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  #61  
Old 19.02.2014, 08:14
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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in the meantime, the university of Geneva is to replace "Erasmus" with "Coimbra" which is NOT under the EU, but has members like Oxford, Cambridge, Siena and Istanbul
Sorry, but do you have any idea what you are talking about?


1. Coimbra is a group of leading universities that signed some agreement in the 80s to work together and promote academic collaboration. If your university is in it can you relatively easily study a semester or so abroad at another member school.

2. Erasmus is a massive program to fund students who want to study in another EU country. Because the EU wants its population to get a better understanding of each other.


The two things have nothing to do with each other and do not "replace" anything - one gets you the study place, the other one pays your bills. By blocking Erasmus did the EU not block Swiss students to study in the EU in any way - it just does not financially support them anymore (as well as stopping support for Swiss universities accepting EU students).
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  #62  
Old 19.02.2014, 08:39
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

I work in academia, and I can tell you that the mood is VERY grim there. Students are starting to panick, and us teachers don't really know what to do or tell them.

Erasmus is an important part of a university life, and we were told to encourage our students to use the program and travel during their studies. Many are supposed to leave later this year, and have no idea if they'll be able to do so.
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  #63  
Old 19.02.2014, 08:44
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Any solution will be complicated by the fact that Switzerland is completely surrounded by the EU.

Two of the "bilateral 1 agreements" are Civil aviation 1999 and Overland transport 1999; if the EU were to put a cap on the number of boats, planes, trucks and trains travelling over their territory to and from Switzerland then life could get interesting.
Oh it would be like the Berlin Airlift, but in reverse...
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  #64  
Old 19.02.2014, 08:52
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

EU is just a bunch of bullies. They can't accept a democratically voted law.
So they will harass...and it can be understood:
In France during the referendum of 2005, the people voted against the European Constitution.

The Government passed it anyway.

This is the EU. I think Switzerland might suffer on the short term economically from it. But I am sure it will find a way to get out of it
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  #65  
Old 19.02.2014, 09:07
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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EU is just a bunch of bullies. They can't accept a democratically voted law.
Bullshit. The EU is perfectly fine with a country joining or leaving. What the EU and most pro-Europeans are not fine with are people who try to have their cake and eat it.
You cannot have a one-way freedom of movement: You cannot expect to get the right to move wherever you want in the EU yourself but limit the number of EU folks in your country. You also cannot expect to get free access to the market for your goods but blocking imports. The EU is simply about free movement. You can want it or leave it. But the half arsed positions of CH (and some others like the UK) are just going on the nerves of the people who actually value the EU for what it is.


Before Switzerland joined Schengen have I personally witnessed how an older Swiss guy went completely batshit in the German embassy in Bern when his Thai girlfriend's visa application was rejected. No shopping in Konstanz for those two... If the Swiss want to go back to those days am I fine with it - I just don't agree that it is ok to limit it only in one direction... and for once do the EU bureaucrats seem to slowly get their shit together and will gradually show the Swiss how many benefits the EU has brought them they take for granted and never actually think about. That's nothing undemocratic at all. A vote should have these logical consequences, otherwise is it pointless.
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Old 19.02.2014, 09:07
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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EU is just a bunch of bullies. They can't accept a democratically voted law.
So they will harass...and it can be understood:
In France during the referendum of 2005, the people voted against the European Constitution.

The Government passed it anyway.

This is the EU. I think Switzerland might suffer on the short term economically from it. But I am sure it will find a way to get out of it

The same argument just after 3 pages?

The same answer:

You broke a contract, so you started this process, the EU is applying the penalty clauses as everybody would do in these circumstances.

Repeating as a dogma that EU is the bad guy, will not make it the bad guy.

In Switzerland if you break a contract, you pay the penalties, I do not see why internationally this should be different.
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  #67  
Old 19.02.2014, 09:13
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I currently live in a country with a population density of over 7000 per square kilometre, so not double or triple but 35 times higher than CH. I find the quality of living here on par with Switzerland if not better. The discussion on sustainable population density is bullshit and just barely covered xenophobia.
Of course, if we wanted to live in a place with the populations density at 7000/km2 we would move to Singapore. But we don't.
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Old 19.02.2014, 09:21
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Sorry, but do you have any idea what you are talking about?


1. Coimbra is a group of leading universities that signed some agreement in the 80s to work together and promote academic collaboration. If your university is in it can you relatively easily study a semester or so abroad at another member school.

2. Erasmus is a massive program to fund students who want to study in another EU country. Because the EU wants its population to get a better understanding of each other.


