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  #221  
Old 26.02.2014, 16:48
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

The Google Translate of the above (note it says suspended for 2014-2015, not "gone forever" and that it will not affect students already here:

"The spokesman of the European Commission confirmed on Wednesday that Switzerland will be suspended from the European Erasmus program + from 2014-2015 academic year.

Swiss students will be excluded from European Erasmus program + from the upcoming 2014-2015 academic year, from the Fall 2014 semester. This was said Wednesday a spokesman for the European Commission.

Academics who are already abroad under this program may continue their studies. But they may well be the last to enjoy Swiss, added the spokesman.

After the acceptance of the initiative "Against mass immigration" February 9, agreements that promote the mobility of students within Europe were suspended by Brussels (read: Brussels freezes Erasmus agreements and Research Switzerland)."
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  #222  
Old 26.02.2014, 18:15
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Again in topic:

it is official that we are considered third country for what it concerns EU projects.

We can participate on the expenses of Switzerland.

No surplus, a lot of funding lost basically.

No ERC, no marie curie, nothing with mobility.
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  #223  
Old 26.02.2014, 18:23
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The Google Translate of the above (note it says suspended for 2014-2015, not "gone forever" and that it will not affect students already here:

"The spokesman of the European Commission confirmed on Wednesday that Switzerland will be suspended from the European Erasmus program + from 2014-2015 academic year.

Swiss students will be excluded from European Erasmus program + from the upcoming 2014-2015 academic year, from the Fall 2014 semester. This was said Wednesday a spokesman for the European Commission.

Academics who are already abroad under this program may continue their studies. But they may well be the last to enjoy Swiss, added the spokesman.

After the acceptance of the initiative "Against mass immigration" February 9, agreements that promote the mobility of students within Europe were suspended by Brussels (read: Brussels freezes Erasmus agreements and Research Switzerland)."
Yes, sadly so.

EU-Commisioner Làszló Andor officially informed the European parliament today.
He also said that for Horizon 2020 Switzerland would no longer be considered an "associated country" but will be treated as a "third country".

He also said "business as usual" is not an option.

Sad story but no surprises
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  #224  
Old 26.02.2014, 20:22
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Sorry for asking a very stupid question, but I was hoping to find a job and move to Switzerland later this year. When do the restrictions come into place?

Thanks
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  #225  
Old 26.02.2014, 20:38
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Official communication here:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release....htm?locale=en
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  #226  
Old 26.02.2014, 20:41
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Are you trying to liken the Cantons of Switzerland to European nations!? How odd ...
It is not odd at all, the Cantons are to Switzerland, what the individual states are to the EU. We have said that we are not willing to all Croatian citizens the same right of access as citizens of German or France or where ever and that means we are treating some EU citizens differently to others. And is a big No No as far as the EU is concerned.

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And we are in no way limited to those "three choices" since Article 18 gives either party to the agreement the right to call for revision and renegotiation! So the EU can say "not interested" all it likes, however it doesn't really matter since the agreement makes provision for what the EU states it's "not interested" in!
It is very hard to negotiate with someone who does not want to negotiate and on top of that the recent vote requires us to negotiate a new agreement within 3 years or terminate the current one, so there is not much room for movement, especially if the first task is to actually get the other side even interested in negotiating!
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  #227  
Old 26.02.2014, 20:52
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The Google Translate of the above (note it says suspended for 2014-2015, not "gone forever" and that it will not affect students already here:

"The spokesman of the European Commission confirmed on Wednesday that Switzerland will be suspended from the European Erasmus program + from 2014-2015 academic year.

Swiss students will be excluded from European Erasmus program + from the upcoming 2014-2015 academic year, from the Fall 2014 semester. This was said Wednesday a spokesman for the European Commission.

Academics who are already abroad under this program may continue their studies. But they may well be the last to enjoy Swiss, added the spokesman.

After the acceptance of the initiative "Against mass immigration" February 9, agreements that promote the mobility of students within Europe were suspended by Brussels (read: Brussels freezes Erasmus agreements and Research Switzerland)."
Suspended until further notice is gone. Then we can discuss the degrees of "gone". it is a reversible "gone" sure.
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  #228  
Old 26.02.2014, 20:57
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The Google Translate of the above (note it says suspended for 2014-2015, not "gone forever" and that it will not affect students already here:

"The spokesman of the European Commission confirmed on Wednesday that Switzerland will be suspended from the European Erasmus program + from 2014-2015 academic year.

Swiss students will be excluded from European Erasmus program + from the upcoming 2014-2015 academic year, from the Fall 2014 semester. This was said Wednesday a spokesman for the European Commission.

Academics who are already abroad under this program may continue their studies. But they may well be the last to enjoy Swiss, added the spokesman.

After the acceptance of the initiative "Against mass immigration" February 9, agreements that promote the mobility of students within Europe were suspended by Brussels (read: Brussels freezes Erasmus agreements and Research Switzerland)."
The Swiss universities in this case have no alternative than to join the Coimbra program, and will do so. And also intensify exchange programs with the USA

If the EU also blocks Swiss scienctific research from the Horizon-2020, the universities and institutes have to get into partnerships with non-EU institutions.

All this was and is not the wish of the universities, but they have to find solutions, and to find and implement them swiftly
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  #229  
Old 26.02.2014, 21:08
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Again in topic:

it is official that we are considered third country for what it concerns EU projects.

We can participate on the expenses of Switzerland.

No surplus, a lot of funding lost basically.

