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Old 14.01.2008, 10:34
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Speed Cameras on the Piste

I've seen a couple of articles that speed cameras are to be introduced to the Swiss ski resorts for speeding skiiers and boarders. One from the Times online here.

The linked article implies that there's going to be enforced speed limits, but the comments suggest it's more of an awareness campaign and that the Times has overblown the issue, what's the real situation?

Has anyone encountered them?
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Old 14.01.2008, 10:41
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

lol, i was just a bout to make the same thread.....


Not sure how it will help, it even said in the artical that most accidents are caused by drunkards and begginers NOT speed demons.
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Old 14.01.2008, 10:45
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

Haven't seen any yet. Seems a bit of a BS idea until someone works out a way of fitting a speedometer to skis. The comment at the bottom about overstretched beginners and drunks being responsible for a lot of accidents also rings true.
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Old 14.01.2008, 10:46
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

You cannot enforce a speed limit if there is no relevant legislation. Considering there's no usable tachometer for skiers, I don't see how legislation could be drafted either.
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Old 14.01.2008, 10:57
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

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The linked article implies that there's going to be enforced speed limits, but the comments suggest it's more of an awareness campaign and that the Times has overblown the issue, what's the real situation?

Has anyone encountered them?
Loooooooooool - I mean there is a speed measurement in Davos; but that's on a closed track. If I consider that I did my 95km/h without a Body Miller start - the suggestion of going below 30km/h (article) seem to be very slow.

Additionally, I'm usually not hunting down over my limit - but there are people who can't ski within their limits (actually almost every beginner, even below the 30km/h).
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Old 14.01.2008, 11:02
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

Not sure I've ever cracked 30kmh on my snowboard
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Old 14.01.2008, 11:02
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

I like the system they have in Australia, no speed cameras, just common sense. They have experienced ski patrollers out on the mountain all the time, not just responding to medical emergencies.

If it is first thing in the morning, the slopes are quiet and the skier has the skill then there is no worries about speed.

But later in the day when the slopes are busy, ski patrol are more than happy to relieve riders of their lift pass if they are speeding in crowded areas with limited control. Seems to work well over there.
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Old 14.01.2008, 11:05
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

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Not sure I've ever cracked 30kmh on my snowboard
I know, I always feel I'm going much faster than I really am!

I am picking up the speed as my skills improve as I feel I can avoid the dangerous situations, but I have no idea of my real speed.
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Old 14.01.2008, 11:10
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

I understood that it was a Suva (insurance company) initative to try and convince us that we should be skiing slower than 30kph. They are said to be clocking skiiers at Andermatt with hand held radar guns. According to Ski-mag.com, the radar patrol will be soon expanding to St. Moritz, Zermatt & Davos as well. I was at Arosa recently & there wasn't anything similar. So long as it is only advisory, it seems harmless enough. The problem though is that those advisory things have a habit of morphing into hard restrictions, fines & prohibitions.

http://www.ski-mag.com/en/ski/clanak.php?id=18288
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Old 14.01.2008, 11:14
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

The whole thing came about due to a SUVA report that found that ski accidents at speeds of 50 kmh and above result in serious injuries. I believe at this stage it is more about informing the skiers, but I don't know for sure.
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Old 14.01.2008, 12:04
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

What i would like to see is skiiers and boarders on seperate pistes.


1) boarders ruin the pistes when they slide sideways on the top of the pistes, leaving it icey at the top then mounds of snow at the bottom

2) on thin areas of the pistes (as in not wide) boarders are unpredicable, as in they can go left right backwards sideways and seem to make far too many last min direction decisions

3) i dont like the way boarders dress, might be something to do with hip-hop i dont know.....lol
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Old 14.01.2008, 12:08
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

better and better equipment,state of the art skis and snowboards teamed with even bigger egos and unabiltiy to command the skis/board and lack of knowlegde of the FIS rules

http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/rulesandpu...is/10fisregeln


...lead to more and more(serious) accidents on the piste.


I am a skier who's got the FIS rules drummed in since childhood and tries to behave accordingly on the piste,but skiing is no fun no more these days there are far more rowdys on the pistes than considerate skiers/boarders.

