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  #521  
Old 13.03.2014, 07:51
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

And here some more news from the EU:
They grandes of the EU gracefully allow Switzerland to keep up participating in "Horizon 2020" if we continue to pay the already agreed contribution of CHF 180 mio for "Euratom".
Don't tell me that they finally realised that Switzerland is actually paying for the privilege of participating in their countless programms. That's probably more than you can say from members of the EU.
Source:
http://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/die-s...atom-mitmachen
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  #522  
Old 13.03.2014, 11:26
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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That's probably more than you can say from members of the EU.
Which ones?
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  #523  
Old 25.03.2014, 10:57
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=38165754

Tom
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  #524  
Old 25.03.2014, 17:17
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

I stumbled on this link on the NF's web site. Evidentally, the SVP has some fans in France who approve of CH's immigration initiative:

http://www.frontnational.com/exigeon...-limmigration/ [In French]

For the record, I am NOT a fan of the Front National or similar right-wing groups. (BTW, is France's "Front National" affiliated with the UK's "National Front" or is the similarity in names coincidental?)
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  #525  
Old 25.03.2014, 17:26
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I stumbled on this link on the NF's web site. Evidentally, the SVP has some fans in France who approve of CH's immigration initiative:

http://www.frontnational.com/exigeon...-limmigration/ [In French]

For the record, I am NOT a fan of the Front National or similar right-wing groups. (BTW, is France's "Front National" affiliated with the UK's "National Front" or is the similarity in names coincidental?)
The SVP is widely admired by various right-wing groups across Europe. The SVP itself apparently isn't too comfortable with these associations, that only cherry pick certain aspects of the SVP's politics while ignoring others. I guess this comes from the one-sided way foreign media frequently report on the SVP.

The UK's National Front is virtually inexistent these days AFAIK. I believe they basically broke apart as the BNP gathered momentum in the mid 2000s. Many BNP people including most of the leadership were previously in the National Front though, so I suppose you could say they just changed ships. The BNP's leader, Nick Griffin, was chums with Le Pen senior and they were at times guest speakers at one another's rallies. But I don't know what Griffin's position is on Marine Le Pen. Meanwhile Marine is trying to downplay links to extremist right-wing groups in other countries as she's trying to brand herself as moderate and reasonable.

A couple of years ago I watched a YouTube film which unfortunately I can't find, in which third generation French Muslims were speaking about the Front Nationale with several saying they would vote for it because the newer immigrants were undermining French values. So strange alliances can at times sway events
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  #526  
Old 25.03.2014, 18:00
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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A couple of years ago I watched a YouTube film which unfortunately I can't find, in which third generation French Muslims were speaking about the Front Nationale with several saying they would vote for it because the newer immigrants were undermining French values. So strange alliances can at times sway events
I'm not that surprised because I remember reading on some EF thread about some Swiss teenagers who were the children of Eastern European immigrants joining the SVP. It's not that surprising to see the descendants of immigrants to fight against more immigrants coming into the country that their parents or grandparents fought to become a part of.
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  #527  
Old 25.03.2014, 21:59
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I'm not that surprised because I remember reading on some EF thread about some Swiss teenagers who were the children of Eastern European immigrants joining the SVP. It's not that surprising to see the descendants of immigrants to fight against more immigrants coming into the country that their parents or grandparents fought to become a part of.
Most of the naturalized Swiss citizens who contribute on this forum are voting with SVP....and they are not Eastern Europeans. It's a "foreigner complex" (but the reverse kind of Gaijin complex). Probably didn't even have to "fight" for becoming "a part" of CH...

Last edited by greenmount; 25.03.2014 at 22:10.
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  #528  
Old 26.03.2014, 09:24
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Most of the naturalized Swiss citizens who contribute on this forum are voting with SVP....
Nah, I generally vote LEGA.

Tom
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  #529  
Old 26.03.2014, 09:33
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Nah, I generally vote LEGA.

Tom
No worries Tom, I understand you.
Voting with SVP is one of the reasons I'll get my red passport in a few years.
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Old 26.03.2014, 12:52
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

I also read somewhere that apparently the first ever elected Front National councillor was actually an immigrant from the Antilles.

Many leftists feel confident that demographic changes caused by immigration will eventually diminish the support base of far right parties. They may yet discover that they were mistaken.
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Old 26.03.2014, 14:30
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I also read somewhere that apparently the first ever elected Front National councillor was actually an immigrant from the Antilles.

Many leftists feel confident that demographic changes caused by immigration will eventually diminish the support base of far right parties. They may yet discover that they were mistaken.
..and that being already known as a fact, it makes even more sense to vote with anti-immigration far right parties. In the long run, if they do what they preach, voting with them will mean reducing the size of their parish....

Last edited by greenmount; 26.03.2014 at 14:46.
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  #532  
Old 26.03.2014, 17:36
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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And here some more news from the EU:
They grandes of the EU gracefully allow Switzerland to keep up participating in "Horizon 2020" if we continue to pay the already agreed contribution of CHF 180 mio for "Euratom".
Don't tell me that they finally realised that Switzerland is actually paying for the privilege of participating in their countless programms. That's probably more than you can say from members of the EU.
Source:
http://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/die-s...atom-mitmachen
Countless for whom ?

Switzerland had 1:1.5 scale with EU projects. It paid 1, it received 1.5.

Now as third country, it is 1 on 1.

1/3 of the budget is gone.

You know, losing 1/3 of the principal funding money is a serious cut in opportunities.

I do not think ETH and EPFL are considering that 1/3 as "countless".

