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  #1001  
Old 29.02.2016, 16:01
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Why?

Seems to me they played it perfectly. If they'd gone straight away for the "strict" version of the rule, they'd have likely lost. Trying it in two steps mean that they got most of what they wanted, but not all, and by opening discussion on the more outlandish rule makes the incoming law a little more acceptable to a lot of people.

I really don't like SVP and their policies, but you have to admire the way they get things done.
But the hardship clause remains which the SVP never wanted
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  #1002  
Old 29.02.2016, 16:10
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Can you point to where a serious criminal offence was defined in the initiative?
Art. 197 Ziff. 9 Abs. 1 Ziff. 1 Bstb. a.
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  #1003  
Old 29.02.2016, 16:28
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Perhaps due to longer lunch breaks in Ticino the residents were able to actually read the details of the vote - realized it wasn't Nazism in disguise and felt that a change to the constitution so that foreign nationals CONVICTED of a SERIOUS criminal offence would be deported after their sentence was a good thing.



Or just fed up with all the criminal Italians http://www4.ti.ch/fileadmin/DI/POLIZ...inale_2014.pdf
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  #1004  
Old 29.02.2016, 16:34
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Perhaps due to longer lunch breaks in Ticino the residents were able to actually read the details of the vote - realized it wasn't Nazism in disguise and felt that a change to the constitution so that foreign nationals CONVICTED of a SERIOUS criminal offence would be deported after their sentence was a good thing.

Perhaps those in Vaud were more easily influenced by the lefts campaign to label anything right of centre as the "rise of Nazism in Switzerland".

This wasn't Nazism in disguise? Really? So I guess putting white sheep against black sheep gave you a warm, fuzzy feeling? If you don't like the term Nazi, then how about, racist? Or perhaps, bigoted?
The campaign against the initiative wasn't fueled only by the leftists. There as a very broad spectrum of society that took part in it and a lot of them did not have clear left lines. Many were conservatives and certainly weren't running around with their fists in the air screaming "Marx rules!" I followed the social media campaigns very closely and most of them had nothing to do with the leftist in the pure sense. A lot was people who took the time to read the initiative and came to the conclusion that a line had to be drawn somewhere and that line was here.
So let the SVP cry in their soup. They got kicked where it hurts, they got kicked by the very people they were counting on to support them. How horrified the SVP must have been when they discovered that this time they were unable to terrify people into submission and people voted with their thinking caps on and not somewhere around their eyes. I admire the social media movement. The SVP didn't stand a chance in that arena and I hope the momentum continues.
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  #1005  
Old 29.02.2016, 16:37
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Can you point to where a serious criminal offence was defined in the initiative?
Exactly, and one of the many reasons it failed.

And as said, in Vaud, the PLR, eg the professionals and business people- were even more active in combatting this initiative than the left- it was NOT about left/right - au contraire.

For me, at the end of the day, the best thing about this campaign is that it finally persuaded YOUNG people they had to get involved and had to vote. The biggest % of young voters for a very very long time- and that, as Elizabeth said 'is marvellous in our eyes'. Young people took to the internet, made the campaign more punchy and fun- and they did get involved big time, and re'took politics from the old crogs like me. Wonderful.
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  #1006  
Old 29.02.2016, 16:40
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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So let the SVP cry in their soup.
I'm sure they're not crying into anything. Sure, they'd have liked to have the initiative pass, but they've done their job. They'll have gained some more supporters along the way. You know what they say about sprints and marathons...

But still; it's nice that you're happy.
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  #1007  
Old 29.02.2016, 16:43
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

I am happy, thank you.
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  #1008  
Old 29.02.2016, 16:51
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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I'm sure they're not crying into anything. Sure, they'd have liked to have the initiative pass, but they've done their job. They'll have gained some more supporters along the way. You know what they say about sprints and marathons...

But still; it's nice that you're happy.
absolutely.

They went for the most extreme version possible and still polled significantly better they did at the last elections, when they were supposed to have got lucky and polled more than they actually had support. So this firmly puts to bed the adage that anybody who doesn't vote SVP is anti SVP.

