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  #1021  
Old 14.11.2014, 20:29
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Today's Guardian "Ireland’s foreign minister warns Cameron over freedom of movement"

Does not look good for possible Swiss negotiations?

He also said;" Speaking at the European Council on Foreign Relations, Flanagan said: “To try to place any general limitations on the free movement of EU citizens within the union would, in my view, strike at a basic principle on which the union is founded,” he said.

“I cannot conceive of any way in which such limitations would find the necessary support around the table
.”
Well that make four by my count: Germany, Norway, Sweden, Ireland and I think Finland was not too positive either.

For the EU, the free movement must be on all levels: goods, capital and labour.
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  #1022  
Old 15.11.2014, 05:39
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

"The EU is torn apart, it is gonna fall !!!!!!!!111eleven11elven!!!"

I think ghost busters have passed here, I cannot hear the rant of the ghosts of the past anymore.
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  #1023  
Old 15.11.2014, 10:15
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Well that make four by my count: Germany, Norway, Sweden, Ireland and I think Finland was not too positive either.

For the EU, the free movement must be on all levels: goods, capital and labour.


The free movement of GOODS is neither included in the CH-EEC free trade agrements of the 70ies NOR in the CH-EU Bilaterals. Often absurd, but simply fact
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  #1024  
Old 15.11.2014, 10:59
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

With each passing week the Swiss are getting more and more fed up with being held hostage by the EU, the Bilaterals, Strasbourg etc ... Every day we see our democratic choice being stripped from us in the name of "human rights" and "economic growth". It may come as a surprise for many out there, but not everyone in this country is ready just yet to hand over what 'little' power they have to decide their country's future for a handout that comes with dire consequences in the long run!

And you can wag your heads all you want and say that immigration controlled by the EU and the Bilaterals is enough for us and that we should all just shut up, sit still, and receive with grateful hearts what the blessed EU is willing to share with us - but at the end of the day there are STILL more Swiss in this country than immigrants, and we will be the ones doing the voting, and the ones having the last word!

The shits hitting the fan and peoples across Europe are getting on their feet and having something to say about it. The Bilaterals are not perfect and are already showing cracks, with for instance the Dublin Agreement looking about dead in the water etc ... It's just a matter of time before renegotiations start - NOT just with Switzerland and the EU, but within the EU itself. We are just seeing the beginning of a snowball effect - exciting times!!
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  #1025  
Old 15.11.2014, 11:53
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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With each passing week the Swiss are getting more and more fed up with being held hostage by the EU, the Bilaterals, Strasbourg etc ... Every day we see our democratic choice being stripped from us in the name of "human rights" and "economic growth". It may come as a surprise for many out there, but not everyone in this country is ready just yet to hand over what 'little' power they have to decide their country's future for a handout that comes with dire consequences in the long run!

And you can wag your heads all you want and say that immigration controlled by the EU and the Bilaterals is enough for us and that we should all just shut up, sit still, and receive with grateful hearts what the blessed EU is willing to share with us - but at the end of the day there are STILL more Swiss in this country than immigrants, and we will be the ones doing the voting, and the ones having the last word!

The shits hitting the fan and peoples across Europe are getting on their feet and having something to say about it. The Bilaterals are not perfect and are already showing cracks, with for instance the Dublin Agreement looking about dead in the water etc ... It's just a matter of time before renegotiations start - NOT just with Switzerland and the EU, but within the EU itself. We are just seeing the beginning of a snowball effect - exciting times!!

well, I see it differently


With each passing week I am more and more fed up with being held hostage of the SVP (28% of the electorate, but 80% of the headlines) who demonize the Bilaterals, which are much to the advantage of Switzerland


I am more fed up than ever to be confronted by a billionaire and his lakais who feel TO BE THE PEOPLE, and who get angry when they LOSE votes


The Bilaterals are not perfect but are a major achievement of late Jean Pascal Delamuraz - the same applies to Schengen/Dublin. Both agreements are excellent but far too INflexible. But the Dublin Agreement is of Advantage to the Police Forces in Switzerland who now can get in direct touch with Police Forces all over Europe


At the end of the day, the will of the People is NOT the will of Mr Blocher, in spite of all his millions



The EU suffers however of the enormous influence of France in the times of the Montan-Union and the early EEC when West-Germany as a result of history hesitated to use its power to press for more federalism, against the very CENTRALIST Approach from Paris. YES, People in the EU gradually understand what John Major called the SUBSIDIARITY (more power to the roots)


I remember that Mrs Thatcher said that the EU should be a close union of basically independent countries

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  #1026  
Old 15.11.2014, 12:00
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Today's Guardian "Ireland’s foreign minister warns Cameron over freedom of movement"

Does not look good for possible Swiss negotiations?

