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  #141  
Old 21.01.2016, 16:18
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Everyone is prejudiced. I hate doughnuts and won't eat them. Even if there's a new one I haven't tried yet, my small experience of them means I won't take the chance. Now, for the particular prejudice I was accused of, only my accuser can enlighten me.


Might be a case of cultural bias (I'm Canadian), but how can you possibly hate doughnuts? Even if you have a beard, Jelly filled doughnuts are hardly a justification to eliminate an entire food group!
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  #142  
Old 21.01.2016, 16:30
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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So give me those facts, please.
Am I missing something here?
If you can't find out any more info from the various news sources etc how do you expect people on here to have access to it? Where are they supposed to get the facts from?

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Might be a case of cultural bias (I'm Canadian), but how can you possibly hate doughnuts? Even if you have a beard, Jelly filled doughnuts are hardly a justification to eliminate an entire food group!
I hate doughnuts too and I definitely don't have a beard. Doughnuts are not an entire food group anyway, just part of one.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 21.01.2016 at 16:42. Reason: Merged posts
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  #143  
Old 21.01.2016, 16:44
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Am I missing something here?
If you can't find out any more info from the various news sources etc how do you expect people on here to have access to it? Where are they supposed to get the facts from?
Exactly indeed- they were the ones to ask me for facts, and insist I should get them- and as you say, they are not available. Question is 'why' are they not. Your guess is as good as mine.
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  #144  
Old 21.01.2016, 16:48
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Might be a case of cultural bias (I'm Canadian), but how can you possibly hate doughnuts? Even if you have a beard, Jelly filled doughnuts are hardly a justification to eliminate an entire food group!
I also hate all soft desserts - flan, jelly, trifle, tiramisu, creme brulee etc. Yuck.
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  #145  
Old 21.01.2016, 16:48
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Well I think security far outweighs political correctness. But this isn't about that, it's about security vs prejudice. Again, security must take precedence but we don't know that it has and we do know that there's prevalence of anti-muslim sentiment in the region.
Think for a moment about the number of Muslims in the region. Think for a moment about the number of Muslims that are being given safe harbor in the region. Think for a moment about the damage that is being caused to Muslim sentiment.

Now, is it really by those in the region who is causing that damage? And you don't see the acts of other Muslims having anything to do with that damage?
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  #146  
Old 21.01.2016, 16:56
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Exactly indeed- they were the ones to ask me for facts, and insist I should get them- and as you say, they are not available. Question is 'why' are they not. Your guess is as good as mine.
How can you know they're not available when you didn't even try.
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  #147  
Old 21.01.2016, 16:58
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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How kind, thanks. Said what I had to say. Anyone who pretends that there is not huge prejudice against young people of North African origin in France and here too- even those who do not have a chip on their shoulder, work hard, toe the line, etc- are either kidding themselves, blind or very prejudiced themselves- and certainly keen on keeping digging indeed.


I live VERY close to France and have worked with schools and other institutions in France for over 50 years- so I am quite 'au fait' with the issues.
LOL...in the Jura! Sure, you live close to french sheep or cows

Your comment is very focused on North African origin problems in France.

1) You fail to mention the same type of issues many other citizen have in France
Why not talking about the numerous "french white/not from North Africa"... who are also having employment issue?

2) Their "attitude" is part of the equation. Some have succeeded very well. Some other did not.

3) Funnily enough, everyone had access to free education up to university, free grants for studying, free help with housing, free health (or very cheap), free "Mimimum income for insertion", etc... I haven't seen much of that in other countries...

Sorry but you did not "say what you had to say" you said cr@p and commented on bad allegations.

A bit like they used to do in the old times "burn the witch, burn the witch".

Oh and by the way you were/are an external observant with qualifications and working on a very protected domain. I doubt you grew up among these wonderful victims, nor that you worked in Airports, nor that you actually experienced France as a poor job seeker yourself, nor that you raised yourself from zéro and climbed up the ladder in France coming from a poor background.

By the way not everything you said is wrong, but a lot of it is biased and often incomplete. Like I said, fight the discrimination but but it in its entirety instead of being singled focused like a horse.
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  #148  
Old 21.01.2016, 17:06
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Exactly indeed- they were the ones to ask me for facts, and insist I should get them- and as you say, they are not available. Question is 'why' are they not. Your guess is as good as mine.
An absence of evidence does not meant culpability.

The question is legitimate, but prevent making allegations prior to get all the facts and restrain from claiming discrimination when all the fact are not known.
In fact when some of the facts are also proving you wrong or incomplete.

Additionally, the guesses of people familiar with airport employment and security requirement* is certainly higher than your guess as a teacher...
*Like I have.

Maybe you should keep digging after all.
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  #149  
Old 21.01.2016, 18:47
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

How many ZEPS in large FRench towns have you attended or worked in/with?

You make a lot of assumptions for someone who says assumptions should not be made

If indeed it was a question of security, then the actions may well have been necessary. But there are ways and ways. Someone who has worked somewhere for many years without any trouble deserves better.

An absence of evidence does not mean that the situation was fairly handled, and lack of prejudice either.
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  #150  
Old 21.01.2016, 20:17
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Perhaps. Perhaps things have changed since you had first hand knowledge. Either way I don't know.

