Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12.01.2016, 08:28
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,144
Groaned at 86 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 1,190 Times in 693 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Looks like the new law has good chances to pass in the vote on Feb. 28th. According to a recent poll 61% supports it:
http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/16150448

The new law consequences look very harsh and often disproportional. It is not just a multi-year convictions that would result in expulsion, but also little delinquency might get one deported.

http://www.letemps.ch/suisse/2016/01...0-etrangers-an
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12.01.2016, 09:12
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,925
Groaned at 590 Times in 377 Posts
Thanked 11,546 Times in 5,940 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

This is the bad side of democracy. Any rabble rouser can entice the population to vote on an emotional subject, and there are just as many Swiss citizen criminals that cannot be deported, and so the result will be that Swiss justice is no longer seen to be fair in Switzerland.

A second problem that presents itself is that deportation is only permitted when the criminal's home country is stable, and he will not be discriminated in his home country, e.g. if he is an Islamic homosexual he will be allowed to stay here.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 12.01.2016, 09:52
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,144
Groaned at 86 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 1,190 Times in 693 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

There might be a spike in naturalization requests. However for the working poor who have sometimes tapped into social help it may be unattainable.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12.01.2016, 12:35
ipoddle's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: basel
Posts: 855
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 772 Times in 330 Posts
ipoddle has earned the respect of manyipoddle has earned the respect of manyipoddle has earned the respect of many
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Eh ?

Admittedly all I have to go on is the google translation of the article in French but... if anyone living in CH who does not have CH passport is prosecuted for even a minor infringement.. they're deported 'automatically' .. i.e. a judge/court cant use 'common sense' ???

Where's the list of infringements ?

Do I get sent home if I caught speeding ?
What about (purely theoretical) being a few mg over the limit ?
What if (purely theoretical) my 18 yr old son, with no prior 'convictions', gets into a fight defending himself against a local and the police take the view they're both culpable ... (and nobody and nothing else got hurt) ?
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank ipoddle for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 12.01.2016, 12:58
Captain Greybeard's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sarganserland / NW Lower Peninsula of NE US Midwest
Posts: 3,464
Groaned at 43 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 7,236 Times in 2,263 Posts
Captain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
Do I get sent home if I caught speeding ?
No, of course not. But you better pay your Billag invoice.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Captain Greybeard for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:00
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,200
Groaned at 193 Times in 176 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Does it say how long you get sent back for? I could nick something from Coop on Friday and take the free flight back to London, coming back Sunday.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 5,750
Groaned at 183 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 7,246 Times in 3,749 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
Eh ?

Admittedly all I have to go on is the google translation of the article in French but... if anyone living in CH who does not have CH passport is prosecuted for even a minor infringement.. they're deported 'automatically' .. i.e. a judge/court cant use 'common sense' ???

Where's the list of infringements ?

Do I get sent home if I caught speeding ?
What about (purely theoretical) being a few mg over the limit ?
What if (purely theoretical) my 18 yr old son, with no prior 'convictions', gets into a fight defending himself against a local and the police take the view they're both culpable ... (and nobody and nothing else got hurt) ?
Though it depends on the traffic zone, speeding is much more above the limit than 5 or 10km/h too fast.

If the referendume is accepted it will take considerable time (years, typically) to get all the fine print in place. If that happesn the details will be in the news.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,367
Groaned at 454 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 24,329 Times in 11,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
Does it say how long you get sent back for? I could nick something from Coop on Friday and take the free flight back to London, coming back Sunday.
Are you an illegal immigrant though ?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:13
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,200
Groaned at 193 Times in 176 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
Are you an illegal immigrant though ?
The proposal, as far as I understand it, covers all foreigners.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:17
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 8,610
Groaned at 70 Times in 62 Posts
Thanked 12,557 Times in 5,664 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
Looks like the new law has good chances to pass in the vote on Feb. 28th. According to a recent poll 61% supports it:
http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/16150448
It is not a new law, yet. It is an amendement to the constituion. Still some way to go through both champers of the parlament and a possible veto by the people until it is a law on which the judges have to act.

Here the text of the initiative:
https://www.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/vi/vis433t.html

Notable absences are:
Tax and duty fraud, tax evasion, fraud (expect it involes social insurance), traffic infractions (unless it involves man slaughter).

It has two lists of infraction that lead to an automatic deportation.
The first one is one strike and you are out.
The second applies is if you had any previous monetary penaltys (daily fine, not simple monetary fine) or prison sentence.

Here the the Swiss laws mentioned in the initiative you can use it look up the all numbers mentioned.

