Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
We discussed that too.

Erasmus sends 50% more to CH then CH to them.

So who stands to lose?

Tom
Not sure I understand this concept of in/out.

Switzerland loses both in and out.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at SteAlka for this post:
  #242  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Why do you groan me.

I am reporting you how it works.
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:29
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
We discussed that too.

Erasmus sends 50% more to CH then CH to them.

So who stands to lose?

Tom
Please send me a link to the financials that support this statement.
Strangely according to the newspapers today the academics involved are saying it is a big issue and they will need extra "tax" money to fund plan "B".
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:29
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Why do you groan me.

I am reporting you how it works.
It is an emotional vote as explained by Wolli
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #245  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:34
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,243
Groaned at 1,170 Times in 917 Posts
Thanked 25,138 Times in 12,036 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Please send me a link to the financials that support this statement.
Tomorrow, the link is on one of my work computers.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #246  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:36
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
That Switzerland finances projects by itself to participate in H2020.
-
No alternative. Either the union does or Zürich or Basel or Geneva



Quote:
View Post
The Human Brain project shall be moved elsewhere.
-
And what if the Canton of Zürich takes over ?


Quote:
View Post
ERC projects cannot be submitted for Switzerland.
-
I suppose that good projects can be pushed ahead either with CH financing or outside the ERC, for example in conjunction with Russia


Quote:
View Post
Flagship projects cannot be run in Switzerland.
-
what if becoming CH-financed ?


Quote:
View Post
SME oriented research for valorization of companies should not be accessible for the moment.
-
What is the actual value of such "valorization research " ?


Quote:
View Post
Concerning acceptance rate... I am not sure. I am sure that the image of Switzerland at the moment represents a risk within a EU project.
-
Sure but here, innovative solutions may be required. Imagine a Chinese-Indian-Austrian-Swiss group participating in an EU project under the Austrian flag. Extraordinary circumstances demand extraordinary solutions


************************************************** ***********************


Quote:
View Post
There is also the problem of image caused by this vote.
No problem. Such "image problems" occurred in the past upon equally bad votes. Thoroughly embarrassing indeed but to be overcome.

Last edited by Wollishofener; 26.02.2014 at 22:50.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #247  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
-
No alternative. Either the union does or Zürich or Basel or Geneva
Scale. Not Possible.

Quote:
And what if the Canton of Zürich takes over ?
Rules. Not possible.

Quote:
I suppose that good projects can be pushed ahead either with CH financing or outside the ERC, for example in conjunction with Russia
Loss of prestige, visibility. ERC are seen as the best fellowships for the EU.

Quote:
what if becoming CH-financed ?
Scale. Not possible.

Quote:
What is the actual value of such "valorization research " ?
Bilions for Switzerland. Hundreds of billions for the EU.

Quote:
Sure but here, innovative solutions may be required. Imagine a Chinese-Indian-Austrian-Swiss group participating in an EU project under the Austrian flag. Extraordinary circumstances demand extraordinary solutions
With what money would you run such programs? Why should a Austrian, Indian, Swiss project be interesting for an Austrian partner, unless it has an acceptance rate of 50% with 20 pages writing?

Possible, yes, interesting, not sure.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SteAlka for this useful post:
  #248  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
It is an emotional vote as explained by Wolli
An emovote.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SteAlka for this useful post:
  #249  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:52
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,243
Groaned at 1,170 Times in 917 Posts
Thanked 25,138 Times in 12,036 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
An emovote.
Which votes aren't?

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #250  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:56
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Coimbra may not be the same as Erasmus, but a Smart is better than a donkey. And if Geneva can work with Coimbra, why not Zürich and Basel

Anyway, the universities cannot wait a year or two but find solutions. Erasmus and Horizon-2020 were their first choice, they now will have to accept some lesser options. They had the people in their Cantons behind them but now, being attacked by such "komische Käuze" like this Hungarian EU-crat, have to take what is available. A colleague who studied political sciences at Zürich University years ago got the chance vi some program unknown to me to study in the Moscow university for a year and enjoyed it. Let's hope that some deals can be concluded with Russia. Mr Andor then will get a heart-attack
The nice thing was to be able to chose where to go, because at a certain point we decided altogether that it was a nice possibility for everybody.
Reply With Quote
  #251  
Old 26.02.2014, 22:57
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 7,577
Groaned at 51 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 11,490 Times in 5,392 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
That Switzerland finances projects by itself to participate in H2020.

The Human Brain project shall be moved elsewhere.

ERC projects cannot be submitted for Switzerland.

Flagship projects cannot be run in Switzerland.

SME oriented research for valorization of companies should not be accessible for the moment.

Concerning acceptance rate... I am not sure. I am sure that the image of Switzerland at the moment represents a risk within a EU project.

