Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 22.03.2013, 00:59
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Zug
Posts: 61
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts
AVANZA has slipped a little
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
Isn't that the same type that did a belly flop into Heathrow a few years back?
Boeing 777 and the A340 are two aircraft that have not had a fatal hull loss incident.

as discussed by others, the 777 heathrow incident was created because of the design of a part and there were frozen crystals in the fuel system which caused fuel starvation on the turbofan engines.

They (Boeing and the supplier) have redesigned the part and made it flat instead of corrugated in nature and this should resolve the issue.

As for comfort and efficiency - They are both comfortable wide body jets. Boeing for me appears more stable in the sky. I've flown A340 with AirAsia, Air Canada whereas my 777 experience is with Royal Brunei and Singapore. The configuration of the interior is more important than the actual design of the aircraft and the AirAsia experience was terrible when fitting my 198cm frame into the seat from Kuala Lumpur to Paris. On the other hand, Royal Brunei and Singapore were excellent experiences. Royal Brunei although cheap was possibly the smoothest and most comfortable flight I have had. We flew from Melbourne to London via Dubai with a stopover in Bandar Seri Begawan.

I prefer the 777 over the A340 also from a reliability perspective. Twin engine aircraft are more reliable than quad engines. Having two more engines on the wing increases complication in fuel and electronics systems.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 22.03.2013, 03:01
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
And the good news is ,the savings will be passed on to the consumers ,right
25% to the consumers, 75% to the air-operators

Quote:
View Post
That incident was quickly hushed up but it was a very important one. Similar things have happened on at least two other occasions but the planes landed safely (emergency landings). I think one was a flight from Singapore to Europe and they had to land in Moscow.

I attribute this to quality British engineering as the engines were made by Rolls Royce. This, together with the Quantas exploding engines and cracks in A380 wings, speaks volumes about British manufacturing.
Except that is QANTAS (not quantas) as not related to quantity but to Queensland And Northern Territorial Aerial Services

Quote:
View Post
---and I found them very cramped and uncomfortable.
you possibly are a bit taller than 1.70

Last edited by lost_inbroad; 22.03.2013 at 07:57.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 22.03.2013, 04:40
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 10,402
Groaned at 249 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 18,860 Times in 6,901 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
Your quality argument is superfluous and incorrect, nothing gets certificated unless it has been rigorously tested and approved before being accepted for production.
Like the dreamliner for example.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 22.03.2013, 10:05
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,045
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,560 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
Like the dreamliner for example.
Different case. Boeing presented the lithium battery to the FAA who approved the design. As no one has yet clearly figured out why there was an uncontained heat build up, the jury is still out. Don't compare apples with carrots.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 22.03.2013, 10:16
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,575
Groaned at 212 Times in 126 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Glad to hear it. The most uncomfortable long haul I ever did was ZRH-JHB and back in the Swiss Airbus.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Upthehatters2008 for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 22.03.2013, 10:18
lost_inbroad's Avatar
Unbridled Mod
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Town or region
Posts: 10,926
Groaned at 622 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,460 Times in 5,718 Posts
lost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
Glad to hear it. The most uncomfortable long haul I ever did was ZRH-JHB and back in the Swiss Airbus.
Why?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 22.03.2013, 14:02
IK36's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: VD
Posts: 360
Groaned at 70 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 297 Times in 145 Posts
IK36 has earned some respectIK36 has earned some respect
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
Different case. Boeing presented the lithium battery to the FAA who approved the design. As no one has yet clearly figured out why there was an uncontained heat build up, the jury is still out. Don't compare apples with carrots.
Exactly the same thing. All cases of flawed design that was approved by regulators. Tell me please why ice crystals are only an issue with 777 and only with RR engines.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 22.03.2013, 14:47
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,575
Groaned at 212 Times in 126 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
Why?
Ridiculously thin cushions, worn and threadbare. Backache and cramps. Worst economy comfort I have travelled in. I am sure the 777 will have a better seat pitch too.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Upthehatters2008 for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 22.03.2013, 15:54
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 10,402
Groaned at 249 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 18,860 Times in 6,901 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

In related news to the six planes for Swiss: Lion Air ordered 234 Airbus last week - on top of the 230 Boeings they ordered last year...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21833501
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 22.03.2013, 16:03
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,575
Groaned at 212 Times in 126 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
Twin engine aircraft are more reliable than quad engines. Having two more engines on the wing increases complication in fuel and electronics systems.
...but not safer. Lose one engine and a 4 engined plane can still make the destination.Lose two engines on a 4 engined plane and you can still land. On a twin engined plan, you will be landing a lot faster than you thought if one engine failed. Lose two engines and your survival is a coin flip.


I feel a story about a B-52 and the dreaded 7-engine only emergency landing
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 22.03.2013, 22:25
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
Exactly the same thing. All cases of flawed design that was approved by regulators. Tell me please why ice crystals are only an issue with 777 and only with RR engines.
Ice crystal are not only a problem with Boeing 777 and not only a problem with RR engines, but are a problem with ALL airplanes and ALL engines. But the incident happened with this aircraft type and those engines and so, this case was taken as a kind of "model-case"

The problems with those batteries which affected the Boeing 787 lead to certain changes in case of the A350
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 22.03.2013, 22:43
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,045
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,560 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
Exactly the same thing. All cases of flawed design that was approved by regulators. Tell me please why ice crystals are only an issue with 777 and only with RR engines.
That's not the case. Read the AAIB links I posted. This isn't an aviation forum and we're way off subject, but head on over to pprune.org if you want to read more on airplanes and stuff.

