Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #661  
Old 27.04.2014, 22:08
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
It WAS done, but those who were against had to appeal to the brains of people, while the SVP appealed to the lower parts of the body
Amen!!!
Reply With Quote
  #662  
Old 27.04.2014, 22:12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
MusicChick is not a he, just FYI.
Ops, pardon MusicChick.

S.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SteAlka for this useful post:
  #663  
Old 28.04.2014, 08:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 6,370
Groaned at 221 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 7,888 Times in 4,260 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
I'm struggling to work out how this opinion relates to the thread title
.
Frankly, i'm struggling to find out how this vote will affect me.Theoretically, I tend to agree with those who say it will be bad for economy. If so, companies will head to greener pastures, jobs go, we go. My OH wouldn't even conceive to stay here, unemployed or stuck up in a position or job that is less than what he really wants (personally I'm more for compromise on this one), so staying for the sake of Switzerland, however beautiful and organised, however permit B that we both currently have, or C very soon for him, it's not a question.
Switzerland is attractive because there are (still) jobs and opportunities. How much and how soon will that change, I don't know yet.
Otherwise, compared to the anti-immigration hysteria in other parts of E.U., here...it was a piece of cake.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #664  
Old 28.04.2014, 08:30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Frankly, i'm struggling to find out how this vote will affect me.Theoretically, I tend to agree with those who say it will be bad for economy. If so, companies will head to greener pastures, jobs go, we go. My OH wouldn't even conceive to stay here, unemployed or stuck up in a position or job that is less than what he really wants (personally I'm more for compromise on this one), so staying for the sake of Switzerland, however beautiful and organised, however permit B that we both currently have, or C very soon for him, it's not a question.
Switzerland is attractive because there are (still) jobs and opportunities. How much and how soon will that change, I don't know yet.
Otherwise, compared to the anti-immigration hysteria in other parts of E.U., here...it was a piece of cake.
In 2014 I am somehow really surprised that people turned again on the immigrants and the different as it happened 70 years ago, in the whole of the EU. And here too.

I thought we passed this.

Actually, what it astonishes me, is that everybody knows that the economic crisis was caused by bad banking, but still a large part of the population got its hate on immigrants.

It is not much far a way from "I have to scratch my leg, consequently I am going to fire at you".
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SteAlka for this useful post:
  #665  
Old 28.04.2014, 08:39
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,198
Groaned at 1,166 Times in 913 Posts
Thanked 25,056 Times in 12,000 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
So that everything east of the Upper-Mississippi is North-East USA
No, it's not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Midwest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeastern_United_States

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #666  
Old 28.04.2014, 08:58
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

So the "upper Midwest" is at least two states farther east than I thought. And Montana and Wyoming then are "Pacific states" ....................

Second line : That Ohio and Indiana are counted as "Midwest" is surprising in a way

-----------------------------

The third line shows that even the Americans differ in opinion about the definitions. Ohio by some then is seen as North-EAST and Virginia also even if counted otherwise as part of the "confederate" South
Reply With Quote
  #667  
Old 28.04.2014, 08:58
MusicChick's Avatar
modified and reprogrammed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 11,210
Groaned at 122 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 13,397 Times in 6,656 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
In 2014 I am somehow really surprised that people turned again on the immigrants and the different as it happened 70 years ago, in the whole of the EU. And here too.

I thought we passed this.

Actually, what it astonishes me, is that everybody knows that the economic crisis was caused by bad banking, but still a large part of the population got its hate on immigrants.

It is not much far a way from "I have to scratch my leg, consequently I am going to fire at you".
I am not really astonished. If a population is let to believe certain sterotypes and certain retorics are not considered under the belt, simplistic and misleading (or flat out racist), this population will not push on governement to improve chances of locals to be able to compete and invest (improving legislature, instructions, frameworks, quality of edu, etc. all those are major costs and they also need to be supervised, checked..). There is no real resistance to change in the local mentality, I find most people are flexible. But there is resistance to make sensible gov investments, that might take longer to return, but that would be understandable in terms of forward thinking and sensible prevention, which is probably a skill mastered by poor nations since they have nothing else.

If hysterics prevail, it is basically cheaper. Foreigners have harder chances to be employed. It's a pragmatic short cut. Thankfully, I actually think many employers are intelligent and will employ those who merit. Irrespectively of quotas. I consider quotas to be a weird version of positive discrimination, pointing fingers on the weak link that needs to be protected, by this last hysterical measure, that really, in the long run does not solve the lack of being able to compete, because it gives certain right without earning it. Foreigners will figure something out, I am not worried. But local university programs; foreign smarts invested here that overall improve stuff for all and push prestige up; local kids who are about to spread their wings and learn elsewhere and get their competitive skills high - are in the mean time going to get shortchanged. That's a shame.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H.Pestalozzi