He also said;" Speaking at the European Council on Foreign Relations, Flanagan said: “To try to place any general limitations on the free movement of EU citizens within the union would, in my view, strike at a basic principle on which the union is founded,” he said.

“I cannot conceive of any way in which such limitations would find the necessary support around the table
.”
Oh no! Not Ireland! Let's hope Luxembourg does not turn against us now!

A good thing that Andorra is not part of the EU, they'd crush us.
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  #1027  
Old 15.11.2014, 12:14
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Oh no! Not Ireland! Let's hope Luxembourg does not turn against us now!

A good thing that Andorra is not part of the EU, they'd crush us.

RE
said;" Speaking at the European Council on Foreign Relations, Flanagan said: “To try to place any general limitations on the free movement of EU citizens within the union would, in my view, strike at a basic principle on which the union is founded,” he said.

“I cannot conceive of any way in which such limitations would find the necessary support around the table
.”



I am shocked to see that the Irish Foreign Minister is a liar, with a historic memory just going back to breakfast. The free movement of EU citizens never was a BASIC PRINCIPLE on which the Union was founded. When the Montanunion/EWG(EEC) got started nobody talked about such notions, and UK plus Ireland were not even members, as they were in EFTA, which they treacherously left in around 1970


Ireland of course would be welcome back in EFTA, after having executed this chap
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  #1028  
Old 15.11.2014, 12:26
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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With each passing week the Swiss are getting more and more fed up with being held hostage by the EU, the Bilaterals, Strasbourg etc ... Every day we see our democratic choice being stripped from us in the name of "human rights" and "economic growth". It may come as a surprise for many out there, but not everyone in this country is ready just yet to hand over what 'little' power they have to decide their country's future for a handout that comes with dire consequences in the long run!

And you can wag your heads all you want and say that immigration controlled by the EU and the Bilaterals is enough for us and that we should all just shut up, sit still, and receive with grateful hearts what the blessed EU is willing to share with us - but at the end of the day there are STILL more Swiss in this country than immigrants, and we will be the ones doing the voting, and the ones having the last word!

The shits hitting the fan and peoples across Europe are getting on their feet and having something to say about it. The Bilaterals are not perfect and are already showing cracks, with for instance the Dublin Agreement looking about dead in the water etc ... It's just a matter of time before renegotiations start - NOT just with Switzerland and the EU, but within the EU itself. We are just seeing the beginning of a snowball effect - exciting times!!
Don't cross the streamsss !!! N E V E R cross the streams !!!
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  #1029  
Old 15.11.2014, 12:59
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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well, I see it differently


With each passing week I am more and more fed up with being held hostage of the SVP (28% of the electorate, but 80% of the headlines) who demonize the Bilaterals, which are much to the advantage of Switzerland


I am more fed up than ever to be confronted by a billionaire and his lakais who feel TO BE THE PEOPLE, and who get angry when they LOSE votes


The Bilaterals are not perfect but are a major achievement of late Jean Pascal Delamuraz - the same applies to Schengen/Dublin. Both agreements are excellent but far too INflexible. But the Dublin Agreement is of Advantage to the Police Forces in Switzerland who now can get in direct touch with Police Forces all over Europe


At the end of the day, the will of the People is NOT the will of Mr Blocher, in spite of all his millions



The EU suffers however of the enormous influence of France in the times of the Montan-Union and the early EEC when West-Germany as a result of history hesitated to use ist power to press for more federalism, against the very CENTRALIST Approach from Paris. YES, People in the EU gradually understand what John Major called the SUBSIDIARITY (more power to the roots)


I remember that Mrs Thatcher said that the EU should be a close union of basically independent countries
I find it amusing how people use Mr. Blocher as the scapegoat for everything they don't like ... as if he has dominion over the hearts and souls of the lame and misinformed masses of Swiss people who have the audacity to vote for something he is in some way, shape or form, connected to.

