Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1081  
Old 18.11.2014, 01:12
EAB EAB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern, Switzerland
Posts: 479
Groaned at 118 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 403 Times in 194 Posts
EAB has made some interesting contributions
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
You have elected yourself into a difficult role; defending the SVP when you are not part of their inner circle.
Consequently you will experience that your foundation suddenly moves in an direction that you did not expect because you are not in the informed group.
I have not "elected" myself to anything ... so you lost me. And you ARE part of some "inner circle"? Are you in some "informed group"!? Come on....

Quote:
About "there is also nothing inherently wrong with saying that Swiss citizens should be given priority over non-Swiss citizens when it comes to employment" I completely agree but that is not what was defined in the initiative! Although many people incorrectly believed that was the proposal

Sorry forgot to write "Schweizerinnen und Schweizer" does not translate to Swiss citizens!
If they meant Swiss citizens then they would have written something very clear like "Schweizer Bürger und Bürgerin"; sadly the people you spoke to were fooled like you
Yeah!? Really!? Prove it! To me you are the very first source that has come up with this ...

According to http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de: (same definitions found on http://www.dict.cc and http://dict.leo.org)

Schweizer {m}; Schweizerin {f} [soc.] Swiss

die Schweizer {pl} the Swiss

People without Swiss passports are not "Swiss" - no matter how long they have lived here!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EAB for this useful post:
  #1082  
Old 18.11.2014, 02:21
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
I have not "elected" myself to anything ... so you lost me. And you ARE part of some "inner circle"? Are you in some "informed group"!? Come on....

Yeah!? Really!? Prove it! To me you are the very first source that has come up with this ...

According to http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de: (same definitions found on http://www.dict.cc and http://dict.leo.org)

Schweizer {m}; Schweizerin {f} [soc.] Swiss

die Schweizer {pl} the Swiss

People without Swiss passports are not "Swiss" - no matter how long they have lived here!
You are simply confirming that you and your friends did not understand the initiative; "Swiss people" is not the same as "Swiss citizens" so confirming my point; exactly what Blocher and Brunner said multiple times.
It is the difference between Einlaender and citizens that is the key point here; the initiative is all about giving priority to Einlaender in selection for jobs; not Swiss passport holders.

It is nothing to do with how long they lived here, simply about the exact wording of the initiative.
Reply With Quote
  #1083  
Old 18.11.2014, 04:39
EAB EAB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern, Switzerland
Posts: 479
Groaned at 118 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 403 Times in 194 Posts
EAB has made some interesting contributions
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
You are simply confirming that you and your friends did not understand the initiative; "Swiss people" is not the same as "Swiss citizens" so confirming my point; exactly what Blocher and Brunner said multiple times.
It is the difference between Einlaender and citizens that is the key point here; the initiative is all about giving priority to Einlaender in selection for jobs; not Swiss passport holders.

It is nothing to do with how long they lived here, simply about the exact wording of the initiative.
So you somehow think that people become Swiss by entering Switzerland? - Or that by obtaining a work/residency permit you are therefore "Swiss"!?

In my view you are wrong in saying that "Swiss people" are not the same as "Swiss citizens" - to me that is EXACTLY what "Swiss" means - being a citizen of this country.

I obtained a permanent residency permit for Australia, but never was I "Australian" - not by my own account, not by the Australian government, and not by anyone else.

So where do you get this idea from!? As for the word "Einlaender" (Or "Einländer"), I cannot find any reference to this word online, nor have I heard it before. The other word you used before was "Inländer" which simply means "Resident". A "Resident" is not "Swiss". One only gains the title "Swiss" by becoming a "Schweizerinnen" or "Schweizer".

But please do provide some proof that the wording of the MEI was deliberately formulated to be misleading - since that is clearly what you are insinuating.

Last edited by EAB; 18.11.2014 at 04:50.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank EAB for this useful post:
  #1084  
Old 18.11.2014, 07:30
Texaner's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 2,048
Groaned at 99 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 2,984 Times in 1,429 Posts
Texaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond reputeTexaner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Getting a bit repetitive there mate...
Get used to it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Texaner for this useful post:
  #1085  
Old 18.11.2014, 08:14
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Have the Swiss courts ruled on whether "Swiss people" includes non-citizens?
Reply With Quote
  #1086  
Old 18.11.2014, 08:32
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,243
Groaned at 1,169 Times in 916 Posts
Thanked 25,138 Times in 12,036 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
"Schweizerinnen und Schweizer" does not translate to Swiss citizens!
Yes, it does, same as American means "US citizen".

