe - who on earth wants to live in Frankfurt?
I understand that Frankfurt is very much underrated in popular opinion. It's sort of cool without being hip, if you see what I mean.
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  #78  
Old 05.12.2012, 11:27
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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As far as I know based on cost - because there is pretty hard rock below Zurich that makes the whole thing more expensive than in an oversized sand bank like manhattan...
Construction engineers will tell you hard rock is actually better to dig in than soft sand. Okay, it takes tougher tools and you work more slowly but then it more or less supports itself whereas with sand there is the constant threat of something getting washed out or caving in if you aren't paying attention for three seconds, or random some building 100s of meters away developing cracks and you're never quite sure if there is a connection. Look at what happened in Köln. The reason that many of London's tube lines are so deep down is that the shallower layers, which are mostly sand or gravel are so treacherous, but if you go deep enough you reach clay, which is fairly stable.

The Zürich U-Bahn was projected at a time that people believed Zürich would grow to have a population of millions within 20 years or so (this was in the 1970s) and everything was being designed to cope with that. For example the incinerator at Hagenholz has never been used to more than 25% of its capacity because there never were enough people producing the waste. Zürich was even a contender for the Olympics at one point. The Zürich U-Bahn was entirely doable and viable from both an engineering and financial perspective. But it was based on over-optimistic projections and voters disbelieved those projections. The rejection at the polls took planners entirely by surprise, however, as various bits of preliminary work had already begun. Anybody wishing to sample a taste of what Zürich's U-bahn would have been like can take the SZU train between Hauptbahnhof and Selnau, or the tram between Mlichbuck and Schwamendingen. Not at all the most pleasant of metro experiences by any strectch, so I guess not having more of that is a blessing in disguise.
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Old 05.12.2012, 11:28
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

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OK. You do realise that the tube maps are not how the tracks are really positioned...
Duh ... really?
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Old 05.12.2012, 11:33
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Re: Mercer has released the 2012 Quality of Living Rankings

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881)

Isn't beauty in the eye of the beholder?


And think about this one...

A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.Joseph Stalin (1879 - 1953)
Statistics dehumanise and they are a convienient way for people who know little about the subject to draw conclusions.
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