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  #441  
Old 01.03.2014, 11:47
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Don't know why....!? You basically repeated what was said ... that Switzerland needs professional immigrants ...

To me a "professional" is not one about what the skill set is, though this does play a role of course, but it's also about ones attitude to life and work etc.
Nice. And now the union has to hire hordes of psychiatrists to judge potential immigrants about attitudes and etc ?
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  #442  
Old 01.03.2014, 11:49
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The initiative is targeted clearly at EU immigration, since Switzerland already controlled immigration from outside the EU (or, more accurately, the EFTA).
Or, even more accurately, the EEA. :-)
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  #443  
Old 01.03.2014, 11:50
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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That the SVP as a large party will be involved and HAS TO BE involved in the implementation.
Agreed!
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  #444  
Old 01.03.2014, 12:16
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Or, even more accurately, the EEA. :-)
Switzerland is a full member of EFTA which roughly is Switzerland and Norway, but unfortunately NEVER joined ti EEA
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  #445  
Old 01.03.2014, 12:46
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Switzerland is a full member of EFTA which roughly is Switzerland and Norway, but unfortunately NEVER joined ti EEA
Spot on, but no one claimed CH does belong to the EEA. This relates to controlling immigration from certain countries (EU/EFTA/EEA).
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  #446  
Old 01.03.2014, 14:45
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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That is your opinion. You see it as "compounding the problem", and I see it as finally something having been done which FORCES the Federal Government to start working on the issues! If you don't see the issues, then that's another issue altogether!

And all this noise being made at the SVP is just infantile since at the end of the day it was the Swiss people who voted for the initiative - are you then insinuating that over 50% of the Swiss electorate who voted are a bunch of brainwashed idiots who cannot think for themselves?!

I don't have to point you to didly squat mate! The SVP made a milestone change in the Swiss Constitution, one which others here agreed should probably never have been undone from the start of the FMOP agreement in Switzerland. You don't like it!? - You don't agree!? - Tough!

You lot need something to hate and sink your teeth into, I get it ... but don't treat the majority of the voting electorate like a herd of cattle - that is NOT on!!
In your second paragraph you say "all this noise being made at the SVP is just infantile since at the end of the day it was the Swiss people who voted for the initiative"

In your third paragraph you say "The SVP made a milestone change in the Swiss Constitution"

Please clarify in your view was it the SVP or was it the Swiss people who made the change?

About "over 50% of the Swiss electorate who voted are a bunch of brainwashed idiots who cannot think for themselves" - No, talking to people after the vote who now see and understand the various reactions from business, EU, unions etc. and also having heard the various clarifications from Blocher and co. (like the Swiss who will get priority for vacant jobs includes anybody with a resident permit "Inländers") I would say it was only 10% in this category.
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  #447  
Old 01.03.2014, 15:01
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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That is your opinion. You see it as "compounding the problem", and I see it as finally something having been done which FORCES the Federal Government to start working on the issues! If you don't see the issues, then that's another issue altogether!

And all this noise being made at the SVP is just infantile since at the end of the day it was the Swiss people who voted for the initiative - are you then insinuating that over 50% of the Swiss electorate who voted are a bunch of brainwashed idiots who cannot think for themselves?!

I don't have to point you to didly squat mate! The SVP made a milestone change in the Swiss Constitution, one which others here agreed should probably never have been undone from the start of the FMOP agreement in Switzerland. You don't like it!? - You don't agree!? - Tough!

You lot need something to hate and sink your teeth into, I get it ... but don't treat the majority of the voting electorate like a herd of cattle - that is NOT on!!
We'll take as no ideas, no policies, just let someone else solve it then..
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  #448  
Old 01.03.2014, 15:06
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Not sure what you are trying to get at with your quoted text ... Are you trying to suggest that the SVP will have nothing to do with the manner in which the Constitutional text is put into practice!?

Let's not waste one another time ... if you think the SVP will have nothing whatsoever to do with the implementation, well so be it .. I think differently!
What I think is not relevant. Only the facts are relevant; the current facts are;
  1. The only public statement I have seen from SVP is Mörgeli saying "It is no longer up to the People’s Party to put the [new] article in the constitution."
  2. The Bundesrat have set up a working party to draft the changes; the SVP were not invited to join

Today the situation is clear. Of course things may change in the future. Was Mörgeli making an agreed SVP position statement or just giving his opinion?
Currently there seem to be a number of different views within the senior SVP people; for example; Spuhler (Stadler-Rail-Chef) gave a newspaper interview where he was threatening to move part of his business abroad if he was blocked from recruiting enough foreigners.
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  #449  
Old 01.03.2014, 23:56
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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  1. The only public statement I have seen from SVP is Mörgeli saying "It is no longer up to the People’s Party to put the [new] article in the constitution."
  2. The Bundesrat have set up a working party to draft the changes; the SVP were not invited to join
1. He is absolutely correct! It is not, nor should it be, up to the SVP, nor any individual political party, to carry out the application of the Swiss Constitution. This is the job of the whole of Switzerland, which includes the Federal Government of course! I myself was told by a DEA representative that everyone in Switzerland is welcome to share ideas and suggestions regarding the implementation.

2. So!? (Can you provide a source on this? I am interested in any developments and have not heard of this one.)
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  #450  
Old 02.03.2014, 03:05
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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1. He is absolutely correct! It is not, nor should it be, up to the SVP, nor any individual political party, to carry out the application of the Swiss Constitution. This is the job of the whole of Switzerland, which includes the Federal Government of course! I myself was told by a DEA representative that everyone in Switzerland is welcome to share ideas and suggestions regarding the implementation.