I have had many extensive conversations with "Blocher-haters" and asked them simply "why is it that you hate him so much?" - most of the time the reply is something to the tune of "He is a rich guy who only cares about his own money ... etc ...." - and I have to then wonder "That's IT!?" I know he is demonised throughout the "liberal", "progressive" world and media, but what has he actually done (with documented proof - not some conspiracy theory) that people think they can just toss him and anything he stands for in the bin!?

And the SVP is not Mr. Blocher, neither is Mr. Blocher the SVP! I know several instances where SVP members have gone the opposite way of Mr. Blocher, and right now there are whole swathes of SVP members who are voting for ECOPOP against the will of Mr. Blocher!!

I see people who have this gripe against the guy for the "millions" he has as just a waste of time! Like whining kids who bitch about a guy because he made something of himself in the business world - so they just play on that to the socialite-minded masses ... "Oh look, he is for national sovereignty and independence AND HE IS RICH!! Bad Bad man!!" - And then if he were NOT well off the same whining kids would be saying ""Oh look, he is for national sovereignty and independence AND HE IS POOR, so has nothing to show for his opinions - he is not one to talk!!" - So either way he is damned ...

As for "getting angry when they loose votes" - Aren't the vast majority of Demonstrations from the so-called "liberals" and "progressives" who are opposed to the SVP and Mr. Blocher!? That is what I have witnessed anyhow - mobs of angry immigrants, communists, punks and anarchists, dropping themselves on Bundesplatz in protest of anything that calls for a renegotiation of the Bilaterals - especially the FMOP! I don't think I have seen a single SVP-led demonstration here in Bern in the last few years ...

"the will of the People is NOT the will of Mr Blocher, in spite of all his millions" - Your damn straight! And what is happening right now in favor of ECOPOP is proof of that - proof that Mr. Blocher is not the bogeyman he is made out to be, and proof that the Swiss people are not deaf, dumb and blind sheep being led by him!!

The point is that from the side opposing the MEI or ECOPOP there is no solutions - in fact most of them act like there is no problem at all - just shoving moss and clovers in their ears and yelling "Laalaallaaaaaaaa" ...
In just the last 2 -3 years I have seen things deteriorating in subtle and non-subtle ways, and I have had Swiss people (Who are OPPOSED to the SVP and Mr. Blocher) tell me straight out that things ARE deteriorating ... So I know I am not just making this stuff up! But I ask them "So you see things are deteriorating but you are against the MEI or anything that goes contrary to the Bilaterals ... so what is then the solution? What is your party, the SP, CVP, FDP etc ... what are THEY proposing to do to deal with the problems!?" - and they got nothing!

So you can blame Mr. Blocher and the SVP all you want - but the responsibility is squarely on the shoulders of the others as well for NOT dealing with the situation and for NOT dealing with the people's concerns adequately!

The Dublin agreement is a joke! That Italy and Austria (EU members) can brush off refugees and then Strasbourg rules that Switzerland is responsible for them... this is a sick joke! The agreements are going to have to be renegotiated and redesigned ... or scrapped altogether! - It's come to that.

As for the benefits of the Dublin agreement - come on!! It's a trade-off - that's what it is! All these Bilaterals are based on the idea of trade-offs. You accept the FMOP which is going to help spread the load of the unemployed in Europe, which is going to increase your healthcare spending, your social welfare spending, your public services spending, your infrastructure spending, your crime rates, your prison populations, your police and judicial spending etc ... but then in return we don't discriminate against your Swiss products and we help you with info on immigrant criminals (who are there enmass thanks to the other agreement you agreed to!!).... it's a racquet, blackmail ... and the ones REALLY getting richer are the bankers and fatcats at the top who promote and are helping steam roll this insanity forward - NOT the average Joe and Sally!
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  #1030  
Old 15.11.2014, 13:22
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I find it amusing how people use Mr. Blocher as the scapegoat for everything they don't like ... as if he has dominion over the hearts and souls of the lame and misinformed masses of Swiss people who have the audacity to vote for something he is in some way, shape or form, connected to.

I have had many extensive conversations with "Blocher-haters" and asked them simply "why is it that you hate him so much?" - most of the time the reply is something to the tune of "He is a rich guy who only cares about his own money ... etc ...." - and I have to then wonder "That's IT!?" I know he is demonised throughout the "liberal", "progressive" world and media, but what has he actually done (with documented proof - not some conspiracy theory) that people think they can just toss him and anything he stands for in the bin!?