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #1087  
Old 18.11.2014, 09:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 5,153
Groaned at 160 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 6,569 Times in 3,373 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

What is a "Schweizer/in"?

It should be defined in the Constution, shouldn't it? Well, it's not explicitly defined, but the context makes it clear. The first mention of "Schweizer" is in articles 24 and 25 (before that the Constitution speaks of the "Schweizervolk"):

"Art. 24 Niederlassungsfreiheit
1 Schweizerinnen und Schweizer haben das Recht, sich an jedem Ort des Landes niederzulassen.
2 Sie haben das Recht, die Schweiz zu verlassen oder in die Schweiz einzureisen.

Art. 25 Schutz vor Ausweisung, Auslieferung und Ausschaffung
1 Schweizerinnen und Schweizer dürfen nicht aus der Schweiz ausgewiesen werden; sie dürfen nur mit ihrem Einverständnis an eine ausländische Behörde ausgeliefert werden.
[...]"

§24.2 does not apply to foreigners as they are not free to enter as they please.
§25.1 is common for most contries, applies to citizens only. For instance, rejected applicants for asylum are expelled.

Red passport = citizenship = Schweizer/in

Last edited by Urs Max; 18.11.2014 at 11:26. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #1088  
Old 18.11.2014, 11:09
Don Molina's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 722
Groaned at 26 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 1,030 Times in 442 Posts
Don Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
I have not "elected" myself to anything ... so you lost me. And you ARE part of some "inner circle"? Are you in some "informed group"!? Come on....
OK, so just a reminder: You are participating in a forum with people that came from another country to Switzerland for myriads of reasons, and many of them feel that the SVP simply doesn't want them and whatever they might bring with them (some will say expertise and valuable skills; others will say exploitation of social help and benefits and even maybe diseases).

And in a discussion about one of the most important issues for our lives (as immigrants and guests in this foreign to us country) you refer to a most vocal leader that is making all these people (us) uncomfortable as "Mr. Blocher".


Now, I don't want to imply that one should not aspire to be polite and gentlemanly, but I've never seen anyone defend a party and a person with such vigour.

I've met people that never worked their entire lives (them and their families and their families' families) simply because they were members of any given party, and yet they never referred to anyone as "Mr. Papandreou", "Mr. Karamanlis", or anything of the sort. And these politicians were true benefactors to them, it was much more than simple alignment of interests and ideals.


So when you articulate your arguments as you do for the duration of this thread that I have been following (with much amazement might I add), it is crystal clear that you consider yourself an SVP champion and you take a lot of pride in that too.
__________________
Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Don Molina for this useful post:
  #1089  
Old 18.11.2014, 11:23
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
I have not "elected" myself to anything ... so you lost me. And you ARE part of some "inner circle"? Are you in some "informed group"!? Come on....

Yeah!? Really!? Prove it! To me you are the very first source that has come up with this ...

According to http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de: (same definitions found on http://www.dict.cc and http://dict.leo.org)

Schweizer {m}; Schweizerin {f} [soc.] Swiss

die Schweizer {pl} the Swiss

People without Swiss passports are not "Swiss" - no matter how long they have lived here!

Alright, but please forget the "passports and use CITIZENSHIPS instead, as most Swiss do NOT have passports
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #1090  
Old 18.11.2014, 12:02
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
So you somehow think that people become Swiss by entering Switzerland? - Or that by obtaining a work/residency permit you are therefore "Swiss"!?

In my view you are wrong in saying that "Swiss people" are not the same as "Swiss citizens" - to me that is EXACTLY what "Swiss" means - being a citizen of this country.

I obtained a permanent residency permit for Australia, but never was I "Australian" - not by my own account, not by the Australian government, and not by anyone else.

So where do you get this idea from!? As for the word "Einlaender" (Or "Einländer"), I cannot find any reference to this word online, nor have I heard it before. The other word you used before was "Inländer" which simply means "Resident". A "Resident" is not "Swiss". One only gains the title "Swiss" by becoming a "Schweizerinnen" or "Schweizer".