S.
Do you have some sources to back this up? My understanding is that some contracts have already been signed and are unaffected, at least in the near term. For example EPFL has said that the Human Brain Project is still funded for at least 30 months, with no indications it will be moved.
Reply With Quote
  #252  
Old 26.02.2014, 23:00
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Which votes aren't?

Tom
Those for Russian skaters in Sotchi were not.
Reply With Quote
  #253  
Old 26.02.2014, 23:01
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Do you have some sources to back this up? My understanding is that some contracts have already been signed and are unaffected, at least in the near term. For example EPFL has said that the Human Brain Project is still funded for at least 30 months, with no indications it will be moved.
http://ec.europa.eu/research/partici...ss-part_en.pdf

Human Brain is ok for the next 30 months. Then if they reach a better deal, then maybe nothing happens.

For the moment, if a flagship project calls comes out, Switzerland cannot participate due to third country status.
Reply With Quote
  #254  
Old 26.02.2014, 23:03
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
That Switzerland finances projects by itself to participate in H2020.

The Human Brain project shall be moved elsewhere.

ERC projects cannot be submitted for Switzerland.

Flagship projects cannot be run in Switzerland.

SME oriented research for valorization of companies should not be accessible for the moment.

Concerning acceptance rate... I am not sure. I am sure that the image of Switzerland at the moment represents a risk within a EU project.

S.
After the EU Commission's decision today then is open, among other things, the fate of the multi-billion EU research project "Human Brain Project".
This is today led by the ETH Lausanne (EPFL). The start of the work was last October. Led by the EPFL, the human brain will be studied worldwide.
The struggle for the leadership of the prestigious project was won by the Lausanne researchers.
It can now no longer be run by a "third country"; like Switzerland?

H2020 and Erasmus together have a 95Billion Euro budget.
I do not see Swiss taxpayers agreeing to pay more than a fraction of this in the future??

As Wolli says an Asia/Russia/Swiss project is possible but Antonio Loprieno, president of the Rectors' Conference of Swiss Universities, fears the possible impact of the research funding freeze.

Swiss universities risk losing international status and becoming isolated, Loprieno warned. "If our institutions are marginalised, that would, for me, be at least as damaging as financial losses,".

If the EU take their 95Billion Euro budget away from Lausanne and move it to another EU university do you think the existing rare and highly qualified Lausanne researchers will hang around to join a possible and new Asia/Russia/Swiss project?
Or do you think they will join their colleagues in the new EU location with its guaranteed funding?
Apart from the fact that they probably will be feeling betrayed by Switzerland because their comfortable niche in Lausanne disappeared??
Reply With Quote
  #255  
Old 26.02.2014, 23:05
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
After the EU Commission's decision today then is open, among other things, the fate of the multi-billion EU research project "Human Brain Project".
This is today led by the ETH Lausanne (EPFL). The start of the work was last October. Led by the EPFL, the human brain will be studied worldwide.
The struggle for the leadership of the prestigious project was won by the Lausanne researchers.
It can now no longer be run by a "third country"; like Switzerland?

H2020 and Erasmus together have a 95Billion Euro budget.
I do not see Swiss taxpayers agreeing to pay more than a fraction of this in the future??

As Wolli says an Asia/Russia/Swiss project is possible but Antonio Loprieno, president of the Rectors' Conference of Swiss Universities, fears the possible impact of the research funding freeze.

Swiss universities risk losing international status and becoming isolated, Loprieno warned. "If our institutions are marginalised, that would, for me, be at least as damaging as financial losses,".

If the EU take their 95Billion Euro budget away from Lausanne and move it to another EU university do you think the existing rare and highly qualified Lausanne researchers will hang around to join a possible and new Asia/Russia/Swiss project?
Or do you think they will join their colleagues in the new EU location with its guaranteed funding?
Apart from the fact that they probably will be feeling betrayed by Switzerland because their comfortable niche in Lausanne disappeared??
95 Billion Euro in Lausanne... man there would be people riding cosmic beams while playing an hukulele at EPFL if that was the case .

Maybe you meant 95 milion euros?
Reply With Quote
  #256  
Old 26.02.2014, 23:07
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
-
No alternative. Either the union does or Zürich or Basel or Geneva




-
And what if the Canton of Zürich takes over ?



-
I suppose that good projects can be pushed ahead either with CH financing or outside the ERC, for example in conjunction with Russia



-
what if becoming CH-financed ?



-
What is the actual value of such "valorization research " ?



