Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27.08.2014, 19:02
RetiredInNH's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 2,219
Groaned at 13 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 1,427 Times in 722 Posts
Blog Entries: 13
RetiredInNH has a reputation beyond reputeRetiredInNH has a reputation beyond reputeRetiredInNH has a reputation beyond reputeRetiredInNH has a reputation beyond reputeRetiredInNH has a reputation beyond repute
Assisted suicide article

The Atlantic has a rather superficial article on assisted suicide in Switzerland: 'Going to Switzerland' Is a Euphemism for Assisted Suicide.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27.08.2014, 19:09
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 20,693
Groaned at 429 Times in 324 Posts
Thanked 23,665 Times in 10,723 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Assisted suicide article

Can't think of anything worse than having to travel to a foreign country, when debilitatingly ill, away from your loved ones, family, friends, the comfort of your own home- to die in a concrete box on an industrial estate.

So relieved that should I ever be struck with a debilitating disease I can no longer fight, I't be able to seek help in my own home, with my loved ones around me, listening to the garden birds sing.

Last edited by Odile; 27.08.2014 at 19:22.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 08.09.2017, 09:12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 376
Groaned at 10 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 455 Times in 211 Posts
scipio has an excellent reputationscipio has an excellent reputationscipio has an excellent reputationscipio has an excellent reputation
Re: Assisted suicide article

Quote:
View Post
It depends which data you look at and also you need to look behind the data.
Suicides in Switzerland are often recorded as accidents.
The former owner of the flat where we live first cut her wrists open, then jumped out of the window in the hospital.
Her death was officially recorded as an accident. Yet everyone knows it was suicide. It is worth noting that she had been turned down by an assisted suicide organization.
The data in your link does not tell the whole/real story.
Suicide rates in Switzerland have always been higher than elsewhere.
Switzerland's suicide rates have been higher than the ones of neighboring countries because it has very open laws when it comes to assisted suicides. In 2014 there were 1000 suicides and over 700 assisted suicides (the latter number is growing, the former quite stable but on a downwards trend).

In some statistics, especially older ones, these assisted suicides were included in the suicide rate. This is now no longer the case and some statistics do not take assisted suicides into account when calculating the suicide rates. In this case the suicide number of Switzerland are comparable to other countries.

There are good reasons not to include assisted suicide in calculation of the suicide rate, when you want to compare different countries. People tend to chose a method to commit suicide. If this method is not available people do not freely substitute with another method. E.g. since the military reform in Switzerland in 2004 the amount of firearms in homes decreased, so did the suicides in the relevant age group. There are studies showing that the two effects are connected. Same has been observed when reducing the packaging size of paracetamol or the removal of carbon monoxide from households.

Accordingly, countries that have open "assisted suicide laws/practices" will naturally have higher suicide rates, as the make a controlled and "humane" method of suicide available to the public. Furthermore, the vast majority of assisted suicides are committed by people suffering from severe or terminal diseases. So I guess one could argue that there is a completely different psychology underneath these suicides.

That's my take on the whole story.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank scipio for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 08.09.2017, 09:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,611
Groaned at 148 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 5,944 Times in 3,024 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Assisted suicide article

The chart that underscores what scipio just said:

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 12.09.2017, 00:48
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Gros de Vaud
Posts: 121
Groaned at 117 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 70 Times in 41 Posts
ohmy is considered unworthyohmy is considered unworthyohmy is considered unworthyohmy is considered unworthy
Re: Assisted suicide article

Some people attribute Switzerland's high rate of suicide to the at times depressing landscapes .There is a high rate of gun ownership of course but after all these years, I think the Swiss society is to blame first and foremost : the rule of money over everything, the de facto enslavement of many people and much injustice where the state is often responsible. Then there is traditional Switzerland colliding with the modern world not without collateral damage.

And may I point to the following : even ending your life cannot be free in Switzerland ! For if you give the slightest impression that you may consider suicide you are at high risk of being put away in a hospital (for which you have to pay of course). If you are terminally ill, no way they will let you do whatever you want to do with yourself at home without spending money. The overeaching state watches over you. However the state does allow a suicide industry to flourish and create a tourism of its own . That is Switzerland. Even when dying you have to be monetized, and after that maybe you'll get recycled (no joke if you have gold or metal in your body).

