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  #621  
Old 17.04.2014, 07:54
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Maybe that it once again will be le provisoire qui dure
Isn't that just going back to the situation before 2011?
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  #622  
Old 17.04.2014, 14:39
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Isn't that just going back to the situation before 2011?
Yes AND No. Legally yes. But as reputed universities like Cambridge and Sorbonne apparently are not ready to co-operate with Switzerland it in a way is back to 1920.

The Swiss universities now negotiate with universities like the CapeTown University (RSA) and the Virginia Tech (USA). The ETH (Federal Technical University, Zürich) is in touch with universities in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam. There will be a major "workshop" in Singapore in June for such co-operation schemes.

The whole mess is not easy but the universities have to look forward. Whenever the university cantons voted NO, the Federal Yes is a fact even if based on a below 51% yes, and so, the universities have to establish alternatives.
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  #623  
Old 24.04.2014, 10:18
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

https://www.euresearch.ch/fileadmin/...zon2020_sv.pdf
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  #624  
Old 25.04.2014, 17:23
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

http://www.rts.ch/info/economie/5799...tissement.html

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  #625  
Old 25.04.2014, 17:39
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

SteAlka, it would be very nice if you would include a brief, translated snippet of the link above, for folks that do not read French (or German, or Italian). Thanks.
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  #626  
Old 25.04.2014, 20:56
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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SteAlka, it would be very nice if you would include a brief, translated snippet of the link above, for folks that do not read French (or German, or Italian). Thanks.
ok, sorry. I put it up:

http://www.rts.ch/info/economie/5799...tissement.html

they say that the companies that are investing in Switzerland are thinking about changing target, due to the vote of 9th of February.
The current difference is that 6% of the companies would like to invest less with respect to last year. Reason: the vote. This is what the news say.

Some interesting money.
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  #627  
Old 25.04.2014, 21:15
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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ok, sorry. I put it up:

http://www.rts.ch/info/economie/5799...tissement.html

they say that the companies that are investing in Switzerland are thinking about changing target, due to the vote of 9th of February.
The current difference is that 6% of the companies would like to invest less with respect to last year. Reason: the vote. This is what the news say.

Some interesting money.
Many companies, particularily such ones with production sites just accross the borders, consider to shift activities to nearby German and French and Italian and Austrian aereas without leaving the market place. Many will shift production units to Vorarlberg /OE, Baden-Württemberg /D , Elsass and Burgundy /FR, Piemonte and Lombardia /IT. If so, also well qualified CH people may lose their jobs, but instead of moving into "lower" jobs inside CH, many may emigrate and take their know-how with them. Sure, most of the HQs will stay inside CH, but the actual production may well "cross the Rhein". And so, within a decade, things will go as Micheline Calmy-Rey expects them to go, which means that Switzerland will finally apply for EU membership, even with many exceptions.
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  #628  
Old 25.04.2014, 21:32
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The current difference is that 6% of the companies would like to invest less with respect to last year. Reason: the vote. This is what the news say.
In other words, 94% want to invest the same or more.

Tom
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  #629  
Old 25.04.2014, 22:36
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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In other words, 94% want to invest the same or more.

Tom
Sure. This is why the TV-news lady did not take the news so dramatically. I rather believe that some industry-captains use the vote as a justification for some longplanned adjustments

This at a time when French companies establish subsidiaries in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia . Egypt (Airbus, Renault, Peugeot, etc) . So that the dreams of King Hassan II, Abdelaziz Bouteflika, Abdine Ben-Ali and Hosni Mubarak about a better integration into Europe in the frame of the Mediterranean Partnership once established in co-operation with then French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin are becoming reality. the mills of God mill slowly but securely
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  #630  
Old 25.04.2014, 22:53
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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In other words, 94% want to invest the same or more.