-
Sure but here, innovative solutions may be required. Imagine a Chinese-Indian-Austrian-Swiss group participating in an EU project under the Austrian flag. Extraordinary circumstances demand extraordinary solutions


************************************************** ***********************




No problem. Such "image problems" occurred in the past upon equally bad votes. Thoroughly embarrassing indeed but to be overcome.
About "And what if the Canton of Zürich takes over ?" Sure, they just put their 90Billion euro budget in the pot; do the diplomatic negotiations to ensure the existing researchers from all countries stay involved.....
Persuade the EU to allow this approach...
Reply With Quote
  #257  
Old 26.02.2014, 23:10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
About "And what if the Canton of Zürich takes over ?" Sure, they just put their 90Billion euro budget in the pot; do the diplomatic negotiations to ensure the existing researchers from all countries stay involved.....
Persuade the EU to allow this approach...
This 90 billion figure is intriguing, .
Reply With Quote
  #258  
Old 26.02.2014, 23:11
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
95 Billion Euro in Lausanne... man there would be people riding cosmic beams while playing an hukulele at EPFL if that was the case .

Maybe you meant 95 milion euros?
I don't know -I just quoted the newspaper report which says "H2020 and Erasmus together have a 95Billion Euro budget."

I assume this is the budget for the whole project?
This EU official site puts the H2020 budget alone at circa 80Billion euros
http://www.eutrainingsite.com/2014-2020.php?id=106

How much each project will get is open to negotiation?
Reply With Quote
  #259  
Old 26.02.2014, 23:13
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post

Scale. Not Possible.
-
In that case, the Swiss universities have to find other partners in the world. Possibly just capture a manageable part of an existing program and tear it out


Quote:
View Post
Rules. Not possible.
-
If the rules are making it impossible, get other partners and it becomes possible


Quote:
View Post
Loss of prestige, visibility. ERC are seen as the best fellowships for the EU.
-
and even if it is the best fellowships, if no longer accessible, replacements are to be found --- and WILL BE FOUND


Quote:
View Post
Scale. Not possible.
-
again, if too large, capture parts and tear those part out of the total. And again, find other partners.


Quote:
View Post
Bilions for Switzerland. Hundreds of billions for the EU.
-
This hints to Switzerland only having been absolutely insignifant in this regard.- But to try to get interesting parts out of the schemes and bring it into new partnerships will be worth the efforts.

Quote:
View Post
With what money would you run such programs? Why should a Austrian, Indian, Swiss project be interesting for an Austrian partner, unless it has an acceptance rate of 50% with 20 pages writing?
India and China would supply the SCIENTISTS
Austria would supply the diplomats
Switzerland would supply infrastructure and financing
Liechtenstein would supply the financial HQs
-
all five would profit, while I freely admit that the PRC and FL are slightly different in size



************************************************** *

Statements like "not possible" "scale" "against the rules" to me are surrenderisms. People like Alfred von Escher refused to accept such "arguments". Had they accepted such surrenderisms, Switzerland would still be the place it was by 1750

People like Guillaume Henri Dufour, Hans Herzog, Henri Guisan and Friedrich Traugott Wahlen rejected "Defaitism" but made all the required compromises, exactly in times of crisis and distress
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #260  
Old 26.02.2014, 23:17
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Which votes aren't?

Tom
Good point really. Exactly why Winston Churchill regarded democracy as the LEAST WORST political system

************************************************** ********************************************


Quote:
View Post
According to the newspapers during the debate in the European Parliament on the future relations with Switzerland following EU-Commissioner Làszló Andor there was an uproar. One MEP was expelled and others were disciplined; the general view was that Switzerland must compromise not the EU.

Of course how much actual power these people in the European Parliament have is debatable.
Debatable is how much brain those EP members have in their heads, possibly just SOUP FOR BRAIN. It is clearly known, also outside Switzerland, that compromise proposal are worked on in Switzerland. It is also known outside Switzerland, that the university Cantons / university Cities voted clearly NO. Nobody with brains in the head attacks the allies. As those EP-MPs do, it becomes clear to me that I overestimated the whole pack quite a lot

************************************************** ***********************************

Quote:
View Post
Suspended until further notice is gone. Then we can discuss the degrees of "gone". it is a reversible "gone" sure.
So sorry but you have to make your mind up. If you say that Erasmus is superior, and a moment later make it clear that Erasmus for Switzerland is DEAD, than it lacks logic. As I see that Erasmus is DEAD now, the universities here have to find replacements with top speed right now

Last edited by Wollishofener; 26.02.2014 at 23:34.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
erasmus, european union, fmop, horizon, immigration, masseneinwanderung, vote




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Immigration status of Non-EU starting a business in Switzerland alesco Business & entrepreneur 28 09.11.2015 14:26
Masseneinwanderung [Immigration] vote - Facts Slaphead Swiss politics/news 4 29.06.2014 19:59
Is there any age limits to starting a PhD? Breezy Family matters/health 15 18.11.2012 01:23
Immigration limits in the UK: what about scientists? HashBrown International affairs/politics 5 08.10.2010 00:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0