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  #1481  
Old 21.08.2015, 17:49
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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Huh!?!? Ok, this is just getting confusing.
There are two different, separate instances here.

1. The "proposal" to the Joint Committee and the reply to that "proposal"
2. The letter from the FOM to the EEAS and the reply from the VP of the EC.

1. We don't know (as of yet) what that "proposal" was exactly since we (as of yet) do not have the text. That "proposal" was rejected by the EC.

2. We know the contents of both the letter from the FOM as well as the reply from the VP of the EC. The letter from the FOM states the request to "meet" for to "exchange views on the matter and to discuss possible next steps". This request was rejected in the letter from the VP of the EC.

I hope that's the last time I have to repeat that!!


The letter from the FOM states;
Therefore as already announced at the Joint Committee meeting of June2014, I confirm Switzerland’s request to revise the Agreement in accordance with its article 18."


This is the only place in the FOM letter that the word "request" is used.


In case you have forgotten the link to the letter you provided is here https://www.eda.admin.ch/content/dam...ren-FZA_EN.pdf


Please feel free to repeat your version of the FOM letter as often as you wish, we have access to the genuine one!
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  #1482  
Old 21.08.2015, 17:54
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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Tick-Tock ... seems like it's only a matter of time ...
Methinks he's playing to the right wing of his own electorate. Parties like AfD are threatening to run riot in the CDU's right wing strongholds so a bit of strong man posing is required to ensure supporters that the CDU has not totally lost its marbles (which of course it has, but the question is how much longer can they pretend).

This is similar to what happened in the UK in the 1980s when initially Tory backbenchers started scoring cheap points by taking between the lines swipes at the EU and the whole thing gradually evolving into euroscepticism as a political standpoint.
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  #1483  
Old 21.08.2015, 18:01
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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Tick-Tock ... seems like it's only a matter of time ...
The Schengen agreement and FMoP / bilaterals are totally independent of each other.

I am sure you have no idea that Switzerland could start border checks this very night if the need arises, without any protest from the EU. In fact checks on the Italian border are ongoing and frequent.

So tick-tock, until the FMoP and the bilaterals are restored
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  #1484  
Old 21.08.2015, 18:08
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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The letter from the FOM states;
Therefore as already announced at the Joint Committee meeting of June2014, I confirm Switzerland’s request to revise the Agreement in accordance with its article 18."


This is the only place in the FOM letter that the word "request" is used.


In case you have forgotten the link to the letter you provided is here https://www.eda.admin.ch/content/dam...ren-FZA_EN.pdf


Please feel free to repeat your version of the FOM letter as often as you wish, we have access to the genuine one!
What are you going on about?? I know they made a request... I don't know why you keep highlighting that. What's your bleeding point?
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  #1485  
Old 21.08.2015, 18:12
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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The Schengen agreement and FMoP / bilaterals are totally independent of each other.
Did I say anything which said otherwise??

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I am sure you have no idea that Switzerland could start border checks this very night if the need arises, without any protest from the EU. In fact checks on the Italian border are ongoing and frequent.

So tick-tock, until the FMoP and the bilaterals are restored
I am sure I don't give a hoot what you think I may or may not have an idea on.
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  #1486  
Old 21.08.2015, 23:05
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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What are you going on about?? I know they made a request... I don't know why you keep highlighting that. What's your bleeding point?
Ah! another example of your sophisticated debating skills!

The point is the EU in July 2014 did not refuse a request for a meeting; the point is the EU did not agree to the Swiss request to negotiate according to Article 18. Which was a very significant decision point
Pity you do not understand the difference, maybe you should think about it overnight or ask somebody who understands such complex concepts?
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  #1487  
Old 21.08.2015, 23:47
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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The point is the EU in July 2014 did not refuse a request for a meeting; the point is the EU did not agree to the Swiss request to negotiate according to Article 18. Which was a very significant decision point
Pity you do not understand the difference, maybe you should think about it overnight or ask somebody who understands such complex concepts?
Now you are just being stupid - yes, stupid!

