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  #461  
Old 03.03.2014, 00:15
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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if you have been here for a while you would know that SVP is not interested in solutions...
Meanwhile in Ticino, who voted more than 2:1 yes, the SVP is a party of little consequence, about 5%.

Clearly, it's more than the SVP.

Tom
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  #462  
Old 03.03.2014, 03:28
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Meanwhile in Ticino, who voted more than 2:1 yes, the SVP is a party of little consequence, about 5%.

Clearly, it's more than the SVP.

Tom
First of all, the political spectrum covered in German speaking Switzerland by the SVP is covered by others in the Ticino

Second, even below 10% parties launch and win political votes
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  #463  
Old 03.03.2014, 07:46
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Meanwhile in Ticino, who voted more than 2:1 yes, the SVP is a party of little consequence, about 5%.

Clearly, it's more than the SVP.

Tom
Isn't the SVP allied with the Lega in Ticino?
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  #464  
Old 03.03.2014, 09:57
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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First of all, the political spectrum covered in German speaking Switzerland by the SVP is covered by others in the Ticino
Who are these "others"?
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  #465  
Old 03.03.2014, 10:01
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Who are these "others"?
As mentioned above the LEGA, but also the right wings of CVP and FDP, again different in Ticino than elsewhere
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  #466  
Old 03.03.2014, 10:05
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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As mentioned above the LEGA, but also the right wings of CVP and FDP, again different in Ticino than elsewhere
I thought the CVP and FDP parties were completely against this initiative ... so your saying that in Ticino those parties were promoting the initiative?
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  #467  
Old 03.03.2014, 12:02
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

I'm happy with the outcome. It shows that EU can't be messed around with and hard pressed by the minority of fascist. The result of this vote will be that Switzerland will be forced to fight over scientists who can bring their grants to their country, giving us more leverage about the salaries ect. This, or be left behind on the science field.
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  #468  
Old 03.03.2014, 16:15
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Except one needs the other far more than the other needs the one.

One more thing though...no matter what happens, neither the EU nor Switzerland win. They both lose, in different ways. Who loses more, is open to debate but the facts tell one story.

True. there are no clear benefits for anybody
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  #469  
Old 03.03.2014, 16:44
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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True. there are no clear benefits for anybody
The clear benefit for Switzerland is that we have regained our right to dictate our own immigration policy for ALL foreigners. Some don't see this as a "benefit" because they don't care about it - but for us that care it's a clear benefit.
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  #470  
Old 03.03.2014, 16:49
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As mentioned above the LEGA, but also the right wings of CVP and FDP, again different in Ticino than elsewhere
Even the Greens in Ticino are different then elsewhere.

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Isn't the SVP allied with the Lega in Ticino?
Nobody is allied with the SVP, anywhere. In any matter. Period. Not even the JSVP. But there are parties and groups who are so useful to the SVP that they will occasionally refrain from stabbing them in the back.

However, the same can be said of the LEGA. So that makes it a mutually beneficial non-back-stabbing.

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The question is do they (SVP) have any ideas or proposals on how it should be implemented, not who is responsible for implementing it and the answer is a resounding NO, no matter how you dress it up.
Answer: do they need to?

No matter how this is implemented, the SVP will be able to claim it is not implemented as they wanted. And at some point in the future they will be able to cash in on that supposed betrayal of the demcoratic will of "the people" by "the political class". The whole point about the SVP as that they can be the underdog even when they're calling the shots.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 03.03.2014 at 17:03. Reason: merging successive posts
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Old 03.03.2014, 17:07
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The clear benefit for Switzerland is that we have regained our right to dictate our own immigration policy for ALL foreigners. Some don't see this as a "benefit" because they don't care about it - but for us that care it's a clear benefit.
Everything in life has a price; let us hope at the end of the day the price is not too high

About "regained our right..." the right was not "lost" or forcibly removed; it was freely voted away.
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  #472  
Old 03.03.2014, 17:08
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I begin to think all sides were caught a bit flat-footed on this. Polling leading up to the vote indicated it would be close, but even the SVP wasn't convinced it would pass. Many groups, SVP among them, get initiatives on the ballot with no intent to do anything but start a discussion. So when this passed, it was a moment.
that, and also the EU overreacting.

If this were to be a European party, the guys in Brussels would pretty much know how to interpret what happened and how to deal with it. The SVP is largely unknown outside of Switzerland. The foreign media paint the SVP in a caricatural way that is only correct in a very narrow sense and misses the finer points entirely. Thsi is aggravated by people like Mörgeli's appearances on German TV where he pokes fun at the Germans without them fully grasping the context of what he's saying, while coming across as quite a bit more idiotic than he actually is and completing a scary caricature of the SVP as he wants people to see it. Switzerland is only a small country and the SVP is only one of many parties, so how much real estate can the tablets or even the broadsheets dedicate to a detailed analysis of the different factions within the SVP and their relative goals and reasons for tolerating one another (or not). So basically the EU offices are having to react in a knee-jerk fashion. They don't know what's hit them so are having to rattle their sabres in the most menacing way possible, while considering that in a worst case scenario (or Wurst-Käse Szenario) more than 50 of the Swiss are clones of Mörgeli and they're hiding under your bed now, armed with fondue forks and molten cheese. After a while the waters will settle and people will notice that nothing has really changed. But to say that now would be political suicide. It's better to pretend to be doing something.
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  #473  
Old 03.03.2014, 17:13
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Nobody is allied with the SVP, anywhere. In any matter. Period. Not even the JSVP.
I thought the JSVP were the Youth branch of the SVP ... !?