ἀρχὴ ἥμισυ παντός
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #668  
Old 28.04.2014, 09:06
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Frankly, i'm struggling to find out how this vote will affect me.Theoretically, I tend to agree with those who say it will be bad for economy. If so, companies will head to greener pastures, jobs go, we go. My OH wouldn't even conceive to stay here, unemployed or stuck up in a position or job that is less than what he really wants (personally I'm more for compromise on this one), so staying for the sake of Switzerland, however beautiful and organised, however permit B that we both currently have, or C very soon for him, it's not a question.
Switzerland is attractive because there are (still) jobs and opportunities. How much and how soon will that change, I don't know yet.
Otherwise, compared to the anti-immigration hysteria in other parts of E.U., here...it was a piece of cake.
It will not be bad for the economy, as immigration is still possible, even if more regulated and more complicated. It is NOT an immigration stop .... even SVP leaders need immigrants
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #669  
Old 28.04.2014, 09:15
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
I am not really astonished. If a population is let to believe certain sterotypes and certain retorics are not considered under the belt, simplistic and misleading (or flat out racist), this population will not push on governement to improve chances of locals to be able to compete and invest (improving legislature, instructions, frameworks, quality of edu, etc. all those are major costs and they also need to be supervised, checked..). There is no real resistance to change in the local mentality, I find most people are flexible. But there is resistance to make sensible gov investments, that might take longer to return, but that would be understandable in terms of forward thinking and sensible prevention, which is probably a skill mastered by poor nations since they have nothing else.

If hysterics prevail, it is basically cheaper. Foreigners have harder chances to be employed. It's a pragmatic short cut. Thankfully, I actually think many employers are intelligent and will employ those who merit. Irrespectively of quotas. I consider quotas to be a weird version of positive discrimination, pointing fingers on the weak link that needs to be protected, by this last hysterical measure, that really, in the long run does not solve the lack of being able to compete, because it gives certain right without earning it. Foreigners will figure something out, I am not worried. But local university programs; foreign smarts invested here that overall improve stuff for all and push prestige up; local kids who are about to spread their wings and learn elsewhere and get their competitive skills high - are in the mean time going to get shortchanged. That's a shame.
You do not have to push on the governments, as most governments in Switzerland DID and DO improve chances of locals to be able to compete and invest (improving legislature, instructions, frameworks, quality of edu, etc) and the locals have enough opportunities. Most of the governments therefore were clearly against the initiative. The Swiss Workforce, which includes longterm foreign residents, is perfectly able to compete with any immigrants. But retired or dead people do NOT compete
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #670  
Old 28.04.2014, 09:56
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,198
Groaned at 1,166 Times in 913 Posts
Thanked 25,056 Times in 12,000 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
The third line shows that even the Americans differ in opinion about the definitions. Ohio by some then is seen as North-EAST and Virginia also even if counted otherwise as part of the "confederate" South
The REAL NE is New England, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, nothing else.

Only someone from the deep South would consider Ohio or Virginia as NE.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #671  
Old 28.04.2014, 19:31
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Regarding the definitions of "Northeast" in the United States, keep in mind that Virginia is a big state. If I were to drive to New York City from the Washington D.C. area, I'd cross four state lines and travel 370 kilometres. If I were to cross the Potomac River into Virginia and go the same distance in the opposite direction, I'd still be in Virginia.

It's perfectly reasonable to count part of Virginia---the suburbs of Washington normally referred to as "Northern Virginia"---as part of the Northeast and say the rest of the state isn't.
Reply With Quote
  #672  
Old 28.04.2014, 20:57
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 7,565
Groaned at 51 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 11,462 Times in 5,383 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
...It's perfectly reasonable to count part of Virginia---the suburbs of Washington normally referred to as "Northern Virginia"---as part of the Northeast and say the rest of the state isn't.
You've never met a Virginian, have you?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #673  
Old 28.04.2014, 22:16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg-4ATrE8n0#t=104
Reply With Quote
  #674  
Old 28.04.2014, 22:49
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
The REAL NE is New England, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, nothing else.

Only someone from the deep South would consider Ohio or Virginia as NE.

Tom
People from the deep South consider Virginia, the home-state of General Robert Edward Lee as part of the South.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

I personally consider the area from Ohio to Minnesota as NORTH-CENTRAL

Last edited by Wollishofener; 30.04.2014 at 00:53.
Reply With Quote
  #675  
Old 29.04.2014, 00:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 6,370
Groaned at 221 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 7,888 Times in 4,260 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
It will not be bad for the economy, as immigration is still possible, even if more regulated and more complicated. It is NOT an immigration stop .... even SVP leaders need immigrants
Hope so, Wolli, hope so. I finally got to really enjoy living here so would like to have the same opportunities for as long as possible.

