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  #21  
Old 01.06.2008, 18:49
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Re: Don't forget to vote

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They will follow the national result. The No to the naturalisation initiative means that the constitution will not be changed according to the initiative text. Because of this, the two recent rulings of the Federal Court about naturalisation processes stay valid: They are based on the present constitution text.

The kind folks predominantly voted NO's.... Then we should receive the results with optimistic accent and let's hope we won't see anymore those disgusting posters with hands reaching for Ausweises
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  #22  
Old 01.06.2008, 18:58
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Naturalization referendum: Looking at the cantonal votes

Several months ago I posted a link to an article from Le Temps which analyzed the results of the last 73 referendums, using cluster analysis to group the cantons. At the most macro level they split them into two groups: the Latin cantons plus the big urban ones (the two Basels, Bern and Zürich) on the one hand, and the rest of the country on the other hand. I wanted to see how this was reflected in the vote on naturalizations, especially since it was clear that the francophone cantons were the most energetic rejecters.

I pasted the data from the official results, Votation no 532 -- Résultats finaux officiels provisoires into a spreadsheet and sorted by percent of No votes.

Sure enough, the six francophone cantons came out on top, followed by the four urban germanophone ones, with the Grisons somehow also up there. The Tessin did not vote with the other Latin cantons, coming in 15th.

The original article points out that on more elaborate analysis the Latin cantons split into the four Lemanic cantons (GE, VD, NE and JU) and what the call the Latin mountain cantons. Sure enough, while the Lemanic cantons all voted more than 80% no, VS and FR came in at 75% and 73% respectively.

You may well conclude that I have too much time on my hands
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  #23  
Old 01.06.2008, 18:59
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Re: Don't forget to vote

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Voting is compulsory in Canton Schaffhausen. Elsewhere participation rates can be as low as 30% (voter fatigue) unless there are emotional topics.
Participation in Schaffhausen was 63%. According to the German Wikipedia the fine for not voting is 3 Fr.

Interesting is that research has found that the non-voters trust the direct democracy system, too... A quarterly fourtysomething participation rate is better than 80% every four years, I guess.


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Frosting on the cake: in the Zürich municipal election the Green Ruth Genner beat the SVP Mauro Tuena by an impressive margin: 48,895 to 23,276 (La Verte Ruth Genner élue à la municipalité de Zurich). That's a bit better than 2:1!!
The Green predecessor to Genner has achieved many political merits but the efficiency and work morale has suffered in recent years in her department. Personally I had preferred if the Greens had to sweat a bit until the second election round and gave my vote to a newcomer, but that's communal politics. The SVP never had a chance on this department, though...
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  #24  
Old 01.06.2008, 19:04
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Re: Don't forget to vote

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To my knowledge no communes use electronic ballots and after some of the experiences that were made abroad, I'd prefer if it stays that way!
Yes electronic voting is the pits. Bev Harris has done some admirable work showing up those machines for what they are:- http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/1954.html Of course it is mostly America, but there were some cases of fraud in England also in recent years.

So, hopefully we never go the electronic route. That's the way to end democracy as we know it.
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  #25  
Old 01.06.2008, 19:08
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Re: Don't forget to vote

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Yes electronic voting is the pits. Bev Harris has done some admirable work showing up those machines for what they are:- http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/1954.html Of course it is mostly America, but there were some cases of fraud in England also in recent years.

So, hopefully we never go the electronic route. That's the way to end democracy as we know it.

I'd really like a trackable electronic voting system where the voter gets a receipt with a registration number. This goes especially for the 'states. As it is, no one really know what happens to their vote after they leave the voting booth.
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  #26  
Old 01.06.2008, 19:10
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Re: Don't forget to vote

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The Swiss should be proud at the result of today's voting. Unfortunately, the rest of the world will, once again, only hear about the "grabbing hands" poster, just as we saw last time around with the black sheep.