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Everything in life has a price; let us hope at the end of the day the price is not too high

About "regained our right..." the right was not "lost" or forcibly removed; it was freely voted away.
The right was indeed lost, even if only by choice - but only until the people took it back - which they did.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 03.03.2014 at 17:47. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #474  
Old 03.03.2014, 17:18
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I thought the JSVP were the Youth branch of the SVP ... !?
They are, but that hasn't prevented sparks from flying and tempers from flaring from time to time.
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  #475  
Old 03.03.2014, 17:51
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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that, and also the EU overreacting.

If this were to be a European party, the guys in Brussels would pretty much know how to interpret what happened and how to deal with it. The SVP is largely unknown outside of Switzerland. The foreign media paint the SVP in a caricatural way that is only correct in a very narrow sense and misses the finer points entirely. Thsi is aggravated by people like Mörgeli's appearances on German TV where he pokes fun at the Germans without them fully grasping the context of what he's saying, while coming across as quite a bit more idiotic than he actually is and completing a scary caricature of the SVP as he wants people to see it. Switzerland is only a small country and the SVP is only one of many parties, so how much real estate can the tablets or even the broadsheets dedicate to a detailed analysis of the different factions within the SVP and their relative goals and reasons for tolerating one another (or not). So basically the EU offices are having to react in a knee-jerk fashion. They don't know what's hit them so are having to rattle their sabres in the most menacing way possible, while considering that in a worst case scenario (or Wurst-Käse Szenario) more than 50 of the Swiss are clones of Mörgeli and they're hiding under your bed now, armed with fondue forks and molten cheese. After a while the waters will settle and people will notice that nothing has really changed. But to say that now would be political suicide. It's better to pretend to be doing something.
About "also the EU overreacting." - So far I would not characterise the EU as "overreacting" - more that they have moved into a passive mode. They have simply identified some areas where they have paused their activities.
I have not seen anything new or any actual actions?
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  #476  
Old 03.03.2014, 18:35
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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About "also the EU overreacting." - So far I would not characterise the EU as "overreacting" - more that they have moved into a passive mode. They have simply identified some areas where they have paused their activities.
I have not seen anything new or any actual actions?
I would say they have put things on hold to the extent of risking collateral damage, with the longer term objective of waiting for things to calm down and get back to normal.

I see certain parallels to the time the FPOe won the Austrian elections and they started pretending to take it all very seriously while fully knowing there was nothing they could do about it.
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Old 03.03.2014, 18:54
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I would say they have put things on hold to the extent of risking collateral damage, with the longer term objective of waiting for things to calm down and get back to normal.

I see certain parallels to the time the FPOe won the Austrian elections and they started pretending to take it all very seriously while fully knowing there was nothing they could do about it.
Sure, I mean it is not like the EU stopped their grants and asked for their money back or stopped Swiss flights over Germany or other nasty stuff!
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  #478  
Old 03.03.2014, 20:34
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I thought the CVP and FDP parties were completely against this initiative ... so your saying that in Ticino those parties were promoting the initiative?
No, these parties in Ticino did NOT promote the initiative. But numerous members of those parties did. Some SVP members at the other hand opposed the initiative. It is not so simple.
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Old 03.03.2014, 20:42
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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No, these parties in Ticino did NOT promote the initiative. But numerous members of those parties did. Some SVP members at the other hand opposed the initiative. It is not so simple.
Yes, you have the odd situation that many senior SVP people (like Spuhler and Blocher) own very large companies that have much more than the average number of foreigners- figures I saw were Spuhler (30%) and Blocher (28%).

Last edited by marton; 03.03.2014 at 21:32. Reason: percentage correction
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  #480  
Old 03.03.2014, 21:00
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Erasmus works pretty simple: The receiving country supports the incoming students. While Switzerland has more international students in the country than the 2700 Swiss using Erasmus are by far the most normally enrolled in CH and pay themselves. The Swiss tuition is compared to countries like the UK an absolute bargain... so Swiss students going there benefit way more from Erasmus than English students coming here - at the expense of the UK tax payers.
That's not at all my understanding. Countries pay for outgoing students

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/20148103

"Die europäischen Universitäten bezahlen ihren Studenten kein Stipendium mehr, wenn sie an eine Schweizer Universität wollen."

In fact Switzerland became only a full member in 2011 and paid not only outgoing but also incoming students!

http://www.parlament.ch/d/suche/seit...ch_id=20103806

"Durch die offizielle Beteiligung an den Programmen muss die Schweiz nicht mehr wie bisher für die Incoming-Studierenden bezahlen, da künftig die jeweiligen Herkunftsländer für jene Studierenden aufkommen, welche in die Schweiz kommen."

How ridiculous is that?

Tuition fees are low in Switzerland because unlike other countries the swiss tax payer is bearing the bulk of the cost. Including for 38% foreign students.

And this according to EU is having the cake and eating it?
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