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View Poll Results: Would you vote for a Burka ban in your canton?
Yes 92 60.93%
No 59 39.07%
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Old 16.09.2013, 11:15
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22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

You may have missed the news that "Ticino will become the first Swiss canton to hold a referendum on banning face-covering headgear in public places. "

The reasoning is some people think that this will improve national security. After all, after the terrorist bomb goes off, we can identify the person who did it.

Ridiculous is what I find it. Are we going to ban balaclavas too? Hats of certain types?

Naturally, we are voting for bratwurst and against burka bans. Let's not make laws for something we don't need, I say.

Since most of you are not in Ticino, how would you vote? And don't make this into some slagging fest please
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Old 16.09.2013, 11:23
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

I would vote yes, because I like women to look like women. And not like bottles of Guinness.
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Old 16.09.2013, 11:24
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

I think it's a bit of a stupid move, to be honest. Singling out a certain type of head covering is always going to ignite debate.

Having said that, aren't there already existing rules in place, for example, where you have to have your full face and head exposed for things like passport photos and as you go through security in airports?

Those rules are indiscriminate and reasonable (as much as they can be these days ) whereby everyone has to do the same.

In the UK, they brought in a rule (not sure if it was a law) that you couldn't wear a motorbike helmet going into a bank but that obviously didn't target any particular ethnic profile - if you are wearing a helmet you take it off.

Otherwise, you should be able to wear whatever you want on your head.
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Old 16.09.2013, 11:25
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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I would vote yes, because I like women to look like women. And not like bottles of Guinness.
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Old 16.09.2013, 11:26
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

1) We need to ask ourselves 'How many women are there who wear Burqa's in TI with respective to the population?'

2) If someone wanted to blow or shoot something up, you don't need a Burqa to do it. In the recent few months the cases of Shootings and other in CH have little or nothing to do with a Burqa.

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You may have missed the news that "Ticino will become the first Swiss canton to hold a referendum on banning face-covering headgear in public places. "

The reasoning is some people think that this will improve national security. After all, after the terrorist bomb goes off, we can identify the person who did it.

Ridiculous is what I find it. Are we going to ban balaclavas too? Hats of certain types?

Naturally, we are voting for bratwurst and against burka bans. Let's not make laws for something we don't need, I say.

Since most of you are not in Ticino, how would you vote? And don't make this into some slagging fest please
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Old 16.09.2013, 11:29
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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Having said that, aren't there already existing rules in place, for example, where you have to have your full face and head exposed for things like passport photos and as you go through security in airports?
For border security, it is always possible for the official there to ask you to remove anything that hides your appearance. Try sunglasses - you'll be told to remove them.....so headwear would also be likely (even though some have shirked asking the question and let fugitives pass through unchecked.

The 7/7 London bombers also tried to flee dressed in Burkas, IIRC.
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Old 16.09.2013, 11:38
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

What works for a culture works for that culture. For us to impose or tell others what to do is just wrong (Unless it is against basic human needs i.e. Child marriages where a 10 year old marries a 40yr old).

I personally dont think women should cover up their face, be proud of yourself. But if its your choice, go ahead and wear it, nothing wrong with that.

another example:

1. Arranged marriages, I have met many young adults in India who want an arranged marriage. Many laugh and ridicule this thought, but expand your mind, the world works in funny ways.

2. Burka's, and other outfits that dont jive with the West: Many women love wearing it, yes I think that it might be overdoing it with the face coverage, but overall if they are happy so be it.

I personally blame some men for the reason why women wear burka's and feel the need to cover up. If certain men were not thinking with their below the belt brain 24/7 women can be free without worrying about being raped. Also its those same men who cheat / lust that want their own ''women'' to wear the cover ups. i.e. Be a western woman tourist in India and be prepared to be raped in every manner. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/20/wo...rpt/index.html with those demonic eyes that rape the hell out of you, Burka seems like a good alternative

Truth is harsh but we live in a world where people do things and we dont know why so we just simply fear or hate it.

Racism and hatred.. It will never go away, whether your a football player or a woman who just won miss america, low minded low life folks who never opened a book or took a trip outside of their local city will surely act ignorant. i.e. ''Miss 7-11'' who won Miss America. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/16/sh...html?hpt=hp_c4 Yep. People are confused about ethnicity.
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Old 16.09.2013, 11:39
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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For border security, it is always possible for the official there to ask you to remove anything that hides your appearance. Try sunglasses - you'll be told to remove them.....so headwear would also be likely (even though some have shirked asking the question and let fugitives pass through unchecked.

The 7/7 London bombers also tried to flee dressed in Burkas, IIRC.

Also.. IF you ever go to your Geminde, when you take photos you must remove your face covering, all else is ok.

This is the same for 99.9% of the world's governmental IDs so its fair to ask this.
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Old 16.09.2013, 11:43
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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But if its your choice, go ahead and wear it, nothing wrong with that.
This is key for me, we discussed it yesterday and agreed that, if a lady from another culture and religion chooses to wear some headwear (either covering head, face or both) then that's their choice.

