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  #481  
Old 03.02.2016, 10:28
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Many thanks for this analysis of this barbaric proposal.

Some sad examples of cases of mandatory deportation, for instance.

Friedrich a German employees at a bank failed to declare to the family compensation fund his son had a small break in his training.
This is a social fund abuse and he would have to leave Switzerland automatically.
That he lived for years in Switzerland, is married to a Swiss woman and his children are enrolled in school, all did not matter.
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  #482  
Old 03.02.2016, 10:29
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Untruths? No, no, those are valid perspectives, and you will see it reflected in the upcoming vote.




You're right. I rarely read them.
How can you convincingly claim my posts are boring if you rarely read them?
Phos logic in action
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  #483  
Old 03.02.2016, 10:37
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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A couple of other points from this article.

The SVP spokesman confirmed driving with over 0.8 blood alcohol will get you deported and SVP are still lying about deportation for minor offences.
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  #484  
Old 03.02.2016, 10:44
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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All these commentaries are from the perspective of the political establishment, exactly the ones under which this initiative lit a fire under. I could see why they would be against it. The question is whether voters will support the political establishment, or rebuke it. What we are seeing from the US to Europe are voters expressing dissatisfaction with the political establishment. There is a marked shift to the right, even here in Switzerland. This initiative may further demonstrate it. Why you don't see it televised may be a different reason altogether.
So the initiative is good because it fights 'de pawah'?

We're through the looking glass guys...

/me grabs popcorn.
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  #485  
Old 03.02.2016, 10:52
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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So the initiative is good because it fights 'de pawah'?

We're through the looking glass guys...

/me grabs popcorn.
Please remember that Phos clearly stated in post 475 here that he does not post facts, he simply posts personal opinions.

So when, for example, Phos writes "What we are seeing from the US to Europe are voters expressing dissatisfaction with the political establishment" then this is a personal opinion with no factual basis

He is entitled to his personal opinions but there is little point in us either discussing or challenging his "fancy notions"
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  #486  
Old 03.02.2016, 11:24
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Bature: this was not my quote. I was quoting someone else. If you read my posts you will see I am absolutely against this initiative and in no way support it.

Last edited by Starbug; 03.02.2016 at 11:25. Reason: Autocorrect mistake
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  #487  
Old 03.02.2016, 11:30
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Of course i know that, i was just re-quoting what you quoted.
Its really shocking how easily people forget HOW exactly judicial processes came about to be. Maybe some people need to read up on the dark ages and Mob justice...
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  #488  
Old 03.02.2016, 12:39
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Of course i know that, i was just re-quoting what you quoted.
Its really shocking how easily people forget HOW exactly judicial processes came about to be. Maybe some people need to read up on the dark ages and Mob justice...

I am weaving a new hempen rope
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  #489  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:04
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Please remember that Phos clearly stated in post 475 here that he does not post facts, he simply posts personal opinions.

So when, for example, Phos writes "What we are seeing from the US to Europe are voters expressing dissatisfaction with the political establishment" then this is a personal opinion with no factual basis

He is entitled to his personal opinions but there is little point in us either discussing or challenging his "fancy notions"

No, its actual fact that the number of crimes by foreigners need to be reigned in to bring its proportions down. I don't know of anyone who disagrees with this, and this initiative can certainly do that. To say this is anti-foreigner altogether is somewhat shortsighted. Bringing crime down is good for everybody, well except criminals.
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  #490  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:08
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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No, its actual fact that the number of crimes by foreigners need to be reigned in to bring its proportions down. I don't know of anyone who disagrees with this, and this initiative can certainly do that. To say this is anti-foreigner altogether is somewhat shortsighted. Bringing crime down is good for everybody, well except criminals.

"its actual fact that the number of crimes by foreigners need to be reigned in to bring its proportions down"


Dear Readers, please remember this is a Phos opinion not a fact.
Phos clearly stated in post 475 here that he does not post facts, he simply posts personal opinions.
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  #491  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:10
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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"its actual fact that the number of crimes by foreigners need to be reigned in to bring its proportions down"


Dear Readers, please remember this is a Phos opinion not a fact.
Phos clearly stated in post 475 here that he does not post facts, he simply posts personal opinions.