No ERC, no marie curie, nothing with mobility.
Sure, ALL solutions will cost lots of money. A lot of money already lost and more money to be lost in the next two years.
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  #230  
Old 26.02.2014, 21:13
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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You're talking about those pesky NO voters, aren't you?

Tom
No, about the YES-voters who wanted to manifest their anger
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  #231  
Old 26.02.2014, 21:26
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The Swiss universities in this case have no alternative than to join the Coimbra program, and will do so. And also intensify exchange programs with the USA

If the EU also blocks Swiss scienctific research from the Horizon-2020, the universities and institutes have to get into partnerships with non-EU institutions.

All this was and is not the wish of the universities, but they have to find solutions, and to find and implement them swiftly
Hi Wolly

I know you want to avert panic and your heart is in the right place.

But

Coimbra is not the same as H2020. It is like trying to replace a 60 ton truck with a Smart!

Look at how many billions are committed to H2020; look at the the associates.

Of course the universities will do their best.
Their challenges are
  • To keep first class researchers
  • To find enough funding
  • To find the right quality of associates
  • To maintain momentum
to keep Swiss universities in a prime position and to avoid a downward spiral.

I hope in two years the future looks better than now
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  #232  
Old 26.02.2014, 21:38
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Yes, sadly so.

EU-Commissioner Làszló Andor officially informed the European parliament today.
He also said that for Horizon 2020 Switzerland would no longer be considered an "associated country" but will be treated as a "third country".

He also said "business as usual" is not an option.

Sad story but no surprises
According to the newspapers during the debate in the European Parliament on the future relations with Switzerland following EU-Commissioner Làszló Andor there was an uproar. One MEP was expelled and others were disciplined; the general view was that Switzerland must compromise not the EU.

Of course how much actual power these people in the European Parliament have is debatable.
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  #233  
Old 26.02.2014, 21:46
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Hi Wolly

I know you want to avert panic and your heart is in the right place.

But

Coimbra is not the same as H2020. It is like trying to replace a 60 ton truck with a Smart!

Look at how many billions are committed to H2020; look at the the associates.

Of course the universities will do their best.
Their challenges are
  • To keep first class researchers
  • To find enough funding
  • To find the right quality of associates
  • To maintain momentum
to keep Swiss universities in a prime position and to avoid a downward spiral.

I hope in two years the future looks better than now
There is also the problem of image caused by this vote.
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  #234  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:02
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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No, about the YES-voters who wanted to manifest their anger
Interestingly, a colleague told us today that of his 4 kids, half Peruvian, half Ticinese, and all studying in ZH (ages 19-24), only the eldest voted NO.

Also, bulk of the YES people at work were the younger people.

Lastly, no doom and gloom is expected by either side here.

Tom
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  #235  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:07
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Interestingly, a colleague told us today that of his 4 kids, half Peruvian, half Ticinese, and all studying in ZH (ages 19-24), only the eldest voted NO.

Also, bulk of the YES people at work were the younger people.

Lastly, no doom and gloom is expected by either side here.

Tom
And this is a statistically significant number?

About "Lastly, no doom and gloom is expected by either side here." - thank you; this makes me feel really relieved.

I suppose you did not yet read the latest today on Erasmus and H2020?
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  #236  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:09
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I suppose you did not yet read the latest today on Erasmus and H2020?
We discussed that too.

Erasmus sends 50% more to CH then CH to them.

So who stands to lose?

Tom
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  #237  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:10
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Yes, sadly so.

EU-Commisioner Làszló Andor officially informed the European parliament today.
He also said that for Horizon 2020 Switzerland would no longer be considered an "associated country" but will be treated as a "third country".

He also said "business as usual" is not an option.

Sad story but no surprises
> What does "third country" really mean in practice ?
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  #238  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:12
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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And this is a statistically significant number?
Yes. It explains the vote here (similar percentage).

Tom
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  #239  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:20
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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> What does "third country" really mean in practice ?
That Switzerland finances projects by itself to participate in H2020.

The Human Brain project shall be moved elsewhere.

ERC projects cannot be submitted for Switzerland.

Flagship projects cannot be run in Switzerland.

SME oriented research for valorization of companies should not be accessible for the moment.

Concerning acceptance rate... I am not sure. I am sure that the image of Switzerland at the moment represents a risk within a EU project.

S.
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  #240  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:25
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Hi Wolly

I know you want to avert panic and your heart is in the right place.

But

Coimbra is not the same as H2020. It is like trying to replace a 60 ton truck with a Smart!

Look at how many billions are committed to H2020; look at the the associates.

Of course the universities will do their best.
Their challenges are
  • To keep first class researchers
  • To find enough funding
  • To find the right quality of associates
  • To maintain momentum
to keep Swiss universities in a prime position and to avoid a downward spiral.

I hope in two years the future looks better than now
Coimbra may not be the same as Erasmus, but a Smart is better than a donkey. And if Geneva can work with Coimbra, why not Zürich and Basel

Anyway, the universities cannot wait a year or two but find solutions. Erasmus and Horizon-2020 were their first choice, they now will have to accept some lesser options. They had the people in their Cantons behind them but now, being attacked by such "komische Käuze" like this Hungarian EU-crat, have to take what is available. A colleague who studied political sciences at Zürich University years ago got the chance vi some program unknown to me to study in the Moscow university for a year and enjoyed it. Let's hope that some deals can be concluded with Russia. Mr Andor then will get a heart-attack
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