And the SVP is not Mr. Blocher, neither is Mr. Blocher the SVP! I know several instances where SVP members have gone the opposite way of Mr. Blocher, and right now there are whole swathes of SVP members who are voting for ECOPOP against the will of Mr. Blocher!!

I see people who have this gripe against the guy for the "millions" he has as just a waste of time! Like whining kids who bitch about a guy because he made something of himself in the business world - so they just play on that to the socialite-minded masses ... "Oh look, he is for national sovereignty and independence AND HE IS RICH!! Bad Bad man!!" - And then if he were NOT well off the same whining kids would be saying ""Oh look, he is for national sovereignty and independence AND HE IS POOR, so has nothing to show for his opinions - he is not one to talk!!" - So either way he is damned ...

As for "getting angry when they loose votes" - Aren't the vast majority of Demonstrations from the so-called "liberals" and "progressives" who are opposed to the SVP and Mr. Blocher!? That is what I have witnessed anyhow - mobs of angry immigrants, communists, punks and anarchists, dropping themselves on Bundesplatz in protest of anything that calls for a renegotiation of the Bilaterals - especially the FMOP! I don't think I have seen a single SVP-led demonstration here in Bern in the last few years ...

"the will of the People is NOT the will of Mr Blocher, in spite of all his millions" - Your damn straight! And what is happening right now in favor of ECOPOP is proof of that - proof that Mr. Blocher is not the bogeyman he is made out to be, and proof that the Swiss people are not deaf, dumb and blind sheep being led by him!!

The point is that from the side opposing the MEI or ECOPOP there is no solutions - in fact most of them act like there is no problem at all - just shoving moss and clovers in their ears and yelling "Laalaallaaaaaaaa" ...
In just the last 2 -3 years I have seen things deteriorating in subtle and non-subtle ways, and I have had Swiss people (Who are OPPOSED to the SVP and Mr. Blocher) tell me straight out that things ARE deteriorating ... So I know I am not just making this stuff up! But I ask them "So you see things are deteriorating but you are against the MEI or anything that goes contrary to the Bilaterals ... so what is then the solution? What is your party, the SP, CVP, FDP etc ... what are THEY proposing to do to deal with the problems!?" - and they got nothing!

So you can blame Mr. Blocher and the SVP all you want - but the responsibility is squarely on the shoulders of the others as well for NOT dealing with the situation and for NOT dealing with the people's concerns adequately!

The Dublin agreement is a joke! That Italy and Austria (EU members) can brush off refugees and then Strasbourg rules that Switzerland is responsible for them... this is a sick joke! The agreements are going to have to be renegotiated and redesigned ... or scrapped altogether! - It's come to that.

As for the benefits of the Dublin agreement - come on!! It's a trade-off - that's what it is! All these Bilaterals are based on the idea of trade-offs. You accept the FMOP which is going to help spread the load of the unemployed in Europe, which is going to increase your healthcare spending, your social welfare spending, your public services spending, your infrastructure spending, your crime rates, your prison populations, your police and judicial spending etc ... but then in return we don't discriminate against your Swiss products and we help you with info on immigrant criminals (who are there enmass thanks to the other agreement you agreed to!!).... it's a racquet, blackmail ... and the ones REALLY getting richer are the bankers and fatcats at the top who promote and are helping steam roll this insanity forward - NOT the average Joe and Sally!

Many possible much cleverer solutions than the current propaganda for zombies a la walking dead:

a) Make immigrants pay a toll towards infrastructures

b) Make high skilled and high educated immigrants Swiss faster than the others, so that the country can benefit durably from this.

c) Put reasonable income thressholds to renew permits.

d) Pay Swiss people abroad better if they return.

e) Pay better money if people leave the country and their job to foster mobility.

f) Buy land. Switzerland has a lot of money it is rather strange it does not buy land rather than absolutely USELESS gold.

g) Invest in renewable energy much much more.

h) Invest in education, much much more

i) Invest in research much much much more.

j) Invest on healthcare much much much much more.

k) Invest in telework for all those jobs that can be done from home.
Which are many, but for a matter of stupidity and controlling culture, this is not supported. BECAUSE THE BOSS HAS TO SEE THE WORKERS TICKING THE HOURSS !!!!!

eccetera eccetera.

