You had to swear aliegiance long before citizenship ceremonies were thought of. My OH had to in the 80s.

You've taken what I said to a ridiculous extreme, and added sexist overtones which are not from me.

And being a vegan does not require campaigning against eating meat etc. One is a simple personal choice the other a position often claimed as the moral high ground.

Having an opinion is fine. Voicing it is fine. Campaigning against the values of your community is also fine and sometimes necessary.

But that community also has the democratic right to not accept this where they believe it has gone too far.

You can't claim a voice and then complain when others use a direct democratic process to disagree!

So anarchist right out. Got it.
Now keep going. You will eventually get there.

Actually, yes, in Canada you DO have to swear allegiance to the Queen to obtain citizenship. The guy you're referring to renounced his oath of allegiance straight afterwards, saying he supported the oath and responsibilities of citizenship 100% except for the one point of allegiance to the Queen.

Incidentally, the requirement for wannabe citizens of Australia to swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen was dropped some time ago. So despite being behind Canada in flag design, Australia's ahead on republican issues.

My views on this are twofold:

1. Nancy knew her area required voters to approve her citizenship yet she decided to anger the neighbours with her outspoken views. Not very smart, Nancy.

However, as a poster mentioned before, if she appeals, the vote may be overturned since the council has approved her citizenship.

2. Switzerland needs to change their laws so that all candidates either meet citizenship requirements or not. A public vote on citizenship approval is subjective (as seen in Nancy's case) and therefore not fair.

Was this just done in private in the past?

It's not about Switzerland changing its laws. Citizenship here is at a grass roots level -- Swiss citizens have triple citizenship, with the "most important" level recognised as being that at the municipality/Gemeinde level. So what you want is a change of law at the municipality level. But why? What's wrong with the local citizens voting democratically whether to accept someone into their club? Of course it's a subjective vote. All voting is subjective, by its very nature -- it's an expression of opinion. Otherwise there'd be no need for voting in political elections; the person "objectively" best suited to office would simply be appointed.

You had to go and visit the Queen and swear at her. Her footmen and corgis would bear witness. That's what that guy in her bedroom all those years ago was trying to do.

And what if a requirement for citizenship is integration, with the approval of your fellow citizens being taken as a measure of that integration?

I think this is similar to the misunderstanding the CH/AG applicant had.

With the Queen there's probably also a bunch of guys standing around with swords as well, so it's more like Appenzell.

Apparently not in her bedroom, though, at least not in 1982.

I don't know much about Canadian law, but in Britain the monarch is so embedded in the law that you can't just strike out one sentence and pretend she's not there, legally speaking. There are so many references to judgements or proclamaitions being in her name or she granting the power or the right for whatever, or things being as they are because one of her ancestors arbitrarily decided or appointed something or other. If ever Britain were to become a republic there would have to be a wholesale re-writing of legal principles because so much would lose its justification.

For a person with limited understanding of such matters to unilaterally withdraw their allegiance can create a legal conundrum.

Well Phil is getting on a bit one supposes.

Maybe one should ask the cows what they think about these heavy bells around their neck. They reach decibel levels of up to 113db. Or maybe the UDC supporters on this forum can wear one for a week to show their allegiance to the great traditions. Ha.

http://www.geek.com/geek-cetera/it-t...rable-1605552/

Porkie pies?!? I had to go to a special Commissioner for Oaths and I can assure you the Commissioner, who looked and dressed like Captain Mannering was taking the whole thing VERY seriously- had I only smiled he would have called the cops. That ceremony was totally compulsory at the time, and I had to swear on the Bible. You were probably not born then! And there was no swapping of driving licence either- you had to do it al again.

I think citizenship is more than just a right. It is also an obligation. If one doesn't want to pull their weight in that obligation, fine. Just don't consider yourself a full fledged citizen.

In our village, the primary school children have been walking around the village ringing cow bells every morning before dawn.


So, yeah, innit?

Like the saying 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people' ... Bells aren't stupid, the people who ring the bells are stupid. ;-)



I have a hunch that if you asked the Swiss electorate today if they wanted to permanently end church bells ringing daily, even the (Swiss Swiss) ones who find them anachronistic and dumb would not want their country dropping traditions just yet nor would they appreciate an Auslander telling them what was best for their society. I may be wrong.

Anyhow one of the many reasons I love it here in Switzerland is because of its retention of tradition. I prefer it to the UK in the way that the brave new world takes off inexorably into modernity and progress and rubs out things like Cheese Rolling contests, knowing the name of your next door neighbour, etc etc.

I like the church bells ringing (although admittedly I don't live that close to a church) and when I do hear the bells in the evening, I think it sounds kind of romantic. I personally also appreciate other things here like keeping Sunday special for various beneficial reasons even though it can be irksome to me sometimes when a working week means shopping on Saturdays can be relatively quite busy.

There might be a few things I personally wouldn't mind changing here in Switzerland but I really do like it a lot here just the way it is, especially in contrast the crazy world we see on the international news every day at the moment.

Does not necessarily logically follow.

The Swiss put up with the same things foreigners do. Same peeves and same nuisances. When there are things that are intolerable, they do something else, like move away to another place or country. To the US, Asia, wherever.

But how is it that foreigners who don't like certain things here demand it changed to suit their personal tastes? Its somewhat thick skinned. I'm fine with the Swiss putting such foreigners in their place as part of their integration experience.