The letter from the FOM requested a meeting to discuss the topic further, which was the same topic addressed in the June meeting with the JC. The response from the EU rejects the "request" - whether that is directly or indirectly referring to the "request" Mr. Gattiker was referring to (the one having been made to the JC) is not clear, and there is nothing else in the letter from the EU that states that there is any willingness from the EU to meet with Mr. Gattiker in the capacity to which he was requesting a meeting - AKA the meeting to "exchange views on the matter and to discuss possible next steps" was not - I repeat N-O-T - granted! - AKA, it was either rejected or flat out ignored, the later being just as much of a rejection at this level!

So you can play your little mind games with yourself. It's clear what has been done - if your not man enough to see it - tough!
Have a good weekend!
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  #1488  
Old 21.08.2015, 23:59
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

So, time to dump the bilaterals and tell the EU scum where to stick it.

Tom
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  #1489  
Old 22.08.2015, 00:13
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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Now you are just being stupid - yes, stupid!

The letter from the FOM requested a meeting to discuss the topic further, which was the same topic addressed in the June meeting with the JC. The response from the EU rejects the "request" - whether that is directly or indirectly referring to the "request" Mr. Gattiker was referring to (the one having been made to the JC) is not clear, and there is nothing else in the letter from the EU that states that there is any willingness from the EU to meet with Mr. Gattiker in the capacity to which he was requesting a meeting - AKA the meeting to "exchange views on the matter and to discuss possible next steps" was not - I repeat N-O-T - granted! - AKA, it was either rejected or flat out ignored, the later being just as much of a rejection at this level!

So you can play your little mind games with yourself. It's clear what has been done - if your not man enough to see it - tough!
Have a good weekend!
No problem. I see you get frustrated and angry when you fail to understand things and then you write unpleasant statements that you do not really mean.

I recommend you continue posting and try harder to understand other people's posts. For my part I will try to keep my posts as simple as I can to help your understanding.
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  #1490  
Old 22.08.2015, 03:31
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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What proposal was submitted to the Joint Committee and what was the outcome!?

Seems to me like some people here don't comprehend the Article 18. It clearly states that "If a Contracting Party wishes to have this Agreement revised, it shall submit a proposal to that effect to the Joint Committee." - and this is in effect what is meant by bringing the EU to the negotiation table since the Joint Committee is comprised of representatives of both the EU and Switzerland! The Joint Committee is then to make a decision on this proposal and thereby the negotiation has been completed! Has this process occurred!? Has this process even begun!? Not that I am aware.
So if I understand you correctly you'd be happy if the boys from Brussels to turned up, listened to the Swiss proposal, politely say no and head home? Because with only two parties to the treaty and one not interested in negotiating that is the only outcome possible.
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  #1491  
Old 22.08.2015, 09:17
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Re: Repercussions of Vote Already Starting...

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So if I understand you correctly you'd be happy if the boys from Brussels to turned up, listened to the Swiss proposal, politely say no and head home? Because with only two parties to the treaty and one not interested in negotiating that is the only outcome possible.


According to the Swiss FOM letter, I quote "as already announced at the Joint Committee meeting of June2014, I confirm Switzerland’s request to revise the Agreement in accordance with its article"
I assume that what you describe is exactly what happened. Switzerland made the request and the Joint Committee did not say "yes".
Exactly what they said we do not know because the Joint Committee meetings are not public and they do not publish their Minutes for the public.


But clearly it was not "yes".

Last edited by marton; 22.08.2015 at 09:36.
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  #1492  
Old 22.08.2015, 14:26
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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Now you are just being stupid - yes, stupid!

The letter from the FOM requested a meeting to discuss the topic further, which was the same topic addressed in the June meeting with the JC. The response from the EU rejects the "request" - whether that is directly or indirectly referring to the "request" Mr. Gattiker was referring to (the one having been made to the JC) is not clear, and there is nothing else in the letter from the EU that states that there is any willingness from the EU to meet with Mr. Gattiker in the capacity to which he was requesting a meeting - AKA the meeting to "exchange views on the matter and to discuss possible next steps" was not - I repeat N-O-T - granted! - AKA, it was either rejected or flat out ignored, the later being just as much of a rejection at this level!

