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  #341  
Old 27.02.2014, 15:07
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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It is all very Kafkaesque
We could finish up in a situation where we have quotas that bring in more immigrants than pre-initiative and to get there we had to make a lot of concessions....
Very possible.

To the poster who is banging on about Lichtenstein having quotas. If you actually have looked up the agreement Lichtenstein has with the EU, it specifies that the foreign population cannot exceed 33%.

Am sure the SVP would deep down love that, since the federal council agreeing to actually increase the percentage of foreigners in CH will again hand them leverage for the next nationalistic initiative.

Even assuming the EU agreed to a 33% cap, the text in the initiative about the Swiss getting priority for jobs is no way compatible with the FMoP.

The demonstration of ignorance continues ...
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  #342  
Old 27.02.2014, 15:12
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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It is all very Kafkaesque
We could finish up in a situation where we have quotas that bring in more immigrants than pre-initiative and to get there we had to make a lot of concessions....
I brought this up in my contact with the DEA and was assured this was not the attitude of the Federal Government. But yes hypothetically this would be in the realm of possibility.
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  #343  
Old 27.02.2014, 15:14
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The demonstration of ignorance continues ...
We aim to please ...
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  #344  
Old 27.02.2014, 16:19
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Yes, Switzerland. When they changed their constitution the first time around to allow FMOP.

One of the conditions of joining the EU, or becoming an EU associate, for every member, is the compatability of that country's constitution (or equivelent) with the EU.

Did you think the constitution was a sacred document that could only be amended by the swiss, and without any external influence?

Dave.
I am going to let Tom answer this one ... should be fun!!
Take it away Tom!
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  #345  
Old 27.02.2014, 16:38
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I am going to let Tom answer this one ... should be fun!!
Take it away Tom!

Is that code for 'I hadnt realised that'?
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  #346  
Old 27.02.2014, 16:46
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Did you think the constitution was a sacred document that could only be amended by the swiss, and without any external influence?
Yes.

Still do.

Tom
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  #347  
Old 27.02.2014, 18:22
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

A bit tangential: while I have been following the thread, I got a reminder about the manifestation tomorrowin Bern.

http://geneve.unia.ch/

I know that EPFL and UNIL people also got information about the "une mobilisation nationale".

Do not think it will change much...
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  #348  
Old 27.02.2014, 18:24
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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It is all very Kafkaesque
We could finish up in a situation where we have quotas that bring in more immigrants than pre-initiative and to get there we had to make a lot of concessions....
Exactly the mess we find ourselves in with the Weber initiative
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  #349  
Old 27.02.2014, 19:34
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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i brought this up in my contact with the dea and was assured this was not the attitude of the federal government. But yes hypothetically this would be in the realm of possibility.
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uh ... So he is a big and mighty bureaucrat ... So what!? ..........
lol, :d :d
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  #350  
Old 27.02.2014, 20:16
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

I have been having some incredible discussions and debates with other (Swiss) people on the topic of Horizon 2020, and finally got into the nitty-gritty details ... gosh ... not very fun ...

But here are some things I have found ...

FP6
- The total financial gain to Switzerland from FP6 (2003 - 2007) was 19.2 million CHF. - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source PDF)

FP7
- "Based on the data received on the cut-off date of 15 June 2012, the Confederation paid the EU a total of CHF 1.570 billion to enable Swiss researchers to take part in FP7 whereas Swiss researchers managed to secure CHF 1.559 billion in FP funding from the EU. This means that Switzerland's financial contributions to FP7 and the amount of funding secured thus far by Swiss researchers as of 15 June 2012 is about the same." - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source PDF)

The final report on FP7 is expected to be released in 2016

FP8
- As of the 10th of September 2013 the Swiss contribution (investment) into FP8 (Horizon2020) stands at 4.4 billion CHF. - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source)

I am glad I looked into this more in-depth ... certainly nothing worth panicking about.
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  #351  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:08
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I have been having some incredible discussions and debates with other (Swiss) people on the topic of Horizon 2020, and finally got into the nitty-gritty details ... gosh ... not very fun ...

But here are some things I have found ...

FP6
- The total financial gain to Switzerland from FP6 (2003 - 2007) was 19.2 million CHF. - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source PDF)

FP7
- "Based on the data received on the cut-off date of 15 June 2012, the Confederation paid the EU a total of CHF 1.570 billion to enable Swiss researchers to take part in FP7 whereas Swiss researchers managed to secure CHF 1.559 billion in FP funding from the EU. This means that Switzerland's financial contributions to FP7 and the amount of funding secured thus far by Swiss researchers as of 15 June 2012 is about the same." - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source PDF)

The final report on FP7 is expected to be released in 2016

FP8
- As of the 10th of September 2013 the Swiss contribution (investment) into FP8 (Horizon2020) stands at 4.4 billion CHF. - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source)

I am glad I looked into this more in-depth ... certainly nothing worth panicking about.
About "I am glad I looked into this more in-depth ... certainly nothing worth panicking about. "

Well of course you will not panic; it is not your job or your career that depends on the continued flow of EU funding?
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  #352  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:10
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The question i would ask myself if i was you, is that are you absolutely sure, 100%, that the EU will not make a couple of small sacrifiec to prevent these sorts of actions spreading? Im not.

Switzerland hasnt broken agreements yet, but it has proclaimed it will.

Lichtenstein is considered a microstate which, administratively, is very different to Switzerland. The rules are very different too, and i would remember that Lichtenstein gives far more to the EU then it gets back, something which doesnt apply to Switzerland.