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  #533  
Old 28.03.2014, 10:06
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Did you take in count the billions for the cohesion and the several projects like Gotthard, Lötschberg and whatever else we are building to ease the transit between one country of the EU and the other one?
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Old 28.03.2014, 10:58
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Did you take in count the billions for the cohesion and the several projects like Gotthard, Lötschberg and whatever else we are building to ease the transit between one country of the EU and the other one?
So these were built out of altruistic motives to help the EU along?

The construction companies involved expect to turn a profit. The freight companies will pay to use it. Communities along the old route expect to benefit from reduced pollution.

All in all, massive projects, with a lot of inter-dependencies, from the financing, the market for these tunnels, to the people who are building them. More evidence that Switzerland cant pick and choose how it want to hold itself in isolation.

If this continues to escalate the Swiss taxpayer will be on the hook for a white elephant, the losses being distributed among 8 million people. After turning a profit for the first time in decades, SBB Cargo will go into the red again. The EU will find other, possibly less efficient ways through the Alps, and live with that as well, the losses being absorbed by 500 million people.
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  #535  
Old 28.03.2014, 11:13
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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No worries Tom, I understand you.
Voting with SVP is one of the reasons I'll get my red passport in a few years.
You also vote for the SVP ideas to make it more difficult to get a red passport?
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  #536  
Old 28.03.2014, 11:20
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Did you take in count the billions for the cohesion and the several projects like Gotthard, Lötschberg and whatever else we are building to ease the transit between one country of the EU and the other one?
You mean the billions that EU trucks pay every year to cross Switzerland?
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  #537  
Old 28.03.2014, 15:43
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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So these were built out of altruistic motives to help the EU along?

The construction companies involved expect to turn a profit. The freight companies will pay to use it. Communities along the old route expect to benefit from reduced pollution.

All in all, massive projects, with a lot of inter-dependencies, from the financing, the market for these tunnels, to the people who are building them. More evidence that Switzerland cant pick and choose how it want to hold itself in isolation.

If this continues to escalate the Swiss taxpayer will be on the hook for a white elephant, the losses being distributed among 8 million people. After turning a profit for the first time in decades, SBB Cargo will go into the red again. The EU will find other, possibly less efficient ways through the Alps, and live with that as well, the losses being absorbed by 500 million people.
Wikipedia:

In negotiations with the European Union, Switzerland demanded a limitation of transalpine heavy goods traffic which was denied by the EU. Therefore the Swiss negotiators took another route and demanded a kilometre-based tax on heavy goods vehicles, the Distance-related heavy vehicle fee (HVF), which was to be installed for all domestic and international truck traffic above 3.5 tonnes. Negotiations subsequently turned towards the amount of that tax, and Switzerland offered to build a new high-speed rail link through the Alps for the main purpose of intermodal transport, an offer which was later accepted by the EU but not without attaching the condition that the then valid 28-tonne limit for trucks must be raised to 48 tonnes. A settlement was achieved with the acceptance by both sides of a step-by-step raise of the weight limit to 40 tonnes. Thus, the bilateral Land Transport Agreement with the European Union was reached and once the NRLA is finished, the kilometre-based tax on HGVs can be increased from 1.6 ct/tkm to 1.8 ct/tkm. This condition will be fulfilled with the completion of the Lötschberg base tunnel.
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Old 28.03.2014, 15:54
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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You mean the billions that EU trucks pay every year to cross Switzerland?
It will take quite a few years till the costs for the Alp Transit (approximate total costs: up tp 24 billion till 2019) will be paid and this payment will be divided like this.
55 % LSVA (including Swiss trucks), revenues in 2010: 1'489 million CHF
20 % VAT (rise for 0.5%)
15 % depts
15 % mineral oil taxes

And I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that we are going to vote soon about a second road tunnel through the Gotthard. And guess who is going to pay for it?
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Old 28.03.2014, 16:16
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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It will take quite a few years till the costs for the Alp Transit (approximate total costs: up tp 24 billion till 2019) will be paid and this payment will be divided like this.
55 % LSVA (including Swiss trucks), revenues in 2010: 1'489 million CHF
20 % VAT (rise for 0.5%)
15 % depts
15 % mineral oil taxes

And I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that we are going to vote soon about a second road tunnel through the Gotthard. And guess who is going to pay for it?
The Swiss population accepted the Alp Transit project by vote on September 27, 1992 and re-approved it, accepting its new financing structure by a new public transport fund, in 1999.

How do you see this Alp Transit project as being "Repercussions of Vote Already Starting..." ?
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  #540  
Old 28.03.2014, 16:19
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Wikipedia:

In negotiations with the European Union, Switzerland demanded a limitation of transalpine heavy goods traffic which was denied by the EU. Therefore the Swiss negotiators took another route and demanded a kilometre-based tax on heavy goods vehicles, the Distance-related heavy vehicle fee (HVF), which was to be installed for all domestic and international truck traffic above 3.5 tonnes. Negotiations subsequently turned towards the amount of that tax, and Switzerland offered to build a new high-speed rail link through the Alps for the main purpose of intermodal transport, an offer which was later accepted by the EU but not without attaching the condition that the then valid 28-tonne limit for trucks must be raised to 48 tonnes. A settlement was achieved with the acceptance by both sides of a step-by-step raise of the weight limit to 40 tonnes. Thus, the bilateral Land Transport Agreement with the European Union was reached and once the NRLA is finished, the kilometre-based tax on HGVs can be increased from 1.6 ct/tkm to 1.8 ct/tkm. This condition will be fulfilled with the completion of the Lötschberg base tunnel.
So CH and the EU negotiated an agreement from which CH stands to gain a fair amount of revenue in return for increasing the transportation infrastructure. Revenue that is expected to continue even after the costs of building that infrastructure is paid off.

And if the bilaterals go down the drain to the extent that the transport treaty is declared invalid, good luck getting these taxes to pay back the costs of building these multibillion dollar tunnels.

So your point of quoting this is?
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