The two things have nothing to do with each other and do not "replace" anything - one gets you the study place, the other one pays your bills. By blocking Erasmus did the EU not block Swiss students to study in the EU in any way - it just does not financially support them anymore (as well as stopping support for Swiss universities accepting EU students).
A) NO NO NO --- I only can say what was in the press
A-2) Clear is that the universities in question have to find solutions BEFORE EU and BR find some remote compromises
B) if the EU does no longer support Swiss students anymore, they will no longer depend on the EU and have to look elsewhere. Uni + ETH therefore are not yet decided while their more emotional counterparts in Geneva apparently ARE
C) stopping support for Swiss universities accepting EU students is a hostiile action --- difficult to find a response
C-2 ) to find out that the main reverend at Fraumünster-Kirche is a former student of Princeton University may give you a hint
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  #69  
Old 19.02.2014, 09:22
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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the EU is applying the penalty clauses as everybody would do in these circumstances.
.
The EU is not applying any penalty clause. CH has decided to unilaterally break an agreement of which it was the main beneficiary, the EU is just removing the privileges which the bilaterals grant to Switzerland. These bilateral agreements are now finished. Any future trade agreements with CH will not be so favorable and may likely include agriculture which will serve the rednecks who vote in favour of the SVP right.
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Old 19.02.2014, 09:27
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Bullshit. The EU is perfectly fine with a country joining or leaving. What the EU and most pro-Europeans are not fine with are people who try to have their cake and eat it.
You cannot have a one-way freedom of movement: You cannot expect to get the right to move wherever you want in the EU yourself but limit the number of EU folks in your country. You also cannot expect to get free access to the market for your goods but blocking imports. The EU is simply about free movement. You can want it or leave it. But the half arsed positions of CH (and some others like the UK) are just going on the nerves of the people who actually value the EU for what it is.


Before Switzerland joined Schengen have I personally witnessed how an older Swiss guy went completely batshit in the German embassy in Bern when his Thai girlfriend's visa application was rejected. No shopping in Konstanz for those two... If the Swiss want to go back to those days am I fine with it - I just don't agree that it is ok to limit it only in one direction... and for once do the EU bureaucrats seem to slowly get their shit together and will gradually show the Swiss how many benefits the EU has brought them they take for granted and never actually think about. That's nothing undemocratic at all. A vote should have these logical consequences, otherwise is it pointless.
Do you read the news = ?? 49,7% voted in favour of RETAINING the status-quo. THE SWISS indeed DID consider and so voted half and half

But the 49,5% are swiftly getting angry about being discriminated by the EU rulers who first of all act against the proEU people here
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Old 19.02.2014, 09:29
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The EU is not applying any penalty clause. CH has decided to unilaterally break an agreement of which it was the main beneficiary, the EU is just removing the privileges which the bilaterals grant to Switzerland. These bilateral agreements are now finished. Any future trade agreements with CH will not be so favorable and may likely include agriculture which will serve the rednecks who vote in favour of the SVP right.
Sir, the Bilaterals are still in force and are , according to the latest polls, supported by some 75% of the population.
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Old 19.02.2014, 09:32
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Do you read the news = ?? 49,7% voted in favour of RETAINING the status-quo. THE SWISS indeed DID consider and so voted half and half

But the 49,5% are swiftly getting angry about being discriminated by the EU rulers who first of all act against the proEU people here
Just how is the EU discriminating anyone? If you're not a member of the club, then you don't get the benefits, that's all.
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Old 19.02.2014, 09:34
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Sir, the Bilaterals are still in force and are , according to the latest polls, supported by some 75% of the population.
Wasn't the referendum about limiting immigration and thus ending the bilaterals?
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Old 19.02.2014, 09:36
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Sir, the Bilaterals are still in force and are , according to the latest polls, supported by some 75% of the population.
It astounds me there is 25% who don't want them.
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Old 19.02.2014, 09:37
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Just how is the EU discriminating anyone? If you're not a member of the club, then you don't get the benefits, that's all.
the EU chose exactly the points which were in favour of the PRO EU camp. A very nice way to support allies. And to do so IS discrimination

Switzerland still IS a member of the club, via the Bilateral Treaties, which have the support of more than 70% of the people
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  #76  
Old 19.02.2014, 09:46
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I work in academia, and I can tell you that the mood is VERY grim there. Students are starting to panick, and us teachers don't really know what to do or tell them.

Erasmus is an important part of a university life, and we were told to encourage our students to use the program and travel during their studies. Many are supposed to leave later this year, and have no idea if they'll be able to do so.
I work in the academia as well, if I were you I'd tell them not to panic (seriously) . First, students who are already on an Erasmus in Switzerland can't be expelled just like that. Second and after all, it is not before months that the Swiss government will come out with some form of law to translate this vote, don't forget that the Swiss government itself was anti-vote, so I assume they will do their best for a good compromise.
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  #77  
Old 19.02.2014, 09:48
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Switzerland still IS a member of the club
No, Switzerland is not a member of the EU! The referendum result signals Switzerland's intention to unilaterally break the bilateral agreements.
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  #78  
Old 19.02.2014, 10:12
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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No, Switzerland is not a member of the EU! The referendum result signals Switzerland's intention to unilaterally break the bilateral agreements.
NO, Switzerland does NOT intend to break the Bilateral Agreements, which have a 75% supporrt in the people

Your conclusion is WRONG
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Old 19.02.2014, 10:17
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NO, Switzerland does NOT intend to break the Bilateral Agreements, which have a 75% supporrt in the people

Your conclusion is WRONG
No, you are WRONG
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Old 19.02.2014, 10:33
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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But the 49,5% are swiftly getting angry about being discriminated by the EU rulers who first of all act against the proEU people here
The EU does not act against anyone here - they simply execute agreements.


And either does discrimination not mean what you think it means or you will have to explain in what way Swiss people are discriminated against. You are not an EU member - you decided against joining and that's ok. So why do you expect to be treated like a member? You are in no way treated worse than any other non-EU country.

I was actually surprised to find out that Switzerland was included in Erasmus in the first place - I have no clue why EU citizens should pay for Swiss students studying in the EU with their tax money. So the EU did in no way make any sanctions or the like after the vote - they just started to stop handing out freebies. And that's ok in my book.
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