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  #61  
Old 31.08.2016, 08:26
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

I wonder if this will affect their plans to purchase..... nah just jingling 22yards chain, BUT how may planes are in their fleet? How many have they crashed?
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Old 31.08.2016, 08:33
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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Hope he's OK.

Anyone know if ejection seat has a unique ELT signal, or is it 121.5/406Mhz.
I didn't, until you asked.

https://timeswampland.files.wordpres...n_urt44-ds.pdf

Apparently there have been reliability problems:

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/m...able/78545072/

I wonder if the military configures them to transmit automatically, or it they need manual initiation? I would guess that it would be configurable. I would think that even if the GPS location was scrambled it would still be possible for the enemy to triangulate the source of the signal.

Presumably the device stays with the pilot after separation from the seat, automatically starts transmitting with the ejection, and the pilot has the possibility of turning it off and use some predefined schedule if he/she is under risk of capture.
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  #63  
Old 31.08.2016, 08:44
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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I wonder if this will affect their plans to purchase..... nah just jingling 22yards chain, BUT how may planes are in their fleet? How many have they crashed?
In total they've lost 4 Hornets - 1 C model (single seat) and 3 D models (dual seat trainer)

The original fleet consisted of 26 C models and 8 D models. Currently the fleet stands at 25 C models and 5 D models.
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  #64  
Old 31.08.2016, 10:10
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

The latest crash is causing some Swiss politicians to discuss leasing fighter aircraft until new ones can be purchased:

Corinne Eichenberger, FDP, Nationalrätin:
"As an interim solution until purchase of new jets renting or leasing would be considered."

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/31715319

Guy Parmelin, SVP, Bundesrat:
"We could also lease aircraft."

http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schwei...affe-130523405

The Swiss Luftwaffe still has 30 F/A 18 Hornets but only 12 to 18 are service-ready at any one time with the rest in maintenance. It also has 50 Vietnam War-era F-5 Tigers but only about 25 are flyable and they are not suitable for night-time missions without expensive upgrades.
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  #65  
Old 31.08.2016, 10:12
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

Correction: 53 F-5 Tigers fighter aircraft (and not 50).

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/17004375
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  #66  
Old 31.08.2016, 11:12
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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In total they've lost 4 Hornets - 1 C model (single seat) and 3 D models (dual seat trainer)

The original fleet consisted of 26 C models and 8 D models. Currently the fleet stands at 25 C models and 5 D models.
We may need "A Swiss Jet fighter just crashed in (fill in the blank)" thread.

Poor taste - Yes

Pilot humor - Check
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  #67  
Old 31.08.2016, 11:16
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

Instead of spending mega-money on foreign sourced jests they could invest it in local anti-aircraft and rocket weapons systems.
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  #68  
Old 31.08.2016, 11:21
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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Instead of spending mega-money on foreign sourced jests they could invest it in local anti-aircraft and rocket weapons systems.
Sure. Then we could contract with the surrounding nations to do flyovers every now and then so that we can make sure that the response times and tracking systems etc. are up to the level where they would make a difference if it came down to it.
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Old 31.08.2016, 11:33
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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Instead of spending mega-money on foreign sourced jests they could invest it in local anti-aircraft and rocket weapons systems.
The Swiss are primarily interested in fighter jets for air policing purposes.

Also, the Saab Gripen project had numerous Swiss contractors lined up at the trough. Expect the same for the next fighter aircraft proposal.
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Old 31.08.2016, 11:57
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

Seems the pilot's body was discovered at the scene of the crash.
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  #71  
Old 31.08.2016, 12:39
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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The Swiss are primarily interested in fighter jets for air policing purposes.
What air policing is? One radioes to a misbehaving aircraft, but if it continues, then one shoots it down? Then how is this different from sending a surface-to-air rocket?
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Old 31.08.2016, 12:43
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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What air policing is? One radioes to a misbehaving aircraft, but if it continues, then one shoots it down? Then how is this different from sending a surface-to-air rocket?
As far as I know there are no SAMs which, in the event of a radio failure, can exchange hand signals before impact, but I stand prepared to be corrected.
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  #73  
Old 31.08.2016, 12:54
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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The Swiss are primarily interested in fighter jets for air policing purposes.
During regular business hours only, that is.
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  #74  
Old 31.08.2016, 13:06
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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As far as I know there are no SAMs which, in the event of a radio failure, can exchange hand signals before impact, but I stand prepared to be corrected.
Quite an expensive piece of equipment to do a hand waving, these F18. The they also display "Bitte folgen"?
A hand-waving business could be done from a Pilatus business-jet :-) Besides it doesn't really work at night, in the clouds and otherwise most of the time, because a flyover from Geneva to St Gallen takes less than 30min, and scrambling a jet in peace time is a 15min business, and then it flies just twice as fast as an airliner.
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  #75  
Old 31.08.2016, 14:19
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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I wonder if this will affect their plans to purchase..... nah just jingling 22yards chain, BUT how may planes are in their fleet? How many have they crashed?
Aircraft[edit]