Propaganda kills the logical thoughts, so to all the solutions above, which would curb effectively the problem, it was preferred an idiot screming "AHHHH THESE IMMIGRANTSS, THEY RAPE OUR POTATOES and TOMATOES!!!"

To enter a row with the EU, which will only end with a lot of time and opportunities wasted by everybody.
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  #1031  
Old 15.11.2014, 13:37
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Many possible much cleverer solutions than the current propaganda for zombies a la walking dead:

a) Make immigrants pay a toll towards infrastructures

b) Make high skilled and high educated immigrants Swiss faster than the others, so that the country can benefit durably from this.

c) Put reasonable income thressholds to renew permits.

d) Pay Swiss people abroad better if they return.

e) Pay better money if people leave the country and their job to foster mobility.

f) Buy land. Switzerland has a lot of money it is rather strange it does not buy land rather than absolutely USELESS gold.

g) Invest in renewable energy much much more.

h) Invest in education, much much more

i) Invest in research much much much more.

j) Invest on healthcare much much much much more.

k) Invest in telework for all those jobs that can be done from home.
Which are many, but for a matter of stupidity and controlling culture, this is not supported. BECAUSE THE BOSS HAS TO SEE THE WORKERS TICKING THE HOURSS !!!!!

eccetera eccetera.

Propaganda kills the logical thoughts, so to all the solutions above, which would curb effectively the problem, it was preferred an idiot screming "AHHHH THESE IMMIGRANTSS, THEY RAPE OUR POTATOES and TOMATOES!!!"

To enter a row with the EU, which will only end with a lot of time and opportunities wasted by everybody.
And are you a member of a Swiss political party? Have any of the political parties opposed to the SVP/Blocher/MEI/ECOPOP made any of those suggestions!? (Not that I necessarily agree to them)

My point isn't that there ARE no alternate solutions, but that the other political parties have not been bringing any solutions tot he table that deal with the issues! Or!?
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  #1032  
Old 15.11.2014, 14:01
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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And are you a member of a Swiss political party? Have any of the political parties opposed to the SVP/Blocher/MEI/ECOPOP made any of those suggestions!? (Not that I necessarily agree to them)

My point isn't that there ARE no alternate solutions, but that the other political parties have not been bringing any solutions tot he table that deal with the issues! Or!?
To no solution proposed the decision was to add more problems.
I am impressed for the courage.
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  #1033  
Old 15.11.2014, 14:10
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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but at the end of the day there are STILL more Swiss in this country than immigrants, and we will be the ones doing the voting, and the ones having the last word!
Well I totally disagree and I will be one of those having the last word as you put it!

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It's just a matter of time before renegotiations start - NOT just with Switzerland and the EU, but within the EU itself. We are just seeing the beginning of a snowball effect - exciting times!!
For well over thirty years now I've been hearing about how the EEC/EU was done and would soon fall apart... funny then at the last election the majority of EU citizens voted for parties who's objectives are for a more integrated Europe!

The EU is a fact of live, get over it!
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  #1034  
Old 15.11.2014, 14:35
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Well that make four by my count: Germany, Norway, Sweden, Ireland and I think Finland was not too positive either.

For the EU, the free movement must be on all levels: goods, capital and labour.
You can also add Spain due to Catalan!


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well, I see it differently


With each passing week I am more and more fed up with being held hostage of the SVP (28% of the electorate, but 80% of the headlines) who demonize the Bilaterals, which are much to the advantage of Switzerland

I am more fed up than ever to be confronted by a billionaire and his lakais who feel TO BE THE PEOPLE, and who get angry when they LOSE votes
spite of all his millions
[/I]
Indeed!

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Oh no! Not Ireland! Let's hope Luxembourg does not turn against us now!

A good thing that Andorra is not part of the EU, they'd crush us.
It only needs one EU country to vote against, now there are at least 5.

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..........................And the SVP is not Mr. Blocher, neither is Mr. Blocher the SVP! I know several instances where SVP members have gone the opposite way of Mr. Blocher, and right now there are whole swathes of SVP members who are voting for ECOPOP against the will of Mr. Blocher!! .............................
Ironic; as Adolf Ogi (Adolf Ogi was elected to the Swiss Federal Council in 1987, and member of the Swiss People's Party) wrote "Blocher is like a horse carriage driver who has lost control of his horses" - after decades of promoting foreigners as responsible for all Swiss problems he now cannot stop the monster he created.

