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Old 23.10.2013, 16:30
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F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

News from Tages Anzeiger (in German)

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/panorama...story/18509769
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Old 23.10.2013, 16:54
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

Around 13:35 local, a Swiss Air Force F/A-18D Hornet crashed about 1km NW of Alpnach airfield. No details if the pilot(s) managed to eject prior to impact. Alpnach is a helicopter base, unrelated to jet activities these days. The Hornet was probably operating from Payerne in the west of Switzerland.

Weather was rain, low cloud base. Crash location is the base of Mount Pilatus.

Press conference is scheduled for 17:00 local.
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Old 23.10.2013, 17:08
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

hmmm, this morning as we were walking around Benken, SG at 9:30, 2 fighters flew overhead. I wonder if the ones in this story are the same ones??? Anyone know how long these fly for and over what areas? The ones that flew over us today definitely weren't the Patrouille Suisse, and they were quite loud and impressive...
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Old 23.10.2013, 17:14
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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hmmm, this morning as we were walking around Benken, SG at 9:30, 2 fighters flew overhead. I wonder if the ones in this story are the same ones??? Anyone know how long these fly for and over what areas? The ones that flew over us today definitely weren't the Patrouille Suisse, and they were quite loud and impressive...
Unrelated. Usual Hornet sorties are 60-90 minutes long. I won't speculate here as I probably know those involved. The airplane operated from Meiringen's Unterbach airfield in central Switzerland.

Press conference summary:

One pilot and one non-piloting passenger. Air Force doesn't think that there will be any survivors. Two ship formation departed Meiringen for a training mission VFR flight for one vs one dogfight. Due to poor weather the single seat Hornet climbed out of the valley and flew IFR back to base, the twin seater tried to turn back in the same fashion but crashed. No further details. Military investigation has commenced.
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Last edited by Assassin; 23.10.2013 at 18:27. Reason: New details
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Old 23.10.2013, 17:20
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

That's why there's been a fair bit of traffic over my house, recently - although not today.

Immaterial of how long the sorties are, they're always heading back to Payerne just before 12, for lunch and just before 5 for feierabend.
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Old 23.10.2013, 20:14
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

It appears that the two pilots didn't manage to bail out

http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/ad...d=22&fromval=1
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Old 23.10.2013, 20:26
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

It seems that a pilot that has to eject twice from a fighterplane, does not have the right to go for more rides because the eject system seems to be so powerful that they affect the spine by contracting it.

Also, blowing up two costly planes might not be to the taste of everyone
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Old 23.10.2013, 20:32
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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It seems that a pilot that has to eject twice from a fighterplane, does not have the right to go for more rides because the eject system seems to be so powerful that they affect the spine by contracting it.

Also, blowing up two costly planes might not be to the taste of everyone
Not funny since it looks like two people have lost their lives in this crash Lammhaxe.

If confirmed, my condolences to their families and friends.
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Old 23.10.2013, 21:11
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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Not funny since it looks like two people have lost their lives in this crash Lammhaxe.

If confirmed, my condolences to their families and friends.
My appologies, the comment was not ment on the accident itself but on the ejectable seat rules

Regards
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Old 23.10.2013, 21:40
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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That's why there's been a fair bit of traffic over my house, recently - although not today.

Immaterial of how long the sorties are, they're always heading back to Payerne just before 12, for lunch and just before 5 for feierabend.
I've noticed that too. We get quite a lot of them around here too and very noisy they are too.

Very sad event.
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Old 23.10.2013, 23:22
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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It seems that a pilot that has to eject twice from a fighterplane, does not have the right to go for more rides because the eject system seems to be so powerful that they affect the spine by contracting it.

Also, blowing up two costly planes might not be to the taste of everyone
ONE plane. The other one returned to base
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Old 23.10.2013, 23:43
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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ONE plane. The other one returned to base
The poster referred (as a non-sequitur, completely unrelated to this sad event) to pilots who have a history of two ejections, which would imply two crashed aircraft.