Dear Readers. Hopefully you still have a mind of your own and can think for yourselves.
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  #492  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:13
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

This initiative is DEFINITELY anti-foreigner because it calls for a striker and disproportionate handling of FOREIGNERS. In the situation of a yes to the DSI foreigners would be faced with deportation for Bagatelle crimes.
Not only that, but the courts and judges will completely be bypassed through-out the whole prosecution process. Trying to sell this DSI as a "Anti-Crime" Initiative is complete nonsense and in all truth, completely dishonest as well because that's not what it is. The DSI will uproot hardworking normal everyday people, who made small mistakes, probably on a bad day, from the lives and homes they know and from all the loved ones they have. It would turn Switzerland into a very terrible society to live in.
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  #493  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:20
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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No, its actual fact that the number of crimes by foreigners need to be reigned in to bring its proportions down.
If you cannot back this up with corroborating facts or evidence, then it is an opinion - an unsubstantiated hypothesis. You can claim that the World was created by a Great Spaghetti Monster in the sky too, but that too would be your opinion, not a fact. Pretty basic really. Empiricism 101.

You're welcome to present corroborating facts or evidence to support your position, btw.
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To say this is anti-foreigner altogether is somewhat shortsighted.
Only if it is true or what you're suggesting the optimum solution - there's a big difference between anti-social foreigners being a problem and the initiative being a good solution. You've not yet demonstrated either claim.

Otherwise it is simply a conclusion (most likely derived by Occam's Razor, as it is the most common explanation for unsupported xenophobic beliefs) as to what motivates you to believe in a hypothesis as fact, in lieu of any corroborating facts or evidence.
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Dear Readers. Hopefully you still have a mind of your own and can think for yourselves.
We have. Trust your word as fact or question it and see if you can back up your claims. The results are evident.
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  #494  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:22
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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This initiative is DEFINITELY anti-foreigner because it calls for a striker and disproportionate handling of FOREIGNERS. In the situation of a yes to the DSI foreigners would be faced with deportation for Bagatelle crimes.
Not only that, but the courts and judges will completely be bypassed through-out the whole prosecution process. Trying to sell this DSI as a "Anti-Crime" Initiative is complete nonsense and in all truth, completely dishonest as well because that's not what it is. The DSI will uproot hardworking normal everyday people, who made small mistakes, probably on a bad day, from the lives and homes they know and from all the loved ones they have. It would turn Switzerland into a very terrible society to live in.


That is what opponents would like to say. But I don't actually believe that. I believe it will be moderated just as the Ausschaffungsinitiative and MEI is being moderated today.

Switzerland is not a dictatorship of the sovereign population. There are safeguards with checks and balances.
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  #495  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:26
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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This initiative is DEFINITELY anti-foreigner because it calls for a striker and disproportionate handling of FOREIGNERS. In the situation of a yes to the DSI foreigners would be faced with deportation for Bagatelle crimes.
Not only that, but the courts and judges will completely be bypassed through-out the whole prosecution process. Trying to sell this DSI as a "Anti-Crime" Initiative is complete nonsense and in all truth, completely dishonest as well because that's not what it is. The DSI will uproot hardworking normal everyday people, who made small mistakes, probably on a bad day, from the lives and homes they know and from all the loved ones they have. It would turn Switzerland into a very terrible society to live in.

Very good reasoning, well written. Yes, all that is true.

But then again, perhaps, it is to get Switzerland back into how it used to be, before being swamped by foreigners? The days when everyone "did the right thing", when nosy neighbors kept an eye on their neighbors? The "it takes a village to bring up a child" mentality..... All the things we joke about (recycling correctly, etc etc ad nauseum.... etc).

Ten years ago, I laughed out loud seeing the headlines in newspaper - "Handbag stolen in Zurich!" Now criminals smash in display windows and haul out goods, club down pensioners, knife club-goers, murders occurring virtually every weekend.
Habitual criminals given the soft-shoe treatment and years of psychological counselling. Seeing tax monies being drained and fears of how to maintain pensions for the future. ??????????????