In summary, no amount of testing, whether real or simulated can ever create all the circumstances that an airplane will encounter when in service. Take the same BA 777 LHR incident, one of the main gear punctured the wing and sent debris into the cabin, no one could have tested for that and the AAIB made recommendations about that too. Everyone is a smart ass after the event, but we all learn by falling on our faces occasionally, the consequences in aviation are just more dramatic in three dimensions and people sometimes die before anyone knew that there was an issue.
__________________
Crash your karma into little bits of happiness
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 22.03.2013, 22:43
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
In related news to the six planes for Swiss: Lion Air ordered 234 Airbus last week - on top of the 230 Boeings they ordered last year...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21833501
But the news-report of BBC is clearly rubbish as it neither says how many planes of what type are ordered and how many options were placed and as it second says The planes will be made in France which is wrong as the places are made in Germany to the same extent as in France and lots of components in Britain and Spain.

Here the full report on www.airbus.com

Lion Air has placed a firm order with Airbus for 234 A320 Family aircraft, comprising 109 A320NEO, 65 A321NEO and 60 A320standard.

True, this indeed is remarkable, but Lufthansa not only ordered those few planes for Swiss but also lots of planes for its main-company at the same time.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 22.03.2013, 22:45
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 7,790
Groaned at 98 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 5,265 Times in 2,958 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Great news. Hopefully easy direct smooth ride back home to Joburg
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 23.03.2013, 08:00
dmay's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Stetten, Aargau
Posts: 236
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 434 Times in 121 Posts
dmay has a reputation beyond reputedmay has a reputation beyond reputedmay has a reputation beyond reputedmay has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
...but not safer. Lose one engine and a 4 engined plane can still make the destination.Lose two engines on a 4 engined plane and you can still land. On a twin engined plan, you will be landing a lot faster than you thought if one engine failed. Lose two engines and your survival is a coin flip.


I feel a story about a B-52 and the dreaded 7-engine only emergency landing
In case you aren't familiar with ETOPS, which is the certification required for long-haul, twin-engine aircraft, the 777 is rated to fly for nearly four hours on one engine, should the other fail. Which means that the engine could fail anywhere on the globe and the plane has the range to safely land.

No guarantees about translunar flights, though.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dmay for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 23.03.2013, 09:04
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
In case you aren't familiar with ETOPS, which is the certification required for long-haul, twin-engine aircraft, the 777 is rated to fly for nearly four hours on one engine, should the other fail. Which means that the engine could fail anywhere on the globe and the plane has the range to safely land.

No guarantees about translunar flights, though.
Correct. Upthehatters may however need the info that ETOPS is a complicated system about longhaul flights adhering to a worldwide pattern of alternative landing points available if in distress, which for many years was opposed to by Lufthansa and Swissair (later on Swiss International) but which proved to be absolutely successful. Medium and LongHaul flights still need the overflying rights of any country overflown anyway, so that this still is an important aspect anyway. Twin-engined airplanes between Europe and North America follow a flight-path within two hours of Reykjavik and Gander. But the savings in regard to fuel consumption are enough to justify the procedure. Not least as almost no such eventuality diversion becomes necessary per year.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 23.03.2013, 09:06
Mark75's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: by the lake (either one)
Posts: 2,485
Groaned at 44 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 3,102 Times in 1,347 Posts
Mark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
I am sure the 777 will have a better seat pitch too.
Seat pitch is specified by the aircraft operator and not by the plane manufacturer.
Swiss could have ordered comfy seats with 36" pitch for the 340 but they chose otherwise. What makes you believe they will change their mind about the 777 seat config?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 23.03.2013, 09:20
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,575
Groaned at 212 Times in 126 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Experience.

...also thinner lighter seats allow for better pitch with the same seat numbers.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 23.03.2013, 09:23
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,575
Groaned at 212 Times in 126 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
In case you aren't familiar with ETOPS, which is the certification required for long-haul, twin-engine aircraft, the 777 is rated to fly for nearly four hours on one engine, should the other fail. Which means that the engine could fail anywhere on the globe and the plane has the range to safely land.

No guarantees about translunar flights, though.
Read my post, ETOPS rating does not get you to your destination. Just down...
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 23.03.2013, 12:16
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 15,689
Groaned at 253 Times in 214 Posts
Thanked 13,127 Times in 7,372 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss orders Boeing 777s

Quote:
View Post
25% to the consumers, 75% to the air-operators
Actually Air Lines have been loosing billions of shareholders capital for decades. Passengers have been subsidised on most Air Lines for a very long time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
777, airline, boeing, flying, swiss




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss court orders retrial of Nigerian dictator's son The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 21.09.2011 10:50
Swiss court orders UEFA to reinstate Sion The Local Swiss news via The Local 3 13.09.2011 19:16
Boeing 777 fly-by at Paine Field Shorrick Mk2 General off-topic 13 26.02.2008 11:24
Swiss Law and Stalking/Restraining Orders jemma Other/general 37 05.10.2007 12:33
PS3 Pre-orders cyrus TV/internet/telephone 7 14.02.2007 18:19


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0