Current inventory[edit]

AircraftOriginRoleNo.Service
date
NotesBeechcraft 1900USVIP transport7000100000000000000♠1[1]2007Beechcraft B300C King AirUSphotomapping/transport7000100000000000000♠1[1]1993Operated on behalf of the Office of Topography[2]Cessna 560XL Citation ExcelUSVIP transport7000100000000000000♠1[3]2005will be replaced by Pilatus PC-24 in 2017[4][5]Dassault Falcon 900EXFranceVIP transport7000100000000000000♠1[6]2013de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin OtterCanadaphotomapping/transport7000100000000000000♠1[1]1976Operated on behalf of the Office of Topography[7]Aérospatiale AS332 Super Puma[8]Franceutility/SAR helicopter7001150000000000000♠15[1]1987Three AS332 Super Pumas entered service from 1987; twelve AS332M1s entered service from 1991; three original aircraft subsequently upgraded to -M1.[9]Eurocopter AS532 UL Cougar[10]Franceutility/SAR helicopter7001110000000000000♠11[1]2001Eurocopter EC635 P2+Franceutility/VIP helicopter7001200000000000000♠20[1]200818 EC635 and 2 EC635VIP[11]McDonnell Douglas F/A-18C HornetUSmultirole7001250000000000000♠251996Twenty-six delivered; McDonnell Douglas built two in the US; the remaining twenty-four assembled in Switzerland between 1996 and 1999; one lost (2016)[12][13][14]McDonnell Douglas F/A-18D HornetUSconversion trainer7000500000000000000♠51996Eight delivered, three since lost in crashes (1998, 2013, 2015)[15][16]Northrop F-5E Tiger IIUSfighter7001410000000000000♠41[1]1978Patrouille Suisse uses 11[17][18]Northrop F-5F Tiger IIUSconversion trainer7001120000000000000♠12[1]1976air policing and electronic warfare[19]Pilatus PC-6 PorterSwitzerlandtransport/utility7001150000000000000♠15[1]1962One PC-6/A Turbo-Porter with Turbomeca Astazou turboprop engine delivered in 1962 used as trials aircraft by Kriegstechnische Abteilung (KTA) (War Technical Department, forerunner to armasuisse). Twelve delivered to air force from 1967, another six delivered from 1976, all as piston-engined PC-6/H2 Porter; converted to PC-6/B2 Turbo-Porter with Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 turboprop engines 1980-81; three since written-off in crashes (1993, 1997, 2003).[20]Pilatus PC-7Switzerlandtrainer7001290000000000000♠29[1]1982Forty originally delivered from 1982; some withdrawn from use and sold or placed in museums; three written-off in crashes (1990, 1994, 2003).[21] The PC-7 Team (an aerobatics team of the Swiss Air Force) uses nine.[22]Pilatus PC-9Switzerlandtrainer7000800000000000000♠8[1]1988Target-towing and electronic warfare[23]Pilatus PC-21Switzerlandprimary trainer7000800000000000000♠8[1]2007RUAG RangerSwitzerlandsurveillance UAV7001340000000000000♠34[24]198828 ADS-95 & 6 ADS-90 delivered[24]KZD-85Switzerlandtarget UAV7001300000000000000♠30[25]1985
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  #76  
Old 31.08.2016, 18:07
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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Seems the pilot's body was discovered at the scene of the crash.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/f-a-18_s...ssing/42407206

Tom
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Old 31.08.2016, 18:12
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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During regular business hours only, that is.
I believe I read somewhere recently that by 2020 the Swiss Luftwaffe aims to provide two fighters on duty at any time, 24/7. Lofty ambitions! No more depending on the Austrian Luftwaffe to escort hijacked planes over Swiss airspace while Tagesschau is on.