So yes,be it just to inform skiers or be it for real with this radar thingy I welcome this!

But when people lack common sense, then I fear it won't make a big change,just see the tragic accident of last weekend , when parents left the secured and marked piste with their 12 year old son and he gets killed in an avalanche ........
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Old 14.01.2008, 12:32
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

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better and better equipment,state of the art skis and snowboards teamed with even bigger egos and unabiltiy to command the skis/board and lack of knowlegde of the FIS rules

http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/rulesandpu...is/10fisregeln


...lead to more and more(serious) accidents on the piste.


I am a skier who's got the FIS rules drummed in since childhood and tries to behave accordingly on the piste,but skiing is no fun no more these days there are far more rowdys on the pistes than considerate skiers/boarders.

So yes,be it just to inform skiers or be it for real with this radar thingy I welcome this!

But when people lack common sense, then I fear it won't make a big change,just see the tragic accident of last weekend , when parents left the secured and marked piste with their 12 year old son and he gets killed in an avalanche ........
I'm a beginner and always stick to the easy blue slopes and try to respect the other skiers around me. I always feel worried though that I am annoying other skiers as I need to practice turns using the width of the slope to help control my speed. I would never dream of taking on a slope that I couldn't manage but just wondered if people are tolerant of this and if not what would you advise me to do as I need to practice but also don't want to lose control of my speed and seriously hurt someone.
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Old 14.01.2008, 12:39
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

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I'm a beginner and always stick to the easy blue slopes and try to respect the other skiers around me. I always feel worried though that I am annoying other skiers as I need to practice turns using the width of the slope to help control my speed. I would never dream of taking on a slope that I couldn't manage but just wondered if people are tolerant of this and if not what would you advise me to do as I need to practice but also don't want to lose control of my speed and seriously hurt someone.

Mimi,people like you should be protected by the FIS rules,but alas not many know ( or respect ) them and thus you are the most endangered on the pistes! The blue piste is first adn foremost for beginners,children etc and thus you would certainly not annoy anyone by doing your zig-zagging

See below,this means that you should still shoot a quick glance uphill before you do a turn to zig zag downhill,to check that noone is crossing your path


3. Choice of route
A skier or snowboarder coming from behind must choose his route in such a way that he does not endanger skiers or snowboarders ahead.

4. Overtaking
A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement.




Happy Skiing!
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Old 14.01.2008, 12:43
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

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I'm a beginner and always stick to the easy blue slopes and try to respect the other skiers around me. I always feel worried though that I am annoying other skiers as I need to practice turns using the width of the slope to help control my speed. I would never dream of taking on a slope that I couldn't manage but just wondered if people are tolerant of this and if not what would you advise me to do as I need to practice but also don't want to lose control of my speed and seriously hurt someone.
Don't let "annoying" other riders worry you. We all had to learn sometime.

Firstly, it is the responsibility of the faster rider to give way to you.
The other tip is that when you make your turns, instead of using the whole width of the piste, use about 2/3s of it, turning a couple of meters before the edge. This gives faster riders plenty of space to get around you. It will feel close to you when they wizz past, but it is plenty of space for them.

The only exception to this is if it is a narrow cattrack. Then they will just have to wait. You will find that 90% of experienced, faster riders (skiers or snowboarders) are used to having to negotiate around slower riders and regard it as just another part of the day. The other 10%, well they are just dicks and there isn't much you can do about them until the mountains over here start kicking them off the slopes.
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Old 14.01.2008, 12:52
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

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What i would like to see is skiiers and boarders on seperate pistes.


1) boarders ruin the pistes when they slide sideways on the top of the pistes, leaving it icey at the top then mounds of snow at the bottom

2) on thin areas of the pistes (as in not wide) boarders are unpredicable, as in they can go left right backwards sideways and seem to make far too many last min direction decisions

3) i dont like the way boarders dress, might be something to do with hip-hop i dont know.....lol
I think this argument can go both ways.