But please do provide some proof that the wording of the MEI was deliberately formulated to be misleading - since that is clearly what you are insinuating.
About "do provide some proof that the wording of the MEI was deliberately formulated to be misleading"

I think your memory is failing , I posted this before here.

Anyway (again) look here at the interview with Blocher!
and I quote
"Ohne Arbeit dürfen sie gar nicht da bleiben?
Doch eben: In der Rezession sind auch Stellen zu besetzen wegen der Fluktuation. Und die Frage ist, wer den Vorzug haben soll. In der Verfassung steht jetzt «Schweizerinnen und Schweizer». Das ist ein Sammelbegriff für den Schweizer Arbeitsmarkt.

Also auch Niedergelassene mit C-Ausweis?
Ja sicher. Darunter gemeint sind alle Vermittlungsfähigen in der Schweiz. Im alten Ausländergesetz nannte man sie «Inländer»
."

I assume we should believe the man who wrote the initiative?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #1091  
Old 18.11.2014, 12:36
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
What is a "Schweizer/in"?

It should be defined in the Constution, shouldn't it? Well, it's not explicitly defined, but the context makes it clear. The first mention of "Schweizer" is in articles 24 and 25 (before that the Constitution speaks of the "Schweizervolk"):

"Art. 24 Niederlassungsfreiheit
1 Schweizerinnen und Schweizer haben das Recht, sich an jedem Ort des Landes niederzulassen.
2 Sie haben das Recht, die Schweiz zu verlassen oder in die Schweiz einzureisen.

Art. 25 Schutz vor Ausweisung, Auslieferung und Ausschaffung
1 Schweizerinnen und Schweizer dürfen nicht aus der Schweiz ausgewiesen werden; sie dürfen nur mit ihrem Einverständnis an eine ausländische Behörde ausgeliefert werden.
[...]"

§24.2 does not apply to foreigners as they are not free to enter as they please.
§25.1 is common for most contries, applies to citizens only. For instance, rejected applicants for asylum are expelled.

Red passport = citizenship = Schweizer/in
Could be Blocher means by Inländer "inländische Arbeitnehmerinnen und Arbeitnehmer" according to AuG Art. 21 Vorrang.
Reply With Quote
  #1092  
Old 18.11.2014, 12:38
EAB EAB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern, Switzerland
Posts: 479
Groaned at 118 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 403 Times in 194 Posts
EAB has made some interesting contributions
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
I think your memory is failing , I posted this before here.
Nope, memory is doing pretty well by me. I don't think I did much of anything on that thread, and I certainly don't keep a ongoing recount of all posts I read on EF

Quote:
Anyway (again) look here at the interview with Blocher!
and I quote
"Ohne Arbeit dürfen sie gar nicht da bleiben?
Doch eben: In der Rezession sind auch Stellen zu besetzen wegen der Fluktuation. Und die Frage ist, wer den Vorzug haben soll. In der Verfassung steht jetzt «Schweizerinnen und Schweizer». Das ist ein Sammelbegriff für den Schweizer Arbeitsmarkt.

Also auch Niedergelassene mit C-Ausweis?
Ja sicher. Darunter gemeint sind alle Vermittlungsfähigen in der Schweiz. Im alten Ausländergesetz nannte man sie «Inländer»
."

I assume we should believe the man who wrote the initiative?
The part I found the most definitive was this one:

"In der Verfassung steht aber seit Sonntag, zuerst Schweizer dann Ausländer. Sonst hätten Sie in den Initiativtext «Niedergelassene» schreiben müssen.
Es steht Vorrang der Schweizer. «Niedergelassene» ist nicht ein Verfassungsbegriff. Gemeint sind alle «Inländer», die vermittelbar sind, nicht Schweizer Bürger. Auch der Bundesrat hat dies im Abstimmungsbüchlein erwähnt."


So it does seem that his meaning of "Schweizerinnen und Schweizer" does indeed encompass foreign residents of Switzerland (This should make you very happy ). However, even though it is HIS meaning, and even though it was noted in the Abstimmungsbüchlein, it is still to be seen if it will be allowed to be used that way and in that context when bearing in mind the other references in the Swiss Constitution to these particular words.