ETA: Actually, the article that Tom linked, above, includes this info -- which I also read elsewhere.
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Old 31.08.2016, 19:33
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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I believe I read somewhere recently that by 2020 the Swiss Luftwaffe aims to provide two fighters on duty at any time, 24/7. Lofty ambitions! No more depending on the Austrian Luftwaffe to escort hijacked planes over Swiss airspace while Tagesschau is on.

ETA: Actually, the article that Tom linked, above, includes this info -- which I also read elsewhere.
Phew, 2 fighter jets, well at least we'll be safe should Liechtenstein or Luxembourg try some funny business.
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  #79  
Old 01.09.2016, 11:06
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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Well, Vietnam is a clear example that air force does not necessarily gives advantage.
I would have expected in Switzerland to mostly focus on guerrilla warfare, am I mistaken on that?
The Swiss airforce does seem rather pointless. The surrounding countries, e.g. France, Germany & Italy would not allow foreign aggressor jets to overfly their countries, and equally each of France, Germany & Italy have enough (modern) airpower to wipe out the entire Swiss airforce in minutes. Small stealthed drones would be much more reliable as eyes in the sky, with which to support the traditional Swiss guerrilla warfare in the mountains.

Relating to 22 yards' post above, Maybe they're just there in the event of a terrorist takeover of a commercial jet - not that they can actually do much in such a situation, apart from shoot it down.
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Last edited by carver; 01.09.2016 at 11:19.
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Old 01.09.2016, 13:36
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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I wonder if this will affect their plans to purchase..... nah just jingling 22yards chain, BUT how may planes are in their fleet? How many have they crashed?
----
Current inventory[edit]

AircraftOriginRoleNo.Service
date
NotesBeechcraft 1900USVIP transport7000100000000000000♠1[1]2007Beechcraft B300C King AirUSphotomapping/transport7000100000000000000♠1[1]1993Operated on behalf of the Office of Topography[2]Cessna 560XL Citation ExcelUSVIP transport7000100000000000000♠1[3]2005will be replaced by Pilatus PC-24 in 2017[4][5]Dassault Falcon 900EXFranceVIP transport7000100000000000000♠1[6]2013de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin OtterCanadaphotomapping/transport7000100000000000000♠1[1]1976Operated on behalf of the Office of Topography[7]Aérospatiale AS332 Super Puma[8]Franceutility/SAR helicopter7001150000000000000♠15[1]1987Three AS332 Super Pumas entered service from 1987; twelve AS332M1s entered service from 1991; three original aircraft subsequently upgraded to -M1.[9]Eurocopter AS532 UL Cougar[10]Franceutility/SAR helicopter7001110000000000000♠11[1]2001Eurocopter EC635 P2+Franceutility/VIP helicopter7001200000000000000♠20[1]200818 EC635 and 2 EC635VIP[11] F/A-18C USmultirole7001250000000000000♠251996Twenty-six delivered; McDonnell Douglas built two in the US; the remaining twenty-four assembled in Switzerland between 1996 and 1999; one lost (2016)[12][13][14]F/A-18D USconversion trainer7000500000000000000♠51996Eight delivered, three since lost in crashes (1998, 2013, 2015)[15][16]F-5E TigerUSfighter7001410000000000000♠41[1]1978Patrouille Suisse uses 11[17][18]F-5F TigerUSconversion trainer7001120000000000000♠12[1]1976air policing and electronic warfare[19] PC-6 Porter
transport/utility7001150000000000000♠15[1]1962One PC-6/A Turbo-Porter with Turbomeca Astazou turboprop engine delivered in 1962 used as trials aircraft by Kriegstechnische Abteilung (KTA) (War Technical Department, forerunner to armasuisse). Twelve delivered to air force from 1967, another six delivered from 1976, all as piston-engined PC-6/H2 Porter; converted to PC-6/B2 Turbo-Porter with Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 turboprop engines 1980-81; three since written-off in crashes (1993, 1997, 2003).[20]Pilatus PC-7
trainer7001290000000000000♠29[1]1982Forty originally delivered from 1982; some withdrawn from use and sold or placed in museums; three written-off in crashes (1990, 1994, 2003).[21] The PC-7 Team (an aerobatics team of the Swiss Air Force) uses nine.[22]Pilatus PC-9

70008000000000000[1]
23] PC-21

700080000000000000]
RUAG Ranger

700134000000000000[24]




700130000000000000[25]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


the f-18 and the Tigers Need to be replaced
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