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  #541  
Old 04.10.2017, 10:37
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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I am sorry but clearly you have no idea of the rules of that religion. I suggest you investigate a little more.

It is considered as "haram" to to make business with establishments who are involved in haram. Same idea with the Jews who would not even use the same grill where you cook kosher and non-kosher food. Is it in Quran, don't think so but much of the practices today are not.

As per Turkey. even though I am a non-believer today, I was raised as a muslim in Turkey. So, I call your example of Turkey as bullshit. Turkey is (surprisingly) still a secular country and not ruled via Islamic rules. Women with headscarfs(not burkas) are allowed work in state only in the last two years. In Turkey, most men drink alcohol albeit not in high quantities. We have our own beer production and culture. Most of the mosques are filled only on Friday noon prayers, other times they are mostly empty. We raise pork and snails to sell it Europe. Does that sound like a muslim country to you?
You seem very confused. Allow me to help.


are those three things officially haram or not? You say thea are, but then admit there is no mention of it in the koran, which forms the basis of these types of judgements.


Those things you mention are interpreted as haram, only to the very orthodox part of the muslim population. But, the vast majority of muslims in europe are not orthodox, they are very much moderate, as moderate as those in Turkey. They are perfectly happy to shop at coop but not buy pork, to eat in a restaurant that serves alcohol but either abstain or only have a glass or two, and to talk to men outside their immediate family.


You have constructed what is called a 'straw-man argument'. That means you made up your own counter-argument, to a point that no side is actually arguing.
I never said turkey was a muslim country, or that it was ruled according to muslim rules, i said most of the population is muslim. Big difference. You should know this, claiming to have grown up there.


As for the rest of your post, youre absolutely right...Turkey, with its (vast) majority muslim population, does all those things. Which just enforces the fact that your original three points are a load of nonsense.
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  #542  
Old 04.10.2017, 10:55
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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You seem very confused. Allow me to help.


are those three things officially haram or not? You say thea are, but then admit there is no mention of it in the koran, which forms the basis of these types of judgements.
oh dear, speak of confusion. what is being practiced and what is really required in koran are different things unfortunately. Take circumcision for example, the prophet Mohammed was not even circumcised but today they practice is that every muslim boy has to be. That is why I posted yesterday that burka and head scarfs has no place in Koran but it is being used as if they are must.

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Those things you mention are interpreted as haram, only to the very orthodox part of the muslim population. But, the vast majority of muslims in europe are not orthodox, they are very much moderate, as moderate as those in Turkey. They are perfectly happy to shop at coop but not buy pork, to eat in a restaurant that serves alcohol but either abstain or only have a glass or two, and to talk to men outside their immediate family.
I do not consider anyone with a burka as non- orthodox muslim. Also, you say vast majority of the muslims in Europe are not orthodox but my experience is otherwise. Maybe they dont show their real feelings when there is a non-muslim around.

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You have constructed what is called a 'straw-man argument'. That means you made up your own counter-argument, to a point that no side is actually arguing.
I never said turkey was a muslim country, or that it was ruled according to muslim rules, i said most of the population is muslim. Big difference. You should know this, claiming to have grown up there.

As for the rest of your post, youre absolutely right...Turkey, with its (vast) majority muslim population, does all those things. Which just enforces the fact that your original three points are a load of nonsense.
Not really, I explained you the rules of the islam and you gave Turkey as an example which didn't really add up as it is a secular country with no official religion. Anyways, don't want to discuss Turkey so much, as this voting is not for Turkey. Happy to discuss Turkey in another thread if you like.
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  #543  
Old 04.10.2017, 11:05
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

So why don't men wear burkas?
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  #544  
Old 04.10.2017, 11:10
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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So why don't men wear burkas?
They do...

Tales of derring-do:

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John Simpson and a cameraman were smuggled into the Nangarhar Province, near the border with Pakistan, by heavily armed smugglers.

On the advice of their escorts, the two men donned burqas - the traditional full-length garment compulsory for all women living in Taleban-controlled Afghanistan.
[...]
Mr Simpson, who has reported from many of the world's trouble spots over the past 20 years, said the disguises worked "superbly", despite both of them being more than six feet tall.

"Merely putting on the burqa, I found, has an extraordinary effect - it seems to make you disappear," he said.

"Behind their burqa, women have become an invisible sex in Afghanistan."
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  #545  
Old 04.10.2017, 11:12
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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oh dear, speak of confusion. what is being practiced and what is really required in koran are different things unfortunately. Take circumcision for example, the prophet Mohammed was not even circumcised but today they practice is that every muslim boy has to be. That is why I posted yesterday that burka and head scarfs has no place in Koran but it is being used as if they are must.

I do not consider anyone with a burka as non- orthodox muslim. Also, you say vast majority of the muslims in Europe are not orthodox but my experience is otherwise. Maybe they dont show their real feelings when there is a non-muslim around.

Not really, I explained you the rules of the islam and you gave Turkey as an example which didn't really add up as it is a secular country with no official religion. Anyways, don't want to discuss Turkey so much, as this voting is not for Turkey. Happy to discuss Turkey in another thread if you like.

More nonsense.
Circumcision is considered sunnah by the majority of muslims. That means it is not cumpulsory at all, but merely a good practice. Again, as you mentioned, it is not in the koran either, so there is some leeway for interpretation. Something being sunnah does not require that every muslim has to do it.


That fact that 'your experience' suggest most muslims are orthodox, confirms only the fact that you need to get out more. if more muslims were orthodox, there would be a damn sight more burkas on the streets, for one.


And, for the last time, nobody said turkey was a muslim country. I said most of its population was muslim, something which is a very clear fact.
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  #546  
Old 04.10.2017, 11:14
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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So why don't men wear burkas?


Good question.
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  #547  
Old 04.10.2017, 15:57
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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As for choice, why should choice be an issue? If choice was an issue we would be allowed to walk around naked.
Actually you are. Until a few people are offended and report you, but the same applies to every not-so-common behaviour.
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All of those bullet points are true. Covering the face hinders communication? Fact, and communications 101.
So you don't use a phone or any other non-visual form of communication? What are you doing on here if not communicating without seeing the other's face?
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  #548  
Old 04.10.2017, 16:00
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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So why don't men wear burkas?
Ask David Duke.
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  #549  
Old 10.10.2017, 17:03
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

LOL....
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  #550  
Old 10.10.2017, 17:26
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

At least one positive effect
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  #551  
Old 19.10.2017, 19:07
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

Good they want to ban it. If you come to Europe you assimilate to our culture! Not other way around.
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  #552  
Old 20.10.2017, 07:07
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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No women should have to!

Men don't so why should women? Because of religion or because men tell them to?
both
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  #553  
Old 23.09.2018, 14:12
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

Burka ban voted through in SG.

https://m.20min.ch/schweiz/news/stor...erbot-22499450
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  #554  
Old 23.09.2018, 16:17
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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How do they work that with the tourists visiting? Do they announce in the plane that if you are travelling to various areas you have to dress in a certain way out of respect for local customs and laws?

Oops, ironically it sounds a bit familiar...
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  #555  
Old 23.09.2018, 16:29
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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How do they work that with the tourists visiting?
Lots of countries have strict dress codes. Most people traveling for business or pleasure seem to work it out - before they get on the plane.
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  #556  
Old 23.09.2018, 16:31
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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Lots of countries have strict dress codes.
Precisely. Interesting how we strive to copy them, though.
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  #557  
Old 20.11.2018, 19:15
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Re: So what is it with the Burka?

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well in places like Saudi Arabia its the sight of naked skin that offends them.So what is it that the Burka offends. Not enough naked skin?
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