Tom
Nice hopes you have:

The reality is that if in a survey between February and April, 6% has already decided to invest less, the derivative is negative and the 94% is pure fantasy.
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  #631  
Old 25.04.2014, 22:56
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Many companies, particularily such ones with production sites just accross the borders, consider to shift activities to nearby German and French and Italian and Austrian aereas without leaving the market place. Many will shift production units to Vorarlberg /OE, Baden-Württemberg /D , Elsass and Burgundy /FR, Piemonte and Lombardia /IT. If so, also well qualified CH people may lose their jobs, but instead of moving into "lower" jobs inside CH, many may emigrate and take their know-how with them. Sure, most of the HQs will stay inside CH, but the actual production may well "cross the Rhein". And so, within a decade, things will go as Micheline Calmy-Rey expects them to go, which means that Switzerland will finally apply for EU membership, even with many exceptions.

Why would a company need an excuse and state "it is for the vote"? Companies relocate all the time without the need of an excuse, if they say that it is due to the vote I would have no difficulties in believing them.
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  #632  
Old 25.04.2014, 23:41
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Why would a company need an excuse and state "it is for the vote"? Companies relocate all the time without the need of an excuse, if they say that it is due to the vote I would have no difficulties in believing them.

True, but this simply means that we do not speak about 6% but about finally some 20%.

However, this will be spread over 3 to 10 years, and some factors will work in favour of Switzerland like its central location, its infrastructure and the quality of its service-industry. To quote Bundesrat Leuenberger again " the best asset of Siwtzerland is a good infrastructure, this is why the infrastructure has to be supported under any circumstances

But please realize that a good part of industrial production in Switzerland takes place in areas where the wages are EU average. I recently saw an interview with an industry manager who talked lots of nonsense. His counterpart, a trades-unionist, had an easy task.

In short, the repercussions ARE negative and WILL BE SO beyond doubt, but hardlly in a dramatic way
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  #633  
Old 26.04.2014, 09:36
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

This has the good Bürgers of my little village worried:
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/29713032

Klaus-Michael Kühne, the majority shareholder of Kühne & Nagel, says that, roughly translated:

"Switzerland has become unpredictable. The country can not live as an island. "

The carrier apparently is considering relocating parts of the group from the country. The reason is the adoption of the mass immigration initiative, and the difficulty it could pose to bringing in qualified management and staff. Kühne says: "Should it actually come to restrictions in the immigration, we need to settle a portion of our headquarters somewhere else."




Kühne & Nagel's tax contribution is a significant part of the village budget. Should they leave, the repercussions will be felt by each and every taxpayer in the village.
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  #634  
Old 26.04.2014, 10:01
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Like people didn't think of this before they voted...oder

Direct democracy seems to suit only those who are actually ready for it.
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  #635  
Old 26.04.2014, 12:17
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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True, but this simply means that we do not speak about 6% but about finally some 20%.

However, this will be spread over 3 to 10 years, and some factors will work in favour of Switzerland like its central location, its infrastructure and the quality of its service-industry.
I am amazed about your ability to make predictions for this timespan. Especially at this point in time. I mean, we know absolutely nothing on what will be implemented in the law and how the EU will react to that. Not to mention that the decision to invest or not invest might actually be influenced by one or two other factors than this vote for the most exotic of companies.

Amazing. You must be a very rich man. What will the weather be like on 26.04.2024?

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Klaus-Michael Kühne, the majority shareholder of Kühne & Nagel, says that, roughly translated:

"Switzerland has become unpredictable. The country can not live as an island. "

The carrier apparently is considering relocating parts of the group from the country. The reason is the adoption of the mass immigration initiative, and the difficulty it could pose to bringing in qualified management and staff. Kühne says: "Should it actually come to restrictions in the immigration, we need to settle a portion of our headquarters somewhere else."
This translates for me to "In this democracy it is actually not clear from the beginning what the political elite will negotiate with the economic elite to screw over the rest of the country."

I think the path chosen on how to limit the immigration is the wrong one, but each company that has this interpretation of democracy can take their "predictability" and stick it where the sun don't shine. Economy is a tool to serve society and the individual. Not the other way around. Good riddance.
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  #636  
Old 26.04.2014, 12:37
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Tom, take that thank you gave me!



I don't think the forward thinking about repercussions was there. I'd like to think otherwise, seriously.
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  #637  
Old 26.04.2014, 12:42
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

I understand your irony MusicChick, so I am not answering to you directly:

Considering the ludicrous comments on how losing funding will be beneficial to research and the comments on how losing investments will not have negative effects, declaring awareness of the consequences makes it just look Kafkian.