Last edited by ohmy; 12.09.2017 at 01:04.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank ohmy for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at ohmy for this post:
  #6  
Old 12.09.2017, 01:21
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,544
Groaned at 178 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 5,672 Times in 3,116 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Assisted suicide article

Quote:
View Post
Some people attribute Switzerland's high rate of suicide to the at times depressing landscapes .There is a high rate of gun ownership of course but after all these years, I think the Swiss society is to blame first and foremost : the rule of money over everything, the de facto enslavement of many people and much injustice where the state is often responsible. Then there is traditional Switzerland colliding with the modern world not without collateral damage.

And may I point to the following : even ending your life cannot be free in Switzerland ! For if you give the slightest impression that you may consider suicide you are at high risk of being put away in a hospital (for which you have to pay of course). If you are terminally ill, no way they will let you do whatever you want to do with yourself at home without spending money. The overeaching state watches over you. However the state does allow a suicide industry to flourish and create a tourism of its own . That is Switzerland. Even when dying you have to be monetized, and after that maybe you'll get recycled (no joke if you have gold or metal in your body).
You must have a degree from the trump universety
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank cannut for this useful post:
This user groans at cannut for this post:
  #7  
Old 12.09.2017, 02:00
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,073
Groaned at 22 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 744 Times in 448 Posts
Meerkat33 is considered knowledgeableMeerkat33 is considered knowledgeableMeerkat33 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Assisted suicide article

I don't think you can say that swiss suicide rate is high anymore.
Here is the 2014 data http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/map...olbox=classes#
it's lower than france and austria, 2 of the 4 neighbors, and similar to germany.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Meerkat33 for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 12.09.2017, 07:47
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 21,142
Groaned at 1,095 Times in 862 Posts
Thanked 23,808 Times in 11,378 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Assisted suicide article

Quote:
View Post
Some people attribute Switzerland's high rate of suicide to the at times depressing landscapes .
No, I think it's more to do with your absurd and depressing posts.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 12.09.2017, 09:26
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 3,162
Groaned at 76 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,903 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Assisted suicide article

I second Odile's comment. I am glad that we have this option in Switzerland. I find it surprisingly progressive and yes, humane. I do not understand why assisted suicide is so stigmatized elsewhere. It's not like everyone can just walk in and say, oh btw, I've spontaneously decided to end my life - there are very strict rules to follow. I would absolutely make use of it under certain circumstances. The prospect of only just barely vegetating, waiting for death or, worse yet, having to travel somewhere to die with some dignity, yeah, that cannot possibly be the better option.

This reminds me of that horrible story where this one guy, in his 80s and iirc plagued with severe depression chose to end his life with Exit which agreed to help him after assessing what needed to be assessed. His two brothers refused to accept it and sued Exit. Well, end of the story was that the guy committed suicide anyway, without Exit, and obviously while completely alone. Horrible.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 12.09.2017, 12:34
Patsycat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,253
Groaned at 49 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 2,898 Times in 1,144 Posts
Patsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Assisted suicide article

I also agree with Odile, I am actually seriously thinking of joining EXIT. I'm going to read about it again this weekend.

I would hate even having to go to Zurich for this. Much better to have the Romandie option, either at home or in the hospital. My family are totally behind me on this, I haven't spoken to my doctors yet.

I plan to live as long as I can, but with Cancer you just never know. I've got over the idea that I am going to die next week, I feel good (look like crap!!).

I just want to have everything sorted before when and if I have a decision to make. I don't want people arguing about it. It will be my decision, the last one I make. Morbid as it sounds, it's great to have that option. Lying in a hospital bed morphined up to my eyeballs, scared is not my idea of fun. It's my life, or what's left of it, not theirs.

Even before my illness, I was all for it. It's not the "easy way" out. That man's brothers should have thought more about him, not themselves. Poor guy.

Makes me sad that I am even thinking about death.