I am not in any way for society trying to make rules for us where it makes no sense. Speed limits - yes, agree. Trying to spin a "national security" reason on headgear - no. And if it's about security, it should be a federal vote not cantonal......so no again!
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Old 16.09.2013, 11:57
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

In many middle east countries all women must cover their hair, schoulders, legs, everything except their faces. If western women do not comply they are in trouble with the law. We should have similar laws here, show the face!

If eastern women living here want to cover up their faces, they should stay at home, I read that it is a fact it is the men that require the women to cover up.

In the middle east there are many road accidents with Burka lady victims, because they cannot see the traffic. Make them go uncovered, and they will be safer!
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Old 16.09.2013, 12:04
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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What works for a culture works for that culture. For us to impose or tell others what to do is just wrong (Unless it is against basic human needs i.e. Child marriages where a 10 year old marries a 40yr old).

I personally dont think women should cover up their face, be proud of yourself. But if its your choice, go ahead and wear it, nothing wrong with that.

another example:

1. Arranged marriages, I have met many young adults in India who want an arranged marriage. Many laugh and ridicule this thought, but expand your mind, the world works in funny ways.

2. Burka's, and other outfits that dont jive with the West: Many women love wearing it, yes I think that it might be overdoing it with the face coverage, but overall if they are happy so be it.

I personally blame some men for the reason why women wear burka's and feel the need to cover up. If certain men were not thinking with their below the belt brain 24/7 women can be free without worrying about being raped. Also its those same men who cheat / lust that want their own ''women'' to wear the cover ups. i.e. Be a western woman tourist in India and be prepared to be raped in every manner. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/20/wo...rpt/index.html with those demonic eyes that rape the hell out of you, Burka seems like a good alternative

Truth is harsh but we live in a world where people do things and we dont know why so we just simply fear or hate it.

Racism and hatred.. It will never go away, whether your a football player or a woman who just won miss america, low minded low life folks who never opened a book or took a trip outside of their local city will surely act ignorant. i.e. ''Miss 7-11'' who won Miss America. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/16/sh...html?hpt=hp_c4 Yep. People are confused about ethnicity.
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This is key for me, we discussed it yesterday and agreed that, if a lady from another culture and religion chooses to wear some headwear (either covering head, face or both) then that's their choice.

I am not in any way for society trying to make rules for us where it makes no sense. Speed limits - yes, agree. Trying to spin a "national security" reason on headgear - no. And if it's about security, it should be a federal vote not cantonal......so no again!
Correct me if I am wrong but its not their choice is it?

As someone has already pointed, if a Western women goes outside in certain areas in the middle east they must cover their hair which is conforming to that countries rules/regulations. Should this not work both ways or is it it 'one rule for one' simply to 'keep the peace' and avoid being branded a bigot?

Also in the UK kids are are banned from wearing hoodies in certain areas i.e. shopping centers to help with security. There has also been a couple of cases of men committing crimes wearing a burka.

If women have to cover up when they visit certain areas in the Middle East to conform with their rules/regulations, whats the issue with Middle Eastern women having to conform to a Western countries rules and regulations?
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Old 16.09.2013, 12:11
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

I cannot go outside without my underwear on, even if I chose to I would be arrested. Sometimes the "Personal choice" demand is just too stupid!
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Old 16.09.2013, 12:36
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

An opinion piece in the Times made a few cogent points.

...the niqab is more than a statement of modesty or piety...It is, as Tony Blair once said, a mark of separateness.

Jack Straw said he wouldn't see constituents who covered their faces. What's the point of a face to face if only one face is seen? If you're trying to communicate with someone who's face is covered, essentially you're no longer dealing with an individual, rather a group.

The niqab is fundamentally different from the cross or the yarmulke. Whether it is worn voluntarily or under duress, it goes to extreme lengths to hide the individual in favour of the group, and in the process it tends to keep that group separate from others.

And from here: "The question is: 'are we supporting individual freedoms by allowing the niqab or in practice, undermining them?' "

As a result of these pieces, while I was against the minaret ban, I am in favour of full-face-veil ban.
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Old 16.09.2013, 12:43
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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In many middle east countries all women must cover their hair, schoulders, legs, everything except their faces. If western women do not comply they are in trouble with the law. We should have similar laws here, show the face!

If eastern women living here want to cover up their faces, they should stay at home, I read that it is a fact it is the men that require the women to cover up.
This argument is counter to logic. They say what our women can or can not wear, I think this is wrong, so I will say what their women can or can not wear.
We can't criticiee other countries dogmatic rules about clothing if we enforce equally dogmatic rules (albeit opposite rules).
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Old 16.09.2013, 12:54
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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In many middle east countries all women must cover their hair, schoulders, legs, everything except their faces. If western women do not comply they are in trouble with the law. We should have similar laws here, show the face!

If eastern women living here want to cover up their faces, they should stay at home, I read that it is a fact it is the men that require the women to cover up.