2. So!? (Can you provide a source on this? I am interested in any developments and have not heard of this one.)

About 1. Typical SVP; create the mess, claim the credit and then walk away when there is work to be done and leave the rest of the country in a "no win" situation trying to sort out the mess with the EU.

About 2. Source is here
Next time you could try a little known thing called Google?
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  #451  
Old 02.03.2014, 09:39
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Spot on, but no one claimed CH does belong to the EEA. This relates to controlling immigration from certain countries (EU/EFTA/EEA).
Not claimed but practically indicated which in a way is worse. The EEA unfortunately now is totally irrelevant
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  #452  
Old 02.03.2014, 12:24
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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1. He is absolutely correct! It is not, nor should it be, up to the SVP, nor any individual political party, to carry out the application of the Swiss Constitution. This is the job of the whole of Switzerland, which includes the Federal Government of course! I myself was told by a DEA representative that everyone in Switzerland is welcome to share ideas and suggestions regarding the implementation.
The question is do they (SVP) have any ideas or proposals on how it should be implemented, not who is responsible for implementing it and the answer is a resounding NO, no matter how you dress it up.
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  #453  
Old 02.03.2014, 12:52
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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1. He is absolutely correct! It is not, nor should it be, up to the SVP, nor any individual political party, to carry out the application of the Swiss Constitution.)
Is it too much asked from a political party to have an idea of what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve whatever is written in their initiative put for referendum?? You seem to think yes. Swiss parliament disagrees with you. Guess whose opinion matters more.
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  #454  
Old 02.03.2014, 16:15
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Ok, I am completely lost in trying to understand your logic...

1. You say that the SVP are without any ideas on how to implement the initiative
2. Then you use the fact that the SVP were not invited to be part of the "Expert Group" as proof that they don't have any ideas

So by your logic...

1. All groups, political parties etc.. who were not invited to be part of the "Expert Group" don't have ideas
2. The reason the SVP (and all other groups and party's) were not invited to be part of the "Expert Group" was because they had no ideas


Is this what your saying!? If so this is utterly illogical!

How can it be said of the SVP that they have no ideas!? How can such a generality be made!?
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  #455  
Old 02.03.2014, 16:38
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Ok, I am completely lost in trying to understand your logic...

1. You say that the SVP are without any ideas on how to implement the initiative
2. Then you use the fact that the SVP were not invited to be part of the "Expert Group" as proof that they don't have any ideas

So by your logic...

1. All groups, political parties etc.. who were not invited to be part of the "Expert Group" don't have ideas
2. The reason the SVP (and all other groups and party's) were not invited to be part of the "Expert Group" was because they had no ideas


Is this what your saying!? If so this is utterly illogical!

How can it be said of the SVP that they have no ideas!? How can such a generality be made!?
if you have been here for a while you would know that SVP is not interested in solutions...e.g. for the Ausschaffungsinitiative/Deportation Initiative there have been a myriad of proposals and SVP has turned down all of them, they don't want to cooperate it as simple as that...

but no, SVP has no credible ideas or solutions for things because it is not in their interest...
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  #456  
Old 02.03.2014, 16:41
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Clottu the SVP leader for Neuchâtel was on a TV debate the other day- and had to admit that he employs lots of frontaliers in his own business, and IT workers from India too. He also admitted he had NO idea how to proceed now- but that 'il n'y a qu'à négocier' 'you just have to negociate'

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  #457  
Old 02.03.2014, 19:39
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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if you have been here for a while you would know that SVP is not interested in solutions...e.g. for the Ausschaffungsinitiative/Deportation Initiative there have been a myriad of proposals and SVP has turned down all of them, they don't want to cooperate it as simple as that...

but no, SVP has no credible ideas or solutions for things because it is not in their interest...
I will be taking that up with the SVP representatives themselves and see what they have to say.
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Old 02.03.2014, 19:56
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I will be taking that up with the SVP representatives themselves and see what they have to say.
I have no doubt you will do a better job than the federal Council with the exact same task. We believe in you, go and save the country!
Don't forget to take Robin with you.

EDIT: Porsch is virtually groaning at the Fereral Council.... what a lack of humility.

Last edited by Faltrad; 02.03.2014 at 21:20.
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  #459  
Old 02.03.2014, 22:33
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I have no doubt you will do a better job than the federal Council with the exact same task. We believe in you, go and save the country!
Don't forget to take Robin with you.

EDIT: Porsch is virtually groaning at the Fereral Council.... what a lack of humility.

I have no intention of doing anything the "Federal Council" has done - simply I will be presenting the accusation that OSueco levelled at them and see what they have to say!
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  #460  
Old 02.03.2014, 23:27
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Clottu the SVP leader for Neuchâtel was on a TV debate the other day- and had to admit that he employs lots of frontaliers in his own business, and IT workers from India too. He also admitted he had NO idea how to proceed now- but that 'il n'y a qu'à négocier' 'you just have to negociate'
I begin to think all sides were caught a bit flat-footed on this. Polling leading up to the vote indicated it would be close, but even the SVP wasn't convinced it would pass. Many groups, SVP among them, get initiatives on the ballot with no intent to do anything but start a discussion. So when this passed, it was a moment.
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