Furthermore they can tell their oponents in the face that had they been slightly less extreme they would have won.

The opposition on the other hand have put a gargantuan effort into denying a victory that the SVP didn't really need anyway.

But in some twisted minds I guess this is the end of the SVP. Well, until the next tour de force anyway.
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  #1009  
Old 29.02.2016, 16:53
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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the professionals and business people- were even more active in combatting this initiative than the left- it was NOT about left/right - au contraire.
Now who do those words remind me of?
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  #1010  
Old 29.02.2016, 16:57
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

No idea- you tell me.

I am very proud of the PLR's rôle in the defeat.
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  #1011  
Old 29.02.2016, 17:09
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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This wasn't Nazism in disguise? Really? So I guess putting white sheep against black sheep gave you a warm, fuzzy feeling? If you don't like the term Nazi, then how about, racist? Or perhaps, bigoted?
Did you happen to catch this news story ahead of the vote?
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  #1012  
Old 29.02.2016, 17:09
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Art. 197 Ziff. 9 Abs. 1 Ziff. 1 Bstb. a.
Document please.
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Or just fed up with all the criminal Italians http://www4.ti.ch/fileadmin/DI/POLIZ...inale_2014.pdf
According to that document:
"Per l’insieme delle leggi, le nazionalità più ricorrenti, dopo quella svizzera (43.1%), sono: italiana (24.1%), rumena (3.6%), portoghese (2.7%), serba (2.0%), marocchina (1.6%), tunisina (1.4%), kosovara (1.4%), albanese (1.3%), brasiliana (1.1%), nigeriana (1.1%), dominicana (1.1%) e croata (1.1%)."
This does appear to the Swiss being the single biggest offending group, rather than the Italians.
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  #1013  
Old 29.02.2016, 17:14
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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For me, at the end of the day, the best thing about this campaign is that it finally persuaded YOUNG people they had to get involved and had to vote.
Which is another reason why Ticino was heavily YES.

Tom
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  #1014  
Old 29.02.2016, 17:20
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

@Aenes - so 74.8% of the population commit 43% of the crime in Ticino.
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  #1015  
Old 29.02.2016, 17:30
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

According to the results, maybe the black sheeps are Unterwald, Uri, Schwyz, Ticino and Appenzell Innerrhoden...
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  #1016  
Old 29.02.2016, 17:32
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Around here, the wolf eats the sheep.

Anyway, the UDC will simply point out the fact that the vote got 41% yes, which means that people other than UDC supporters voted in favor, so in reality the UDC won!

And, of course, the already passed deportation initiative will now be put into force!

Tom


I don't think a Ticino wolf could eat sheep...they are all wearing designer sunglasses, thus preventing them from spotting any sheep, and they are far too busy enjoying a good, sunny life to care about anything else! Correct?
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  #1017  
Old 29.02.2016, 17:36
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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I don't think a Ticino wolf could eat sheep...
Don't bet on it:

"Pecore uccise, è stato il lupo"

"Killed sheep, it was the wolf"

http://www.tio.ch/News/Ticino/Cronac...stato-il-lupo/

Tom
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Old 29.02.2016, 17:44
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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According to the results, maybe the black sheeps are Unterwald, Uri, Schwyz, Ticino and Appenzell Innerrhoden...


Tom
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  #1019  
Old 29.02.2016, 17:45
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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@Aenes - so 74.8% of the population commit 43% of the crime in Ticino.
Which is the single largest group generating crime. The point being that Italians in Ticino are not as likely to commit crime as other ethnic groups in other parts of Switzerland.

It's really not about crime, but about an erosion of the way of life there, due to wage dumping via border workers, which naturally then turns to resentment and xenophobia, even though - ironically - those doing most of the wage dumping are actually the Ticinesi who employ them.
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Old 29.02.2016, 17:51
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Italians in Ticino are not as likely to commit crime as other ethnic groups in other parts of Switzerland.
And most of the Italians who do commit crimes in Ticino, live in Italy.

Tom
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