But even if this is how the MEI text itself, now part of the Swiss Constitution, will be enacted, as I have already said earlier ... "I think that it would be fine to say "Let's give employment priority to Swiss citizens and CURRENT permit holders before freshly entering immigrants"" ... I don't think anyone would really take issue with that ... and as such this would not have changed my vote one bit - it still takes me to a YES vote!

Additionally, if this is how the MEI text is to be enacted, and how foreign residents of Switzerland have been viewing it, I don't see why the foreign residents are so riled up. - If anything you should be PLEASED with this initiative as it could help in cutting back the constant influx of competition to YOUR employment opportunities here! So why all the fuss if all along your livelihoods were never threatened!?
Reply With Quote
  #1093  
Old 18.11.2014, 12:50
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,609 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
Nope, memory is doing pretty well by me. I don't think I did much of anything on that thread, and I certainly don't keep a ongoing recount of all posts I read on EF

The part I found the most definitive was this one:

"In der Verfassung steht aber seit Sonntag, zuerst Schweizer dann Ausländer. Sonst hätten Sie in den Initiativtext «Niedergelassene» schreiben müssen.
Es steht Vorrang der Schweizer. «Niedergelassene» ist nicht ein Verfassungsbegriff. Gemeint sind alle «Inländer», die vermittelbar sind, nicht Schweizer Bürger. Auch der Bundesrat hat dies im Abstimmungsbüchlein erwähnt."


So it does seem that his meaning of "Schweizerinnen und Schweizer" does indeed encompass foreign residents of Switzerland (This should make you very happy ). However, even though it is HIS meaning, and even though it was noted in the Abstimmungsbüchlein, it is still to be seen if it will be allowed to be used that way and in that context when bearing in mind the other references in the Swiss Constitution to these particular words.

But even if this is how the MEI text itself, now part of the Swiss Constitution, will be enacted, as I have already said earlier ... "I think that it would be fine to say "Let's give employment priority to Swiss citizens and CURRENT permit holders before freshly entering immigrants"" ... I don't think anyone would really take issue with that ... and as such this would not have changed my vote one bit - it still takes me to a YES vote!

Additionally, if this is how the MEI text is to be enacted, and how foreign residents of Switzerland have been viewing it, I don't see why the foreign residents are so riled up. - If anything you should be PLEASED with this initiative as it could help in cutting back the constant influx of competition to YOUR employment opportunities here! So why all the fuss if all along your livelihoods were never threatened!?
Thanks! You are correct that is a better quote.

About " (This should make you very happy )" Not really, I quoted what Blocher said and then provided the proof.

About " I don't see why the foreign residents are so riled up." Because as you wrote the text was deliberately misleading; I wonder what the vote would have been if people had fully understood all of the initiative?
Clearly other people who posted here did not fully understand!
Reply With Quote
  #1094  
Old 18.11.2014, 13:11
EAB EAB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern, Switzerland
Posts: 479
Groaned at 118 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 403 Times in 194 Posts
EAB has made some interesting contributions
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
About " I don't see why the foreign residents are so riled up." Because as you wrote the text was deliberately misleading; I wonder what the vote would have been if people had fully understood all of the initiative?
Clearly other people who posted here did not fully understand!
Well, I don't quite know in what way it was "deliberately misleading" just yet. One could argue that Mr. Blocher was in fact knowledgeable of the usage and context of those two words in the Swiss Constitution, and perhaps knew that even if he said something else in interviews and had something else written in the Abstimmungsbüchlein, that nevertheless those two words would be utilised in the context of how they are used in the Swiss Constitution. So perhaps his "deliberately misleading" was targeting the foreign immigrants and not the Swiss electorate - or perhaps it targeted the foreign immigrants, foreigners and the Swiss electorate who would oppose the MEI.

If we follow the logic that the text was "deliberately misleading" to those who voted YES for the MEI we have to assume that had these words been exchanged for the equivalent to "Resident" and "Swiss Citizen" that those who voted YES would have voted NO. I don't think this would have been the case at all. From all the discussions I had with YES voters the presently employed and resident foreigners were never ever an issue - it was purely the future prospect of an endless influx of NEW immigrants that troubled us!