So you can play your little mind games with yourself. It's clear what has been done - if your not man enough to see it - tough!
Have a good weekend!
From Gattikers letter:
"Therefore, as already announced at the Joint Committee meeting of June 2014, I confirm Switzerland’s request to revise the Agreement, in accordance with its article 18."
"[The intended amendment] aims at the introduction of a new admission system based on quantitative limits and quotas, combined with a preference for nationals."

While you're technically right in that what was actually proposed at the JC meeting is unknown, the Gattiker letter clearly indicates what it was about. Most importantly it explicitly mentions article 121a and what CH is aiming for. Your surrounding the term request with quotes is unwarranted.

Your insinuations appear quite paranoid. And completely unfounded.
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  #1493  
Old 24.08.2015, 10:55
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

Gone quiet here

Various newspapers are claiming that the Bundesrat are trying to distance themselves from the RASA initiative; they want to avoid any EU discussions before the October elections.

Didier Burkhalter said in an interview that the 3 year implementation period for the MEI is not "set in stone"; such deadlines do not help the Swiss negotiating position. He also said "we are able to find a solution with Europe", whatever that means?
Link here in German language.
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  #1494  
Old 24.08.2015, 11:56
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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Gone quiet here

Various newspapers are claiming that the Bundesrat are trying to distance themselves from the RASA initiative; they want to avoid any EU discussions before the October elections.

Didier Burkhalter said in an interview that the 3 year implementation period for the MEI is not "set in stone"; such deadlines do not help the Swiss negotiating position. He also said "we are able to find a solution with Europe", whatever that means?
Link here in German language.
Methinks Burkhalter is unrealistically upbeat if he thinks a little extra time is all it's going to need. But maybe it's just election-time promises.

Meanwhile, I read an article in a newspaper I found on the train this morning (I think it was Tagi) that said BDP are likely to be annihiliated in the upcoming election, which might mean that Widmer-Schlumpf would have to leave the Bundersrat (if in fact she won't be doing so voluntarily). I was wondering if the SVP might be making moves to lay claim to her seat - and ideally (for them) be refused which would help them in their underdog strategy of demonstrating the other parties are operating closed shop. This might explain why they are lowering their profile in other areas to be able to concentrate on this battle.
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Old 24.08.2015, 12:23
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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So, time to dump the bilaterals and tell the EU scum where to stick it.

Tom
That scum is the source of more than 55% of all imports and the Destination of more than 60% of all exports. A good part of the tourists into Ticino originate from Germany. Strange is that the Ticino more depends on Germany than Schaffhausen








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  #1496  
Old 24.08.2015, 13:05
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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That scum is the source of more than 55% of all imports and the Destination of more than 60% of all exports…
I think the "scum" Tom was referring to are the parasitic European oligarchs, not the people and businesses they tax.
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  #1497  
Old 24.08.2015, 13:15
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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Meanwhile, I read an article in a newspaper I found on the train this morning (I think it was Tagi) that said BDP are likely to be annihiliated in the upcoming election, which might mean that Widmer-Schlumpf would have to leave the Bundersrat (if in fact she won't be doing so voluntarily).
That doesn't follow at all. Even with BDP, EWS was in a rather similar position last time around.

The Bundesrat is elected by the Bundesversammlung(both chambers of the parliament), not by a public vote. If the other parties want her to stay she'll get the necessary votes. Not that I'd like that, but that's how the system works here.
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  #1498  
Old 10.09.2015, 20:04
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

The EU parliament voted yesterday to refuse to negotiate with Switzerland about freedom of movement. Link here;
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...ML&language=EN

Point 18 in the PDF is the key point.
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  #1499  
Old 10.09.2015, 20:35
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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The EU parliament voted yesterday to refuse to negotiate with Switzerland about freedom of movement.
Screw 'em.

Tom
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Old 20.09.2015, 22:17
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Re: Repercussions of [immigration limits] Vote Already Starting...

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Screw 'em.

Tom
Screw UDC.

S.
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