1) a.In many cases to Carving Skis damage the piste faer more then a snow board. Lenzerheide yesterday is case in point. Most pistes looked like a mogul field by the end of the day. Carving skis push snow into heaps at verious places down the slope leaving icy conditions in between.
b.Its not just snowboarders that slide down and make the top of steep sections icy. While I agree that many snowboarders do do this, I also see many skiers do it. Furthermore there are often both skiers and boarders at the top of these sections or just below the brink scared to ride down it making it dangerous for others who want to just ride to get past.

2) I often experience skiers to be just as bad. I often see skiers unpredictably breaking on narrow sections. I don't think its fair to blame snowboarders solely for this because I find both skiers and boarders who lack a certain amount of confidence and/or skill all tend to cause confusion on narrow tracks.

3) Come on... thats along the lines of I don't like you because of how you look!!! Do you not like surfers, skateboarders, windsurfers and free-skiers also?

There is a case which I have seen all to often which is an accident waiting to happen, which I have seen only with skiers!!!
A parent with a child between their legs just below the top of a steep section, often a black slope. The kid is clearly scared and shouldn't be riding that slope but the parent drags them down anyway. This is an accident waiting to happen either by the parent and child crashing (as happened a few years ago killing the mother), or someone not seeing them coming over the top of the slope. I see it regularly on the talabfahrt in Hoch-ybrig which is a black run.

I don't think it is fair to generalise about snowboarders or skiers. Both camps can be responsible for the same problem, and the way things are going development of the sports feed off each other.
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Old 14.01.2008, 12:52
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

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What i would like to see is skiiers and boarders on seperate pistes.


1) boarders ruin the pistes when they slide sideways on the top of the pistes, leaving it icey at the top then mounds of snow at the bottom

2) on thin areas of the pistes (as in not wide) boarders are unpredicable, as in they can go left right backwards sideways and seem to make far too many last min direction decisions

3) i dont like the way boarders dress, might be something to do with hip-hop i dont know.....lol
I agree with your number one (above). A rubbish skier like myself is suddenly presented with a series of moguls on a blue run which has been thoughtfully and artistically carved out by boarders. Having said that, the ski resorts I've visited are usually pretty nifty with pisting machines and smooth out the bumps a couple of times a day.

On the subject of piste etiquette, they should put up some kind of notification at the queue for the lift to ask people not to push and shove and stand all over other people's skis. It takes me twice as long to get on the lift because I'm useless at queuing ski resort style.
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Old 14.01.2008, 12:57
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

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I agree with your number one (above). A rubbish skier like myself is suddenly presented with a series of moguls on a blue run which has been thoughtfully and artistically carved out by boarders.
Its far more likely that over zealous carving skiers have cut up the pistes into these moguls!!!

I've seem areas where many of the black runs are not frequented by boarders but almost predominately by skiers. The results are like a bad nightmare!!!

Conversly if you ever see a place where predominantly snowboarders have gone , yes the piste is cut up but much more randomly and is actually easier to negotiate!!!
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Old 14.01.2008, 13:07
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

Eastenders & Woodsie,

Thanks for your comments it really makes me feel much better

As you mentioned Woodsie, I try to only use 2/3rds of the slope and so far (touch wood) I've not come to any harm and everyone seems to be able to manoevre around me easily enough.

It's just a bit embarrassing to be so rubbish and I hate the feeling of spoiling someones fun on the slopes just because I can't go faster than a snails pace

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea for us beginners to wear L plates like you do when learning to drive to help everyne else steer clear of us? Or are we obvious enough anyway?
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Old 14.01.2008, 13:07
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Re: Speed Cameras on the Piste

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I think this argument can go both ways.

1) a.In many cases to Carving Skis damage the piste faer more then a snow board. Lenzerheide yesterday is case in point. Most pistes looked like a mogul field by the end of the day. Carving skis push snow into heaps at verious places down the slope leaving icy conditions in between.
in all fairness it's the technique not the skis that create moguls. Carving when done properly is totally devoid of sliding when turning and the only sliding happens when braking. As such, it cannot be carving per se that creates moguls.

Proof in case is that the turning radius of a carving ski is at least over 10 meters, whereas I'm yet to see moguls 10m apart.
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