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-   -   Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/246728-feb-28th-vote-enforced-implementation-deportation-initiative.html)

yacek 12.01.2016 08:28

Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Looks like the new law has good chances to pass in the vote on Feb. 28th. According to a recent poll 61% supports it:
http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/16150448

The new law consequences look very harsh and often disproportional. It is not just a multi-year convictions that would result in expulsion, but also little delinquency might get one deported.

http://www.letemps.ch/suisse/2016/01...0-etrangers-an

Sbrinz 12.01.2016 09:12

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
This is the bad side of democracy. Any rabble rouser can entice the population to vote on an emotional subject, and there are just as many Swiss citizen criminals that cannot be deported, and so the result will be that Swiss justice is no longer seen to be fair in Switzerland.

A second problem that presents itself is that deportation is only permitted when the criminal's home country is stable, and he will not be discriminated in his home country, e.g. if he is an Islamic homosexual he will be allowed to stay here.

yacek 12.01.2016 09:52

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
There might be a spike in naturalization requests. However for the working poor who have sometimes tapped into social help it may be unattainable.

ipoddle 12.01.2016 12:35

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Eh ?

Admittedly all I have to go on is the google translation of the article in French but... if anyone living in CH who does not have CH passport is prosecuted for even a minor infringement.. they're deported 'automatically' .. i.e. a judge/court cant use 'common sense' ???

Where's the list of infringements ?

Do I get sent home if I caught speeding ?
What about (purely theoretical) being a few mg over the limit ?
What if (purely theoretical) my 18 yr old son, with no prior 'convictions', gets into a fight defending himself against a local and the police take the view they're both culpable ... (and nobody and nothing else got hurt) ?

Captain Greybeard 12.01.2016 12:58

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ipoddle (Post 2515992)
Do I get sent home if I caught speeding ?

No, of course not. But you better pay your Billag invoice.

adrianlondon 12.01.2016 13:00

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Does it say how long you get sent back for? I could nick something from Coop on Friday and take the free flight back to London, coming back Sunday.

Urs Max 12.01.2016 13:07

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ipoddle (Post 2515992)
Eh ?

Admittedly all I have to go on is the google translation of the article in French but... if anyone living in CH who does not have CH passport is prosecuted for even a minor infringement.. they're deported 'automatically' .. i.e. a judge/court cant use 'common sense' ???

Where's the list of infringements ?

Do I get sent home if I caught speeding ?
What about (purely theoretical) being a few mg over the limit ?
What if (purely theoretical) my 18 yr old son, with no prior 'convictions', gets into a fight defending himself against a local and the police take the view they're both culpable ... (and nobody and nothing else got hurt) ?

Though it depends on the traffic zone, speeding is much more above the limit than 5 or 10km/h too fast.

If the referendume is accepted it will take considerable time (years, typically) to get all the fine print in place. If that happesn the details will be in the news.

Guest 12.01.2016 13:10

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianlondon (Post 2516003)
Does it say how long you get sent back for? I could nick something from Coop on Friday and take the free flight back to London, coming back Sunday.

Are you an illegal immigrant though ;)?

adrianlondon 12.01.2016 13:13

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Are you an illegal immigrant though ;)?
The proposal, as far as I understand it, covers all foreigners.

aSwissInTheUS 12.01.2016 13:17

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yacek (Post 2515823)
Looks like the new law has good chances to pass in the vote on Feb. 28th. According to a recent poll 61% supports it:
http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/16150448

It is not a new law, yet. It is an amendement to the constituion. Still some way to go through both champers of the parlament and a possible veto by the people until it is a law on which the judges have to act.

Here the text of the initiative:
https://www.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/vi/vis433t.html

Notable absences are:
Tax and duty fraud, tax evasion, fraud (expect it involes social insurance), traffic infractions (unless it involves man slaughter).

It has two lists of infraction that lead to an automatic deportation.
The first one is one strike and you are out.
The second applies is if you had any previous monetary penaltys (daily fine, not simple monetary fine) or prison sentence.

Here the the Swiss laws mentioned in the initiative you can use it look up the all numbers mentioned.

Swiss Criminal Code
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...083/index.html

Narcotics Act
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...989/index.html

Foreign Nationals Act
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...232/index.html

Guest 12.01.2016 13:28

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianlondon (Post 2516016)
The proposal, as far as I understand it, covers all foreigners.

Ah well- then you just have to convert to Islam according to Sbrinz :p

Checked the list of crimes, nicking a loaf of bread at'Coop- is not on it.

Treverus 12.01.2016 13:35

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ipoddle (Post 2515992)
Eh ?

Admittedly all I have to go on is the google translation of the article in French but... if anyone living in CH who does not have CH passport is prosecuted for even a minor infringement.. they're deported 'automatically' .. i.e. a judge/court cant use 'common sense' ???

That's the core of it: I listened to some interview with a former judge of the highest Swiss court. He believes that this exact bit is unconstitutional.

aSwissInTheUS 12.01.2016 13:41

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
After the pure informative post above, here my commentary about this thing. (Feel free to grown on this one if you do not agree with my view)

It is bolloks. Too detailed, rigid, disappropriate, unfair, and ommits certain crimes (see above) which shades a certain light on the proposing party (SVP/UDC).

Why not just simply say that any felony (minimum prison sentence of three years https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a10) leads to deportation?

Why not have a system where it depends on previous sentences?
Two prisson sentences in the last ten years and you are out.
Two monetary and one prison sentence in the last ten years and you are out.
Three monetary sentences (a monetary sentences can be up to 360 day fines https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a34) or three misdeamors respectively in the last ten years and you are out.

aSwissInTheUS 12.01.2016 13:43

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Ah well- then you just have to convert to Islam according to Sbrinz :p

Checked the list of crimes, nicking a loaf of bread at'Coop- is not on it.
It maybe is. If it involves trespassing, and you had at least one previous monetary sentence (maybe because you where involved in a stupid traffic accident) then it is.

Guest 12.01.2016 13:52

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Isn't this a followup guideline to the Ausschaffungsinitiative, given that the courts continually fails to apply it?

Guest 12.01.2016 13:56

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 2516054)
It maybe is. If it involves trespassing, and you had at least one previous monetary sentence (maybe because you where involved in a stupid traffic accident) then it is.

Not sure Adrian meant he was going to blow the door up and maim or kill any member of staff here- or nick a loaf of bread from the shelf. Could you be a bit more precise Adrian;)

aSwissInTheUS 12.01.2016 13:56

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2516070)
Isn't this a followup guideline to the Ausschaffungsinitiative, given that the courts continually fails to apply it?

The first part is true. The second not. The Ausschafungsinitiative is not even law yet.

aSwissInTheUS 12.01.2016 14:01

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Quote:

Not sure Adrian meant he was going to blow the door up and maim or kill any member of staff here- or nick a loaf of bread from the shelf. Could you be a bit more precise Adrian;)
There may be allready be a store or pub where Adrian has Hausverbot/ interdiction d'entrer/order to stay away. Makes things simpler.

yacek 12.01.2016 19:26

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
I've heard the SVP has told the public that Ausschafungsinitiative wasn't implemented faithfully enough by the parliament and therefore they literally put what they meant in the initiative text now so that there is no room for the parliament to "misinterpret" it.

marton 12.01.2016 19:45

Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative
 
Weakness of the whole idea is that there is no way to force another country to accept deportees; one could understand their reluctance to accept convicted criminals.
Reluctance would be for exactly the same reasons that they would not be wanted to stay here?


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