I wonder what effect this will have on the expected referendum on the purchase of the Saab fighter aircraft. I'd have thought it would be another big argument against investing more public money in fighter planes, but perhaps the need for newer fighters is now more apparent.
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Old 24.10.2013, 08:38
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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The poster referred (as a non-sequitur, completely unrelated to this sad event) to pilots who have a history of two ejections, which would imply two crashed aircraft.

I wonder what effect this will have on the expected referendum on the purchase of the Saab fighter aircraft. I'd have thought it would be another big argument against investing more public money in fighter planes, but perhaps the need for newer fighters is now more apparent.
The question about the new Saab fighters is THE question about the armed forces. A NO against them would be a NO against the army as an army without an airforce is nothing, or just a "Trachtenverein"

And that accidents can happen is clear anyway
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Old 24.10.2013, 09:20
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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ONE plane. The other one returned to base
Hi,

I think I did not express myself clearly, my post is unrelated to the accident itself.
It is related to the rules of air forces related to ejects after incidents and how it affects the pilots.

I always forget that in forums, expression can not be stated the same as in a face to face conversation.

Hopefully no one was hurt in this accident and the crew makes it safe home

Regards

Last edited by Lammhaxe; 24.10.2013 at 09:23. Reason: adjusting english
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Old 24.10.2013, 09:22
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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The question about the new Saab fighters is THE question about the armed forces. A NO against them would be a NO against the army as an army without an airforce is nothing, or just a "Trachtenverein"

And that accidents can happen is clear anyway
Well, Vietnam is a clear example that air force does not necessarily gives advantage.
I would have expected in Switzerland to mostly focus on guerrilla warfare, am I mistaken on that?
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Old 24.10.2013, 09:25
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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Hi,

I think I did not express myself clearly, my post is unrelated to the accident itself.
It is related to the rules of air forces related to ejects after incidents and how it affects the pilots.

I always forget that in forums, expression can not be stated the same as in a face to face conversation.

Hopefully no one was hurt in this accident and the crew made it safe

Regards
If a pilot had to eject twice in non-war-times, the airforce of course will question his fitness for the job. The doctors will check up his medical condition. The psychiatrists also will conduct checks. The accident experts do a full investigations. And final decisions will be taken upon full and conclusive results.
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Old 24.10.2013, 09:28
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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Well, Vietnam is a clear example that air force does not necessarily gives advantage.
I would have expected in Switzerland to mostly focus on guerrilla warfare, am I mistaken on that?
An airforce is not all about fighters, in fact fighters are a very small part of an airforce.

I think The Falklands, Iraq and Afghanistan have proved recently that an Air Force gives a huge advantage.
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Old 24.10.2013, 09:28
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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If a pilot had to eject twice in non-war-times, the airforce of course will question his fitness for the job. The doctors will check up his medical condition. The psychiatrists also will conduct checks. The accident experts do a full investigations. And final decisions will be taken upon full and conclusive results.
Not necessarily the pilot's mistake. But the effect on the spine are really hard as the pressure to eject the pilot far and fast is so powerful that it makes it fragile.
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Old 24.10.2013, 09:28
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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Well, Vietnam is a clear example that air force does not necessarily gives advantage.
I would have expected in Switzerland to mostly focus on guerrilla warfare, am I mistaken on that?
The lack of airforce-strength made North Vietnam a free target for the USAF

Guerilla warfare is NOT focussed in Switzerland. The armed forces of Switzerland are as conventional as conventional can be. So, YES, you
ARE MISTAKEN on that
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Old 24.10.2013, 09:30
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Re: F/A-18 has crashed in Obwalden

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An airforce is not all about fighters, in fact fighters are a very small part of an airforce.

I think The Falklands, Iraq and Afghanistan have proved recently that an Air Force gives a huge advantage.
Falkland, yes because air fore was fighting conventional army.
Afghan and Iraq, well, it depends. For Iraq, when fighting the conventional army, airforce was excellent. But when it switched to guerrilla, it reduced a lot it's advantage.
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