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  #121  
Old 20.01.2016, 17:11
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Secondos did not choose to be born here. They are part of this society, for better or worse.
The choice they have is about naturalization, which for them should be little more than a formality in terms of effort. The rest follows.
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  #122  
Old 20.01.2016, 17:51
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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You mean when you don't get the answer you want? Ha!

No, I mean when I (and others) receive some random insults instead of an answer.


Answers are OK, insults not
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  #123  
Old 20.01.2016, 17:57
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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There are certain human rights that can't be overridden by a referendum. Even if it said something ambiguous, I don't believe they can deport someone somewhere if it meant a certain death or cruel and unusual circumstances. Not to say they shouldn't look into it and try.

About "certain human rights that can't be overridden by a referendum", not really. To implement the initiative fully Switzerland should withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights; which is probably the SVP's real objective
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  #124  
Old 20.01.2016, 18:02
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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About "certain human rights that can't be overridden by a referendum", not really. To implement the initiative fully Switzerland should withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights; which is probably the SVP's real objective
I don't really see this as a pro-SVP issue as you folks seem to. I'd be fine with the SVP not getting everything they want. They are just one of many political parties. I'm not obsessed with them at all the way you folks seem to be. Nobody gets everything they want all the time in a democracy.


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No, I mean when I (and others) receive some random insults instead of an answer.


Answers are OK, insults not
You ought to see the kinds of stupid responses I get when some people's perspectives are challenged beyond what they can handle. Sometimes its too funny to resist.
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  #125  
Old 20.01.2016, 19:38
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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I don't really see this as a pro-SVP issue as you folks seem to. I'd be fine with the SVP not getting everything they want. They are just one of many political parties. I'm not obsessed with them at all the way you folks seem to be. Nobody gets everything they want all the time in a democracy.




You ought to see the kinds of stupid responses I get when some people's perspectives are challenged beyond what they can handle. Sometimes its too funny to resist.


About "I don't really see this as a pro-SVP issue as you folks seem to.".


I would like to remind you title of this thread is "Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative";
this is an SVP initiative so of course we talk about this in context in terms of pro- and anti- SVP.


As stated earlier in this thread "You really do not have a clue do you?"
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  #126  
Old 20.01.2016, 19:56
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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About "I don't really see this as a pro-SVP issue as you folks seem to.".


I would like to remind you title of this thread is "Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative";
this is an SVP initiative so of course we talk about this in context in terms of pro- and anti- SVP.


As stated earlier in this thread "You really do not have a clue do you?"

It's about the initiative, you're fixated on the SVP.

So if its a case of Pro vs. Anti SVP, I don't care. As for the referendum, definitely Pro. Is that a problem for you?
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  #127  
Old 20.01.2016, 20:05
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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It's about the initiative, you're fixated on the SVP.

So if its a case of Pro vs. Anti SVP, I don't care. As for the referendum, definitely Pro. Is that a problem for you?




Its about an SVP initiative!; not the initiative!


I am not fixated on the SVP, what you are on I have no clue.
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  #128  
Old 20.01.2016, 20:11
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Ah well- then you just have to convert to Islam according to Sbrinz

Checked the list of crimes, nicking a loaf of bread at'Coop- is not on it.
Because COOP bread is crap and that saves them tossing it out at the end of the day
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  #129  
Old 20.01.2016, 20:22
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Its about an SVP initiative!; not the initiative!

I am not fixated on the SVP, what you are on I have no clue.
Finally, you admit it.
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  #130  
Old 20.01.2016, 22:33
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

another useless SVP initiative, there is a system in place for this already and this initiative will not change anything

The reasons why there are proportionally more foreigners in Swiss prisons...

1. For some crimes Swiss does not need to stay in investigated custody where a foreigner might due to that he could escape back to his home country (or somewhere else)

2. A big part are "criminal tourists" which will not get an electronic tag as many Swiss gets for similar offenses hence they have to stay in prison

3. Many foreigners have been living here for a long time (many even born here) without naturalize themselves, 25% living here are foreigners


For no.2 there is a system, the problem is today that many countries does not accept these individuals and many does not have any papers at all, this initiative will not fix this

as per the BFS, ca 75% are foreigners, and they say that half are people without permit/not residents of Switzerland, e.g. criminal tourists etc.

so that leaves 37.5% foreigners vs 25% Swiss, this can be explained by no.1

so in the end foreigners living in Switzerland are as criminal as the Swiss...

but it is always amusing to see how SVP simplify the statistics without explaining the meaning behind , but not so amusing for the foreigners living here since ages being stamped as criminal pigs...if you repeat a lie over and over it becomes true and SVP knows this....

http://bazonline.ch/schweiz/standard...story/16026040
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  #131  
Old 20.01.2016, 22:58
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Red-card for SVP. I will vote NO.
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  #132  
Old 20.01.2016, 23:27
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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another useless SVP initiative, there is a system in place for this already and this initiative will not change anything

The reasons why there are proportionally more foreigners in Swiss prisons...