However, do read the VPOD PR. If not paying at all were illegal VPOD would certainly say something to that end. Lacking such a statement, payment by the hour is only conclusion I see. Either way they clearly were not terminated immediately.

But I DO know ... YES, things DID Change as some contracts on a w3eekly Basis WERE concluded in the 1970ies but on the insistence of BAZL were cjamged to a montly basis (BAZL NAMC ICAO protocol of about 2009 on thier CD -- NOT to be opened or stored, made it clear
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  #151  
Old 21.01.2016, 21:14
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Perhaps. Perhaps things have changed since you had first hand knowledge. Either way I don't know.

However, do read the VPOD PR. If not paying at all were illegal VPOD would certainly say something to that end. Lacking such a statement, payment by the hour is only conclusion I see. Either way they clearly were not terminated immediately.

the VPOD would violate basic conditions of BAZL / ICAO


you show notions and ideas out of ZGB & OR of 1970 --- I know those conditions as I in 68 69 for a while worked as a warehouse worker "" so än Dräck-Packer da-unne ""
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  #152  
Old 21.01.2016, 21:23
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

I've been in aviation for 30 years and have security clearance for most areas. These badges will not have been removed for nothing, full stop.
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  #153  
Old 21.01.2016, 21:42
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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Think for a moment about the number of Muslims in the region. Think for a moment about the number of Muslims that are being given safe harbor in the region. Think for a moment about the damage that is being caused to Muslim sentiment.

Now, is it really by those in the region who is causing that damage? And you don't see the acts of other Muslims having anything to do with that damage?

IF Arabs in the Region have to see that the Genevois do not treat them any better than the French they will not recommed Geneva to others, at least not the airport
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  #154  
Old 22.01.2016, 00:04
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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I've been in aviation for 30 years and have security clearance for most areas. These badges will not have been removed for nothing, full stop.
Then as said before, if intelligence made this necessary- it should have been done properly. Workers welcomed by Senior staff explaining that they have no choice, thanking workers for their services, especially those who had been in work to the satisfaction of the employers for many years- and compensation offered, and reinstatement after an enquiry, if at all possible, even in a different capacity outside the security zone. What harm would it have made to do this with some sensitivity and care. End of.

Last edited by Odile; 22.01.2016 at 00:21.
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  #155  
Old 22.01.2016, 00:20
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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I've been in aviation for 30 years and have security clearance for most areas. These badges will not have been removed for nothing, full stop.
So what happens when airport workers get made redundant or get a new job? They get to keep the passes? Or they suddenly become terrorists?
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  #156  
Old 22.01.2016, 01:02
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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I've been in aviation for 30 years and have security clearance for most areas. These badges will not have been removed for nothing, full stop.
Got to agree with you there.

My OH's last job in the U.K. was IT support for the baggage handling system at Heathrow. A St. Bernard carries less round it's neck! As with all the staff at LHR, he had to pass through security several times a day, and often got searched 3 or 4 times a day.

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...if at all possible, even in a different capacity outside the security zone. What harm would it have made to do this with some sensitivity and care. End of.
Sorry but I can't agree with you. An airport does not relieve staff of their duty for no good reason, largely because the recruitment process and security / police records checks take so long. You can't fill those roles in an instant, so there would have been something significant behind it. And if the real reason isn't in the public domain, there will be a damned good reason for that too. I only worked on the perimeter road of LHR, but security was tight at our place too.
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  #157  
Old 22.01.2016, 07:04
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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So what happens when airport workers get made redundant or get a new job? They get to keep the passes? Or they suddenly become terrorists?
A contractual requirement of an airport worker is that they have security clearance. If they lose that then they are in breach of their contract.

A condition of having an airside pass is that you have a legitimate reason for having one; having a job that requires you to be in a designated area. If you leave that job for whatever reason, then you no longer need a pass. A bit like any other company ID.

It's not complicated.
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Old 22.01.2016, 07:20
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

Passes are not the employees property. They are property of the airport and issued to an employee who is employed by an approved airport service provider.

No longer employed = no pass.

Quite simple.
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Old 22.01.2016, 08:15
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

our comment is very focused on North African origin problems in France.

Quote:
1) You fail to mention the same type of issues many other citizen have in France
Why not talking about the numerous "french white/not from North Africa"... who are also having employment issue?

2) Their "attitude" is part of the equation. Some have succeeded very well. Some other did not.

3) Funnily enough, everyone had access to free education up to university, free grants for studying, free help with housing, free health (or very cheap), free "Mimimum income for insertion", etc... I haven't seen much of that in other countries...
.
Me neither....but that is hardly surprising for a socialist country like France.
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Old 22.01.2016, 08:44
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Re: Geneva Airport fires Muslim workers

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I've been in aviation for 30 years and have security clearance for most areas. These badges will not have been removed for nothing, full stop.

could not agree more . ZRH APT authority KNEW that I was in prison in Rome for 2 weeks and sentenced to 6 months conditional but nobody during 40 years said a word. and again, it was only 30 persons


Just look at MLH-BSL and see all the chaps with Maghrebi-Arab looks and who talk in Moroccan-&Akgerian- &Tunbisian-Arabic mixed with French and German and Schwiizertüütsch and Elsässisch
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