For Mr. Blocher, and the other MEI founders and backers, to place "deliberately misleading" text in there for the purpose of misleading the Swiss electorate make little sense to me, since (from what I experienced face-to-face and online) the Swiss electorate who were for the MEI were not interested in deporting swathes of hard working, residency permit holders, from Switzerland - we/they saw the work they were doing and how they were an asset to this country - but rather we/they were focused on regaining the ability to determine independently our own immigrations policies and as such create an avenue to limit immigration if and when the need arises. - The MEI does just that.

Regarding you having quoted me in saying, "I don't see why the foreign residents are so riled up.", I think you are taking it out of context. Please re-read the paragraph it was part of.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EAB for this useful post:
  #1095  
Old 18.11.2014, 15:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 5,153
Groaned at 160 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 6,569 Times in 3,373 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
"In der Verfassung steht aber seit Sonntag, zuerst Schweizer dann Ausländer. Sonst hätten Sie in den Initiativtext «Niedergelassene» schreiben müssen.
Es steht Vorrang der Schweizer. «Niedergelassene» ist nicht ein Verfassungsbegriff. Gemeint sind alle «Inländer», die vermittelbar sind, nicht Schweizer Bürger. Auch der Bundesrat hat dies im Abstimmungsbüchlein erwähnt."
Blocher is lawyer by profession and was member of the parliament or Bundesrat for almost thirty years. As such he can't be not aware of the meaning of "Schweizer" in the Constitution.

For instance
"Art. 59 Militär- und Ersatzdienst
1 Jeder Schweizer ist verpflichtet, Militärdienst zu leisten. Das Gesetz sieht einen zivilen Ersatzdienst vor."

So does he expect foreigners to serve? Since he can't possibly not be aware of the real meaning there's only on possibility:

He's lying. Plain and simple.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #1096  
Old 18.11.2014, 16:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,981
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,049 Times in 1,795 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
In my view you are wrong in saying that "Swiss people" are not the same as "Swiss citizens" - to me that is EXACTLY what "Swiss" means - being a citizen of this country.
not to put too fine a point on it, but I suspect there are plenty of people who would quibble with you about there being no difference between being "Swiss" and being a "Swiss citizen".
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #1097  
Old 18.11.2014, 18:41
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,253
Groaned at 181 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 17,624 Times in 7,484 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
So does he expect foreigners to serve? Since he can't possibly not be aware of the real meaning there's only on possibility:
I can well imagine that he wouldn't be totally opposed to the suggestion.
Reply With Quote
  #1098  
Old 18.11.2014, 21:55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Aachen
Posts: 308
Groaned at 58 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 260 Times in 131 Posts
SteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of manySteAlka has earned the respect of many
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
I can well imagine that he wouldn't be totally opposed to the suggestion.
I would love to serve in the military service and have a rifle .
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SteAlka for this useful post:
  #1099  
Old 18.11.2014, 23:10
11HoursInTheTinPan's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 504
Groaned at 19 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 892 Times in 354 Posts
11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute11HoursInTheTinPan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
The EU does not have to do anything, once we break the agreement it is over and the domino effect causes all other parts of the agreement to fall as well.
No, that's not how it works. There are a lot of international treaties which are just ignored by either side. It does not terminate by itself, it has to be terminated by a political process.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank 11HoursInTheTinPan for this useful post:
  #1100  
Old 19.11.2014, 00:44
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,243
Groaned at 1,169 Times in 916 Posts
Thanked 25,138 Times in 12,036 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

Quote:
View Post
I would love to serve in the military service and have a rifle .
My wife didn't, but still had a shotgun and pistol.

But she's Swiss.

Tom
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
erasmus, european union, fmop, horizon, immigration, masseneinwanderung, vote




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Immigration status of Non-EU starting a business in Switzerland alesco Business & entrepreneur 28 09.11.2015 14:26
Masseneinwanderung [Immigration] vote - Facts Slaphead Swiss politics/news 4 29.06.2014 19:59
Is there any age limits to starting a PhD? Breezy Family matters/health 15 18.11.2012 01:23
Immigration limits in the UK: what about scientists? HashBrown International affairs/politics 5 08.10.2010 00:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0