Last edited by Patsycat; 12.09.2017 at 12:46.
Reply With Quote
The following 11 users would like to thank Patsycat for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 23.09.2017, 18:13
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rotkreuz ZG
Posts: 605
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 790 Times in 342 Posts
heckenhocker has a reputation beyond reputeheckenhocker has a reputation beyond reputeheckenhocker has a reputation beyond reputeheckenhocker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Assisted suicide article

Quote:
View Post
I I've got over the idea that I am going to die next week, I feel good (look like crap!!).
well since you haven't got your blanket yet, you better not die next week

EXIT is a useful option to have on the table with long term chronic illness like cancer. We (Mr HH & I) already talked about it several times - and he feels that it gives him a safety net, if at the end point he decides not to continue taking 196 medications and fighting just to walk to the loo.

However knowing the "escape route" is there gives him the strength to give ghastly sounding treatments a go, as he knows he can pull the plug if it all gets horrendous.

Doctors are aware of his views, and there's definitely no pressure to consider EXIT, and no "judgement" reaction when we brought up the topic.

That said, speak with your Onco team. There will be someone who accompanies patients through their last moments, and will be able to answer questions. We've already been told that there is plenty of options for pain-relief, breathing support (meds to make it easier....apparently in the past lots of people died fighting for breath....they can sort that out). And apparently the vast majority of people are not scared at the end, but ready.

Gosh what a cheery Saturday afternoon chat

Take care all out there...
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank heckenhocker for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 23.09.2017, 19:00
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 6,770
Groaned at 308 Times in 205 Posts
Thanked 8,619 Times in 3,066 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Assisted suicide article

Quote:
View Post
Some people attribute Switzerland's high rate of suicide to the at times depressing landscapes .There is a high rate of gun ownership of course but after all these years, I think the Swiss society is to blame first and foremost : the rule of money over everything, the de facto enslavement of many people and much injustice where the state is often responsible. Then there is traditional Switzerland colliding with the modern world not without collateral damage.

And may I point to the following : even ending your life cannot be free in Switzerland ! For if you give the slightest impression that you may consider suicide you are at high risk of being put away in a hospital (for which you have to pay of course). If you are terminally ill, no way they will let you do whatever you want to do with yourself at home without spending money. The overeaching state watches over you. However the state does allow a suicide industry to flourish and create a tourism of its own . That is Switzerland. Even when dying you have to be monetized, and after that maybe you'll get recycled (no joke if you have gold or metal in your body).
You have an odd view of the world.

The main reason for Switzerland’s high suicide rate is the political system which places great stress on the individual and asks them to make life and death decisions every three months.

This is the “selber schuld” society where individuals determine their fate, rather than the welfare state...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 23.09.2017, 19:41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 329
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 194 Times in 111 Posts
bowlie has earned some respectbowlie has earned some respect
Re: Assisted suicide article

Thaks Odie, that!s exactly how I feel.

IIRC assisted suicide is not legal here. It just isn't illegal. The police investigate every death and will bring charges is they suspect undue influence.

That is as it should be.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 13.10.2017, 01:41
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,239
Groaned at 10 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 3,331 Times in 1,289 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Assisted suicide article

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti.../#.Wd_85IVOJuE
A terminally ill doctor who wishes her own life to be ended, and one of her terminally ill patients, have joined forces to apply to the South African Courts for permission.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13.10.2017, 07:37
FCBarca's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La Côte
Posts: 711
Groaned at 65 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 639 Times in 305 Posts
FCBarca has an excellent reputationFCBarca has an excellent reputationFCBarca has an excellent reputationFCBarca has an excellent reputation
Re: Assisted suicide article

Pointless to post US articles, even from The Atlantic, concerning anything Suisse considering the puritan landscape of their readers. Let's not forget what the Americans did to Kevorkian

Assisted suicide is absolutely humane in many circumstances and not at all surprising that Switzerland is progressive when it comes to civil rights
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Exit ? [Assisted Suicide] Odile Daily life 36 28.08.2013 16:56
Dementia assisted suicide reported Medea Fleecestealer Swiss politics/news 16 31.05.2013 11:00
More nursing homes allow assisted suicide The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 13.06.2012 10:46
Swiss canton to vote on assisted suicide The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 01.06.2012 11:43
Swiss assisted suicide stats - a first ever jrspet Swiss politics/news 40 01.04.2012 16:31


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0