What a difference knowing the language can make.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #676  
Old 29.04.2014, 00:58
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,559 Times in 6,312 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
It will not be bad for the economy, as immigration is still possible, even if more regulated and more complicated. It is NOT an immigration stop .... even SVP leaders need immigrants


About "even SVP leaders need immigrants" - like, for example, Spuhler who is threatening to move his huge business abroad if he cannot employ enough foreigners
Reply With Quote
  #677  
Old 29.04.2014, 10:06
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Kreuzlingen
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
floyd59 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Then explain why people are voting becuse there are too many kebab shops in Luzern.
Dave.
I voted NO, but boiling the vote down to too many kebab shops is not taking the worries of the swiss people seriously. No matter what country you are from, what would happen if there were 25% immigrants and counting? It's not that the people voting no have anything in general against foreigners, it's the worries that the country is too small for so much growth.

Just as an example: I've been to china 1 week ago, and they are already worried about 100'000 african workers in one of the cities in the south (city in china meaning >1'000'000 inhabitants).

I don't like the outcome of the vote at all, for many reasons, but there are real problems that need to be addressed by the politicians.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank floyd59 for this useful post:
  #678  
Old 29.04.2014, 10:43
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,240
Groaned at 179 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 17,584 Times in 7,462 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Just as an example: I've been to china 1 week ago, and they are already worried about 100'000 african workers in one of the cities in the south (city in china meaning >1'000'000 inhabitants).
To me that isn't trivial.

Switzerland may have 25% foreigners, but this number built up incrementally over 50+ years, so the number of unintegrated foreigners is far lower than that 25% figure.

To go from 0% to 10% in maybe 3 years in a provincial Chinese city with very little history of openness to the outside world is quite a different challenge. I'd be concerned if I was Chinese.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #679  
Old 29.04.2014, 11:31
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,559 Times in 6,312 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
I voted NO, but boiling the vote down to too many kebab shops is not taking the worries of the swiss people seriously. No matter what country you are from, what would happen if there were 25% immigrants and counting? It's not that the people voting no have anything in general against foreigners, it's the worries that the country is too small for so much growth.

Just as an example: I've been to china 1 week ago, and they are already worried about 100'000 african workers in one of the cities in the south (city in china meaning >1'000'000 inhabitants).

I don't like the outcome of the vote at all, for many reasons, but there are real problems that need to be addressed by the politicians.
About "boiling the vote down to too many kebab shops ..." - I assume the poster was quoting the article from Tagesanzeiger where they interviewed people about why they voted "yes".
One person said the reason was "too many kebab shops in Luzerne" - so you see it is the Swiss themselves who "are not taking the worries of the Swiss people seriously"
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #680  
Old 29.04.2014, 22:16
11HoursInTheTinPan's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 504
Groaned at 19 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 892 Times in 354 Posts
11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
As far as I am concerned you still have underage prostitution in place.
Where childhood ends and adulthood starts and what that means is, within certain limits, a question of culture, politics and the Zeitgeist.
But that's the nice thing about declarations, one does not have to take care of such details as as long as you have neither intent nor measure to implement it.

The US (did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child at all), the UK ("the use of physical punishment is a matter for individual parents to decide") and Switzrerland are still allowed to take part in all parts of the UN without having to fear any consequences.

Quote:
View Post
Look, you can continue repeating "democracy, democracy, democracy, democracy", economy, math and physics will continue their course, whatever democratic decision has been taken in Switzerland.
I have had and still have my fair share of involvement in the fields of mathematics, physics and economy. Naming them in one sentence is very brave .

But you missed the point: I don't want the economic laws to be anulled or ignored. I want you to understand that the economic growth is not the most important thing in the world. It's not even in the top 5. I am not saying it is unimportant. I am saying that we have often democratically decided to do something that is bad for economy and no one in their right mind would want to go back and reintroduce child labour or the 65 hour week (and even this was an improvement!).

Quote:
View Post
Influencing the democratic process is within the democratic process though. You amongst all should not discuss that influencing the public opinion in whatever way is part of democracy. Information is there, they can state what they think, they can state the consequences and then everybody can vote accordingly.
I won't prevent anyone from excersising their rights, but I won't be sad when they leave and I will exercise my freedom of speech as well: It is highly questionable if companies are threatening to leave the country because democracy is too "unpredictable". And if they do, it might be better that they leave.
__________________
"Sometimes it's hard to tell the living from the dead" -- Edgar Winter
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 11HoursInTheTinPan for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
erasmus, european union, fmop, horizon, immigration, masseneinwanderung, vote




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Immigration status of Non-EU starting a business in Switzerland alesco Business & entrepreneur 28 09.11.2015 14:26
Masseneinwanderung [Immigration] vote - Facts Slaphead Swiss politics/news 4 29.06.2014 19:59
Is there any age limits to starting a PhD? Breezy Family matters/health 15 18.11.2012 01:23
Immigration limits in the UK: what about scientists? HashBrown International affairs/politics 5 08.10.2010 00:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0