In the middle east there are many road accidents with Burka lady victims, because they cannot see the traffic. Make them go uncovered, and they will be safer!
Please check your facts. Not all countries make this a requirement. I have been to parts of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, AE etc.. And have seen western and non western women with their hair uncovered. Some parts are extremely conservative where women (Even western women or tourists) must cover up.

http://www.uae-embassy.org/travel-cu...muslim-country

'''Women traveling in the UAE are not expected to cover their heads or wear traditional Muslim dress. When visiting a mosque, women will be asked to respect Muslim tradition and wear an abaya and cover their heads. Often, this will be provided at the mosque.'''

Please visit these countries before you make a broad conclusion about women's dress patterns.

This whole world seems to be in a anti-Islamic mode thanks to the western world. Islam is used as a scape goat to execute their own Agenda and flase flags for land (Syria) and oil/natural resources (Iraq).

I am not Muslim nor do I care for these coverings as I personally think women should be free and open like the rest of the women of the world. But to all their own. And honestly, if you want to cover your self up and fight a law in a foreign country that has accepted you, please leave, this is the law of the land if it says no face coverings, please remove.

The US allows Sihks to wear their head wrappings (turbans) in many governmental positions including the Military, many cultures are tolerant of head wear, but face coverings are difficult indeed - I agree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hijab_world2.png





To this day, head coverings play a significant role in many religions, including Orthodox Judaism and Catholicism (And North India's Hindu cultures due to Islamic invasions in the north)


The hijab is one name for a variety of similar headscarves. It is the most popular veil worn in the West. These veils consist of one or two scarves that cover the head and neck. Outside the West, this traditional veil is worn by many Muslim women in the Arab world and beyond.

The niqab covers the entire body, head and face; however, an opening is left for the eyes. The two main styles of niqab are the half-niqab that consists of a headscarf and facial veil that leaves the eyes and part of the forehead visible and the full, or Gulf, niqab that leaves only a narrow slit for the eyes. Although these veils are popular across the Muslim world, they are most common in the Gulf States. The niqab is responsible for creating much debate within Europe. Some politicians have argued for its ban, while others feel that it interferes with communication or creates security concerns.

The chador is a full-body-length shawl held closed at the neck by hand or pin. It covers the head and the body but leaves the face completely visible. Chadors are most often black and are most common in the Middle East, specifi cally in Iran.


The burqa is a full-body veil. The wearer’s entire face and body are covered, and one sees through a mesh screen over the eyes. It is most commonly worn in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Under the Taliban regime in Afghanistan (1996–2001), its use was mandated by law.
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Old 16.09.2013, 12:57
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

Just because it's religious and or cultural, it doesn't mean we, in our tolerant free society, should accept it. Somewhere, the line must be drawn. For me, Hijab, Chardor. Fine. Niqab and Burqa - not fine.

Otherwise I'm turning Aztec and demanding my right to copious human sacrifice.
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Old 16.09.2013, 12:59
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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Just because it's religious and or cultural, it doesn't mean we, in our tolerant free society, should accept it. Somewhere, the line must be drawn. For me, Hijab, Chardor. Fine. Niqab and Burqa - not fine.

Otherwise I'm turning Aztec and demanding my right to copious human sacrifice.

I hope i dont offend any one, but hte Burqa is scary.

No woman should wear it. That is just wrong, hiding yourself from the world.
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Old 16.09.2013, 13:01
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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In the middle east there are many road accidents with Burka lady victims, because they cannot see the traffic. Make them go uncovered, and they will be safer!

You make a VALID point here.

Go to places like Cairo where the traffic is sick, no one obeys the rules, wearing a Burqa at night is like wearing a sign that says ''hit me''.

And believe me it happens. I have heard of a few fatalities that were just plain gruesome when I was there last. Its hard to eat after hearing and even seeing these.

All for what? Covering up your face to avoid something thats worst than getting hit by a car... No thank you.
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Old 16.09.2013, 13:11
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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This argument is counter to logic. They say what our women can or can not wear, I think this is wrong, so I will say what their women can or can not wear.
We can't criticiee other countries dogmatic rules about clothing if we enforce equally dogmatic rules (albeit opposite rules).
In Western countries it is for security reasons, therefore not a dogmatic rule.
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Old 16.09.2013, 13:32
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Re: 22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote

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In many middle east countries all women must cover their hair, schoulders, legs, everything except their faces. If western women do not comply they are in trouble with the law. We should have similar laws here, show the face!

If eastern women living here want to cover up their faces, they should stay at home, I read that it is a fact it is the men that require the women to cover up.

In the middle east there are many road accidents with Burka lady victims, because they cannot see the traffic. Make them go uncovered, and they will be safer!
1. many? Iran and Saudi Arabi (maybe I am missing some small place)
2. while it is true that some are asked/forced by their families to cover their faces, many do because they prefer to

while my personal opinion is that there is no basis in Islam for covering faces and looking from religious perspective I think that one of the reasons we look different is to be able to recognize each other and hence face covering does not make sense, I can see that people have differing opinions.

Even if they were forced to, we won't make their lives easier by not letting them out of their apartments, as it is the most likely outcome. (husband will go to shopping, to pick up the child from school, etc.)
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