Swiss Criminal Code
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...083/index.html

Narcotics Act
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...989/index.html

Foreign Nationals Act
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...232/index.html
__________________
PLAYER 1 ENTER YOUR NAME:_
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,367
Groaned at 454 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 24,329 Times in 11,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
The proposal, as far as I understand it, covers all foreigners.
Ah well- then you just have to convert to Islam according to Sbrinz

Checked the list of crimes, nicking a loaf of bread at'Coop- is not on it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:35
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 10,714
Groaned at 262 Times in 221 Posts
Thanked 19,612 Times in 7,160 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
Eh ?

Admittedly all I have to go on is the google translation of the article in French but... if anyone living in CH who does not have CH passport is prosecuted for even a minor infringement.. they're deported 'automatically' .. i.e. a judge/court cant use 'common sense' ???
That's the core of it: I listened to some interview with a former judge of the highest Swiss court. He believes that this exact bit is unconstitutional.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:41
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 8,610
Groaned at 70 Times in 62 Posts
Thanked 12,557 Times in 5,664 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

After the pure informative post above, here my commentary about this thing. (Feel free to grown on this one if you do not agree with my view)

It is bolloks. Too detailed, rigid, disappropriate, unfair, and ommits certain crimes (see above) which shades a certain light on the proposing party (SVP/UDC).

Why not just simply say that any felony (minimum prison sentence of three years https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a10) leads to deportation?

Why not have a system where it depends on previous sentences?
Two prisson sentences in the last ten years and you are out.
Two monetary and one prison sentence in the last ten years and you are out.
Three monetary sentences (a monetary sentences can be up to 360 day fines https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a34) or three misdeamors respectively in the last ten years and you are out.
__________________
PLAYER 1 ENTER YOUR NAME:_
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:43
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 8,610
Groaned at 70 Times in 62 Posts
Thanked 12,557 Times in 5,664 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
Ah well- then you just have to convert to Islam according to Sbrinz

Checked the list of crimes, nicking a loaf of bread at'Coop- is not on it.
It maybe is. If it involves trespassing, and you had at least one previous monetary sentence (maybe because you where involved in a stupid traffic accident) then it is.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:52
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,398
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Isn't this a followup guideline to the Ausschaffungsinitiative, given that the courts continually fails to apply it?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:56
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 21,367
Groaned at 454 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 24,329 Times in 11,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
It maybe is. If it involves trespassing, and you had at least one previous monetary sentence (maybe because you where involved in a stupid traffic accident) then it is.
Not sure Adrian meant he was going to blow the door up and maim or kill any member of staff here- or nick a loaf of bread from the shelf. Could you be a bit more precise Adrian
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 12.01.2016, 13:56
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 8,610
Groaned at 70 Times in 62 Posts
Thanked 12,557 Times in 5,664 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
Isn't this a followup guideline to the Ausschaffungsinitiative, given that the courts continually fails to apply it?
The first part is true. The second not. The Ausschafungsinitiative is not even law yet.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 12.01.2016, 14:01
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 8,610
Groaned at 70 Times in 62 Posts
Thanked 12,557 Times in 5,664 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Quote:
View Post
Not sure Adrian meant he was going to blow the door up and maim or kill any member of staff here- or nick a loaf of bread from the shelf. Could you be a bit more precise Adrian
There may be allready be a store or pub where Adrian has Hausverbot/ interdiction d'entrer/order to stay away. Makes things simpler.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12.01.2016, 19:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,144
Groaned at 86 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 1,190 Times in 693 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

I've heard the SVP has told the public that Ausschafungsinitiative wasn't implemented faithfully enough by the parliament and therefore they literally put what they meant in the initiative text now so that there is no room for the parliament to "misinterpret" it.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank yacek for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 12.01.2016, 19:45
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,846
Groaned at 270 Times in 236 Posts
Thanked 12,335 Times in 6,763 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Feb. 28th vote on enforced implementation of the deportation initiative

Weakness of the whole idea is that there is no way to force another country to accept deportees; one could understand their reluctance to accept convicted criminals.
Reluctance would be for exactly the same reasons that they would not be wanted to stay here?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
crime, foreigners, referendum, swiss, vote




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
28th of Feb voting- future of Switzerland and Europe Odile Swiss politics/news 4 11.01.2016 18:41
3 for 2 deal on everything at Marionnaud for the 27th and 28th of June only little_isabella Other/general 0 27.06.2014 16:20
Need transport Zurich - Flims laax on the 18th of Feb erikhi Transportation/driving 14 14.02.2014 07:19
Wanted - Temporary accommodation in the Zurich area starting 28th Feb 11 swiss_miss_81 Property wanted 2 21.02.2011 13:24
Air in Zurich on the 3rd of Feb. Anyone wants to go? Crazyph Entertainment & dining 5 05.02.2010 00:54


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0