1. For some crimes Swiss does not need to stay in investigated custody where a foreigner might due to that he could escape back to his home country (or somewhere else)

2. A big part are "criminal tourists" which will not get an electronic tag as many Swiss gets for similar offenses hence they have to stay in prison

3. Many foreigners have been living here for a long time (many even born here) without naturalize themselves, 25% living here are foreigners


For no.2 there is a system, the problem is today that many countries does not accept these individuals and many does not have any papers at all, this initiative will not fix this

as per the BFS, ca 75% are foreigners, and they say that half are people without permit/not residents of Switzerland, e.g. criminal tourists etc.

so that leaves 37.5% foreigners vs 25% Swiss, this can be explained by no.1

so in the end foreigners living in Switzerland are as criminal as the Swiss...

but it is always amusing to see how SVP simplify the statistics without explaining the meaning behind , but not so amusing for the foreigners living here since ages being stamped as criminal pigs...if you repeat a lie over and over it becomes true and SVP knows this....

http://bazonline.ch/schweiz/standard...story/16026040


About "as per the BFS, ca 75% are foreigners, and they say that half are people without permit/not residents of Switzerland, e.g. criminal tourists etc." People who are here without permission will be deported anyway assuming;
a. The authorities can identify which country they come from.
b. They have the correct documents for their home country e.g. passport
c. Their home country is willing to accept them.


Otherwise they will add to the 4,800 who have served their prison sentences and are still sitting in prison because they are not "deportable" for one reason or another.
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  #133  
Old 21.01.2016, 00:10
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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This can be clearly seen from the stats, the SVP "show us" in the "flyer".
Wouldn't surprise me if someone get tired of the foreigners criminals...
I am reading and copying all this from the initiative "flyer".

Share of foreigners convicted of murder: 57,7%
Share of foreigners convicted of rape: 61.3%
Share of foreigners convicted of burglary: 73.0%

Consequences:
Share of foreigners in the swiss prisons: 73.0%
Something in that doesn't add up.

How much of these numbers are owing to the fact that the police take crimes by "foreigners" against swiss citizens more seriously?

And if the prisons are 73% foreign, are these convicted people or people being held without bail because they're foreigners?
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  #134  
Old 21.01.2016, 01:11
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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Something in that doesn't add up.

How much of these numbers are owing to the fact that the police take crimes by "foreigners" against swiss citizens more seriously?

And if the prisons are 73% foreign, are these convicted people or people being held without bail because they're foreigners?
For 2013 data from BFS:
- 25% of prisoners are swiss
- 44% are foreigners with no residence permit in CH
- 31% are foreigners with residence permit or asylum status
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  #135  
Old 21.01.2016, 12:30
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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For 2013 data from BFS:
- 25% of prisoners are swiss
- 44% are foreigners with no residence permit in CH
- 31% are foreigners with residence permit or asylum status
Are these convicted prisoners or a combination of criminals and those awaiting a hearing?
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  #136  
Old 21.01.2016, 12:57
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

The Swiss police or justice treats the Swiss and the foreigners exactky the same way. They are very fair and never biased. I am a foreigner myself and I have never been discriminated by the authorities. In fact the only people who think the police or justice discriminates them are the criminals wether Swiss or foreigners. It's a fact that most crimes are commited by foreigners and refugees. A lot of these people should be sent back to their native country.
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  #137  
Old 21.01.2016, 13:24
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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The Swiss police or justice treats the Swiss and the foreigners exactky the same way. They are very fair and never biased. I am a foreigner myself and I have never been discriminated by the authorities. In fact the only people who think the police or justice discriminates them are the criminals wether Swiss or foreigners. It's a fact that most crimes are commited by foreigners and refugees. A lot of these people should be sent back to their native country.
I don't believe that 100%. I do believe they profile people, but this is normal everywhere else in the world. They may not do it racially and institutionally, but they do use their own perception. They're only human.

I hear of profiling of African people. I hear they are more likely to stop a vehicle with a higher license plate number than a lower one, indicating how "established" that person is in Switzerland. I hear from some Football club fans they are profiled as soccer hooligans.

They're only human. But all in all, it is relatively harmless for innocent people. When you ever come across one, just respect their position and respect the law, and not much comes out of it, maybe even a friendly conversation with a meet and greet. I don't mind conversing with cops when I haven't done anything wrong.
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  #138  
Old 21.01.2016, 16:20
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

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I don't believe that 100%. I do believe they profile people, but this is normal everywhere else in the world. They may not do it racially and institutionally, but they do use their own perception. They're only human.

I hear of profiling of African people. I hear they are more likely to stop a vehicle with a higher license plate number than a lower one, indicating how "established" that person is in Switzerland. I hear from some Football club fans they are profiled as soccer hooligans.

They're only human. But all in all, it is relatively harmless for innocent people. When you ever come across one, just respect their position and respect the law, and not much comes out of it, maybe even a friendly conversation with a meet and greet. I don't mind conversing with cops when I haven't done anything wrong.
Ahhh, if I had only known this earlier ...
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  #139  
Old 21.01.2016, 16:43
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Yeah, true, I'm bigoted against people who do things that make other people look bad.

Keep calm and let law enforcement its their job!
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  #140  
Old 21.01.2016, 16:47
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Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Law inforcement normally include Judges who assess the situation- the UDC wants to stop Judges from doing so to ensure it is done fairly.

Last edited by Odile; 21.01.2016 at 18:42.
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