I would add that when Lichtenstein agreed the changes to its immigration policy, it did so proactively with the EU, and didnt cancel any agreements. It did, in essence, respect the EU enough to make the changes the way they were supposed to. Even still, concessions were made, including making it much easier for residents to gain citizenship.
Switzerland has NOT proclaimed to break ANY agreements. And the initiative does NOT demand breaking any agreements but to re-negotiate some parts of one of the agreements. NO breaking of agreements or treaties.
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  #353  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:16
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I have been having some incredible discussions and debates with other (Swiss) people on the topic of Horizon 2020, and finally got into the nitty-gritty details ... gosh ... not very fun ...

But here are some things I have found ...

FP6
- The total financial gain to Switzerland from FP6 (2003 - 2007) was 19.2 million CHF. - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source PDF)

FP7
- "Based on the data received on the cut-off date of 15 June 2012, the Confederation paid the EU a total of CHF 1.570 billion to enable Swiss researchers to take part in FP7 whereas Swiss researchers managed to secure CHF 1.559 billion in FP funding from the EU. This means that Switzerland's financial contributions to FP7 and the amount of funding secured thus far by Swiss researchers as of 15 June 2012 is about the same." - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source PDF)

The final report on FP7 is expected to be released in 2016

FP8
- As of the 10th of September 2013 the Swiss contribution (investment) into FP8 (Horizon2020) stands at 4.4 billion CHF. - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source)

I am glad I looked into this more in-depth ... certainly nothing worth panicking about.
About the link you posted "- As of the 10th of September 2013 the Swiss contribution (investment) into FP8 (Horizon2020) stands at 4.4 billion CHF. - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source)"

Did you read the parts about the potential impact of Erasmus and H2020 changes on Switzerland? This information is in the top left corner.
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  #354  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:20
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Are you suggesting that Erasmus+ is not continuing in 2016, and that Horizon 2020 is not continuing past the end of 2014?
I think you know what postponed means
Solutions have to be found for 2014 and 2015 and 2016 and 2017, and they have to be found NOW

"Postponed" would be postponed until mid April, but what I hear from the EU folks is NOT that way, not at all. So that the CH universities have to replace the two programs as swiftly as possible, and to tear out whatever they can
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  #355  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:21
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Switzerland has NOT proclaimed to break ANY agreements. And the initiative does NOT demand breaking any agreements but to re-negotiate some parts of one of the agreements. NO breaking of agreements or treaties.
What about Croatia?

From the EU press release "Following this constitutional change, the Swiss Federal Council has informed us that it is still evaluating whether it is in a position to sign the – already negotiated and initialled - Protocol extending the free movement of persons agreement to Croatia.

The Commission has been crystal-clear that we expect this extension as planned, and that we cannot accept different treatments between our Member States in this crucial field. "
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  #356  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:29
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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What about Croatia?

From the EU press release "Following this constitutional change, the Swiss Federal Council has informed us that it is still evaluating whether it is in a position to sign the – already negotiated and initialled - Protocol extending the free movement of persons agreement to Croatia.

The Commission has been crystal-clear that we expect this extension as planned, and that we cannot accept different treatments between our Member States in this crucial field. "
The federal government has told Croatia that it cannot sign until the constitutional proplems here are ironed out BUT that the idea is to sign as soon as possible
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  #357  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:34
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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About the link you posted "- As of the 10th of September 2013 the Swiss contribution (investment) into FP8 (Horizon2020) stands at 4.4 billion CHF. - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source)"

Did you read the parts about the potential impact of Erasmus and H2020 changes on Switzerland? This information is in the top left corner.

Yes I have. Have you?
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  #358  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:36
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Increase in naturalization applications after the 9 February vote

Cantonal administrations in Romandie have noted an increase in applications for naturalization and information requests after the 9 February vote. Some foreigners are worried about their future.

In Vaud, they've gone from an average of 15.8 applications per day to 23.3. Especially from German and French citizens.

An official said that the revision of the Law on Nationality may also have contributed to this phenomenon.

http://www.lematin.ch/suisse/demande...story/10113012
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  #359  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:40
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The federal government has told Croatia that it cannot sign until the constitutional proplems here are ironed out BUT that the idea is to sign as soon as possible
And that is clearly breaking the agreement; "The Commission has been crystal-clear that we expect this extension as planned".

About "to sign as soon as possible"; that is a statement without any defined meaning.
"As soon as possible" could mean next next week, next year, next century, next millenium, some time, never .......

No commercial company would sign a contract with "As soon as possible" as a timescale.
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  #360  
Old 27.02.2014, 21:42
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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FP7
- "Based on the data received on the cut-off date of 15 June 2012, the Confederation paid the EU a total of CHF 1.570 billion to enable Swiss researchers to take part in FP7 whereas Swiss researchers managed to secure CHF 1.559 billion in FP funding from the EU. This means that Switzerland's financial contributions to FP7 and the amount of funding secured thus far by Swiss researchers as of 15 June 2012 is about the same." - http://www.sbfi.admin.ch (Source PDF)

The final report on FP7 is expected to be released in 2016
Some grants will only have started in 2012 and the way that the EC (REA/ERC etc) funds individual research projects means that they hold back significant payments (c. 40% of the grant) throughout the life (and after the end) of the grant.

The figure mentioned above will be a minimum and WILL increase by a significant amount (but no one can say by how much until 2016).
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