Sorry for cutting short your long rant but I do not want to post an equally long reply, just a couple more comments;
About "the SVP is not Mr. Blocher"; are you saying he is failing in his role as chief strategist and the SVP are not following his strategies?

About "solutions"; when did the SVP ever propose solutions? They, like the Greens, always make proposals to stop or ban things; never offer solutions.
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  #1035  
Old 15.11.2014, 14:39
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Many possible much cleverer solutions than the current propaganda for zombies a la walking dead:

a) Make immigrants pay a toll towards infrastructures

b) Make high skilled and high educated immigrants Swiss faster than the others, so that the country can benefit durably from this.

c) Put reasonable income thressholds to renew permits.

d) Pay Swiss people abroad better if they return.

e) Pay better money if people leave the country and their job to foster mobility.

f) Buy land. Switzerland has a lot of money it is rather strange it does not buy land rather than absolutely USELESS gold.

g) Invest in renewable energy much much more.

h) Invest in education, much much more

i) Invest in research much much much more.

j) Invest on healthcare much much much much more.

k) Invest in telework for all those jobs that can be done from home.
Which are many, but for a matter of stupidity and controlling culture, this is not supported. BECAUSE THE BOSS HAS TO SEE THE WORKERS TICKING THE HOURSS !!!!!

eccetera eccetera.

Propaganda kills the logical thoughts, so to all the solutions above, which would curb effectively the problem, it was preferred an idiot screming "AHHHH THESE IMMIGRANTSS, THEY RAPE OUR POTATOES and TOMATOES!!!"

To enter a row with the EU, which will only end with a lot of time and opportunities wasted by everybody.
About "Invest in telework for all those jobs that can be done from home." Good idea, then Switzerland could benefit from the skills of foreigners without bringing them into the country and avoiding the work permit problems.
Of course, then these workers would not be paying taxes and buying goods here which would be a negative point.
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Old 15.11.2014, 15:05
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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You accept the FMOP which is going to help spread the load of the unemployed in Europe, which is going to increase your healthcare spending, your social welfare spending, your public services spending, your infrastructure spending, your crime rates, your prison populations, your police and judicial spending etc ... ...
Some good news for you and your views;

Earlier this week, the EU Court of Justice ruled that the governments can deny social help to unemployed immigrants in their territory
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  #1037  
Old 15.11.2014, 16:14
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Oh no! Not Ireland! Let's hope Luxembourg does not turn against us now!
Well here is the thing, it only takes one member to say no and for an EU treaty change to be accepted, there would have to be a referendum in Ireland! So it is the Irish people and not the Irish government that has the final say!

This is now also the case in Denmark and France as far as I know. Which is one of the reasons why no one is too excited about opening up that can of worms unless the absolutely have to.
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Old 15.11.2014, 19:26
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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It only needs one EU country to vote against, now there are at least 5.
I thought unanimity is gone?

You might technically be right, but politicians jumping on the table, pounding their chest and screaming "Over my dead body!!!" is part of the show not the actual decision process. If it was, nothing would be decided ever.

The decision will, as always, mainly be depending on the big 4 in the EU (Germany, France, the UK and Italy). Three of them would be the most affected by an escalation because they are neighbours of Switzerland and have the strongest economical ties and one of them wants to push in a similar direction as Switzerland.

It's irrelevant what Charlie what's-his-face has to say about that.
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Old 15.11.2014, 20:00
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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I thought unanimity is gone?

You might technically be right, but politicians jumping on the table, pounding their chest and screaming "Over my dead body!!!" is part of the show not the actual decision process. If it was, nothing would be decided ever.

The decision will, as always, mainly be depending on the big 4 in the EU (Germany, France, the UK and Italy). Three of them would be the most affected by an escalation because they are neighbours of Switzerland and have the strongest economical ties and one of them wants to push in a similar direction as Switzerland.

It's irrelevant what Charlie what's-his-face has to say about that.
About "I thought unanimity is gone? " No, still there!
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Old 15.11.2014, 21:02
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About "I thought unanimity is gone? " No, still there!
This was a huge discussion some pages before. Somebody claimed that the unanimity is not required any more to cancel the contracts from EU side (although known experts on that publicly disagreed).

I don't know if this is true. If it is, the same should be the case for changing them as well.


Either way - the most plausible type of escalation is probably Switzerland unilaterally ignoring the contracts. The EU would then have to, unanimously or not, cancel the contracts.
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