This just my comment, an idea of what`s behind the meaning/intent of this, not meant for criticism. Am just as confused about the why, and how it is to be implemented, if ever.
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  #496  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:28
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

It seems that YOU haven't taken the time to read the DSI at all. The DSI is very clear on what it wants, the DSI in itself is an initiative that is to be translated into law WITHOUT ANY MODERATION. Any moderation at all would definitely lead up to a new initiative to EMPOWER THIS EMPOWERMENT. Or what exactly was the first Ausschaffungsinitaitive about? Before it was moderated? No, if this DSI comes to pass, it WILL NOT be moderated. It will be passed into law AS IT IS. This law will bypass the swiss judiciary and go against numerous EU Human Rights Laws. This will in turn, inadvertently cause friction between Switzerland and the EU, after which the SVP will call upon the people to vote upon i.e. against European Human Rights laws.
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  #497  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:31
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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It seems that YOU haven't taken the time to read the DSI at all. The DSI is very clear on what it wants, the DSI in itself is an initiative that is to be translated into law WITHOUT ANY MODERATION. Any moderation at all would definitely lead up to a new initiative to EMPOWER THIS EMPOWERMENT. Or what exactly was the first Ausschaffungsinitaitive about? Before it was moderated? No, if this DSI comes to pass, it WILL NOT be moderated. It will be passed into law AS IT IS. This law will bypass the swiss judiciary and go against numerous EU Human Rights Laws. This will in turn, inadvertently cause friction between Switzerland and the EU, after which the SVP will call upon the people to vote upon i.e. against European Human Rights laws.
Has that happened with MEI and the Auschaffungsinitiative, which have both passed? No, it has not.
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  #498  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:32
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Ten years ago, I laughed out loud seeing the headlines in newspaper - "Handbag stolen in Zurich!" Now criminals smash in display windows and haul out goods, club down pensioners, knife club-goers, murders occurring virtually every weekend.
Habitual criminals given the soft-shoe treatment and years of psychological counselling. Seeing tax monies being drained and fears of how to maintain pensions for the future. ??????????????
Completely agree. I support the deportation of habitual anti-social elements.

But opposing this initiative does not automatically mean I cannot support the principle of deportation of habitual anti-social elements.
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  #499  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:33
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Has that happened with MEI and the Auschaffungsinitiative, which have both passed? No, it has not.

The MEI? Do you know more than I all others do?
Do you know why exactly the SVP started the DSI?
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  #500  
Old 03.02.2016, 13:35
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Very good reasoning, well written. Yes, all that is true.

But then again, perhaps, it is to get Switzerland back into how it used to be, before being swamped by foreigners? The days when everyone "did the right thing", when nosy neighbors kept an eye on their neighbors? The "it takes a village to bring up a child" mentality..... All the things we joke about (recycling correctly, etc etc ad nauseum.... etc).

Ten years ago, I laughed out loud seeing the headlines in newspaper - "Handbag stolen in Zurich!" Now criminals smash in display windows and haul out goods, club down pensioners, knife club-goers, murders occurring virtually every weekend.
Habitual criminals given the soft-shoe treatment and years of psychological counselling. Seeing tax monies being drained and fears of how to maintain pensions for the future. ??????????????

This just my comment, an idea of what`s behind the meaning/intent of this, not meant for criticism. Am just as confused about the why, and how it is to be implemented, if ever.
Funny though, the last time i checked the level of crime in Switzerland was on the decline. I honestly don't know where you live, but its obvious that its not in Switzerland.
If you gripe is with the cost of criminality in Switzerland, then you too must and have to be against the DSI. The DSI will not reduce criminal justice spending, BUT increase it dramatically.
If you have problems with "habitual criminals" then you must and have to be against the DSI. The Ausschaffungsinitiative ALREADY takes care of habitual criminals, the DSI makes anyone who commits bagatelle crimes in the span of 10 years INTO A HABITUAL CRIMINAL.
You want to go back to a time before Switzerland became "swamped by foreigners"? Well, why don't you come out and say that? Why not just come clean and say "All foreigners should be kicked out of Switzerland"?? Why try to hide you real intentions behind untruths and inaccurate facts?
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