Direct democracy or not, a population that is not informed, is not free and for sure not ready.

This whole story is just creating negative effects.

You know a nice way to do the things was just to have part of the costs of the surpopulation paid by the new immigrants. Some other countries do it.
A much clearer, helpful and acceptable solution, for sure, than that strong claims on that referendum.

I add:
two days ago I was in a discussion for a EU project. The people in the project will let only us as a Swiss partner in the project, because 1) it is already a risk 2) a second Swiss partner would rise eyebrows. Frankly speaking, we are still in the project definition only because the idea is mine.... and this sucks. Before we had people asking us to join projects because Switzerland is a cool country. Oih, what a change.
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Old 26.04.2014, 13:01
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I am amazed about your ability to make predictions for this timespan. Especially at this point in time. I mean, we know absolutely nothing on what will be implemented in the law and how the EU will react to that. Not to mention that the decision to invest or not invest might actually be influenced by one or two other factors than this vote for the most exotic of companies.

Amazing. You must be a very rich man. What will the weather be like on 26.04.2024?


This translates for me to "In this democracy it is actually not clear from the beginning what the political elite will negotiate with the economic elite to screw over the rest of the country."

I think the path chosen on how to limit the immigration is the wrong one, but each company that has this interpretation of democracy can take their "predictability" and stick it where the sun don't shine. Economy is a tool to serve society and the individual. Not the other way around. Good riddance.
Economy and finance have never cared about democracy or dictatorships or whatever, so, I suppose they have the right to do business where it suits them the best and that it is a problem of a country to make the problem of doing a business attractive.

Seriously, expecting that a company does things for the sake of a political system is a bit of a strong assumption. In finance and economy there is only the rule that the people that are able to survive will win the game, until they can keep up with the competition.
If they cannot compete as they like, they will leave, that is it.
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  #639  
Old 26.04.2014, 13:19
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This has the good Bürgers of my little village worried:
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/29713032

Klaus-Michael Kühne, the majority shareholder of Kühne & Nagel, says that, roughly translated:

"Switzerland has become unpredictable. The country can not live as an island. "

The carrier apparently is considering relocating parts of the group from the country. The reason is the adoption of the mass immigration initiative, and the difficulty it could pose to bringing in qualified management and staff. Kühne says: "Should it actually come to restrictions in the immigration, we need to settle a portion of our headquarters somewhere else."




Kühne & Nagel's tax contribution is a significant part of the village budget. Should they leave, the repercussions will be felt by each and every taxpayer in the village.
Correct, but Mr Kühne could simply relocate offices to Jetstetten and Konstanz and Friedrichshafen

I expect that places like Bregenz, Konstanz, Waldshut, Lörrach, Mülhausen/Mulhouse, Annecy, Annemasse, Varese and Como will profit in the next few years. These places already now use and profit from the Swiss infrastructure.
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Old 26.04.2014, 14:25
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Economy and finance have never cared about democracy or dictatorships or whatever, so, I suppose they have the right to do business where it suits them the best and that it is a problem of a country to make the problem of doing a business attractive.

Seriously, expecting that a company does things for the sake of a political system is a bit of a strong assumption. In finance and economy there is only the rule that the people that are able to survive will win the game, until they can keep up with the competition.
If they cannot compete as they like, they will leave, that is it.
Yes, they have the right to do business where it suits them. No problem with that. But they don't walk the walk, they only talk the talk. It was exactly the same with the Minder initiative. Remember the little movie of Economy Swiss? In fact these kind of threats exist since democracy exists. Leaders of the economy threatened to leave Switzerland when we abolished child labour and they said Switzerland is doomed when the working week was reduced to 65 hours. Some decisions actually had a negative impact on the economy and some didn't, but what we got in return was worth it.


The point is that economy can not claim any moral high ground, their only interest is to make money - as long as the risk for them is not too high (that's the reason they try to stay within the law mostly). I couldn't care less what Kühne+Nagel think about democracy. As you said: They don't care about democracy or dictatorship. They want child labour? They want "predictability"? They want Karōshi? Fine. They can have it. But not in Switzerland and I, for one, will not shed any tears over their retreat. Switzerland has an interest to stay attractive for business. But not for all of them and not at any price.
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