Thankfully, and to my surprise, Toronto's Globe and Mail picked up not only the run up to the story but is now covering the positive results. They still have some of the details wrong, but at least they are giving the positive news the same coverage as they did the "negative".
The BBC are already reporting the result o it doesn't quite look as bad as the sheep episode.
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  #27  
Old 01.06.2008, 19:18
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Re: Don't forget to vote

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So, hopefully we never go the electronic route. That's the way to end democracy as we know it.
Successful pilot tests of electronic voting in cantons Neuchatel and Zurich

Auuugh!
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  #28  
Old 01.06.2008, 19:28
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Re: Don't forget to vote

Well done Switzerland. How many times can SVP take this type of initiative to the poll?
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  #29  
Old 01.06.2008, 19:32
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

Yes there have been some electronic vote "successes" announced, but I am not a fan, having seen the state of the American system's abuses, aided by those machines, I would hate to see my vote misappropriated in such a way.

I mistrust any such device yet developed from the software side, from the hardware side and from the operator side.
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  #30  
Old 01.06.2008, 19:34
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

Voted against. Up yours, Silly Vicious Populists!
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  #31  
Old 01.06.2008, 19:34
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

I noticed that BBC UK had two major articles about the naturalization vote - making Switzerland look very bad / racist in each.

Now that the vote is over and the bill has been rejected (with a loud slap in the face for the SVP), BBC isn't saying a word about it. Not quite fair and balanced, if you ask me :-/
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  #32  
Old 01.06.2008, 19:40
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

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INow that the vote is over and the bill has been rejected (with a loud slap in the face for the SVP), BBC isn't saying a word about it. Not quite fair and balanced, if you ask me :-/
What about this: Swiss reject new citizenship rule?
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  #33  
Old 01.06.2008, 21:05
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

Well, same article, stressing how bad the situation is for foreigners here. Yes, the 12 years are too long - but come on BBC, give us a break here. A large majority of the Swiss today voted in favor of easing the process and making it more fair - I think that could be stressed a bit more rather then mentioning again how hard it is to become a citizen.
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  #34  
Old 01.06.2008, 21:14
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

I will have a word with my neighbours this week as I'm frankly rather miffed at them.

We dropped in a No, No, No in line with what the SVP did not want. I'm pleased the SVP exists - it saves a lot of research on how to vote
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  #35  
Old 01.06.2008, 21:22
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

I must say that I am very pleased with the results in this election! Great news that Zürich rejected Kongresszentrum and that they elected Genner instead of Tuena.

Apparently SVP has excluded the Graubünden fraction from the party. Seems there is a lot of problems within SVP and that can only be good news :-)
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  #36  
Old 01.06.2008, 21:31
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

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A large majority of the Swiss today voted in favor of easing the process and making it more fair
Wrong, they did not vote to "ease" the process, they voted to leave it the way it is. The SVP wanted to make it more difficult if not impossible for some groups to obtain Swiss citizenship with no chance to ever appeal a rejection.
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  #37  
Old 02.06.2008, 00:32
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

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Wrong, they did not vote to "ease" the process, they voted to leave it the way it is. The SVP wanted to make it more difficult if not impossible for some groups to obtain Swiss citizenship with no chance to ever appeal a rejection.
well, that depends on your point of view. Strictly speaking what you say is true. However, the vote was about overturning a decicion by the federal court to make naturalisations stricter again.
So you could say, that the swiss today gave their consent to the decision of the federal court to make it easier
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  #38  
Old 02.06.2008, 10:25
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Re: Don't forget to vote

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The kind folks predominantly voted NO's.... Then we should receive the results with optimistic accent and let's hope we won't see anymore those disgusting posters with hands reaching for Ausweises
The poster was self defeating. The SVP shot itself in the foot. Many citizens reject such confrontational (instead of consensual) aggressive and repulsive propaganda.

Let them put out more such posters and alienate the moderate voters!

The great aspect of this vote is the direct democratic aspect. We had it all out in the open. Heard all the arguments pro and con. And we voted decisively. If that does not convince Switzerland's critics, what will?

Another satisfying aspect. Despite unlimited propaganda funding from the SVP's billionaire mentor, the citizens were not misled and voted conscientiously.
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  #39  
Old 02.06.2008, 10:33
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

The poster wasn't lacking anything except for swastika to make it look like a racist and xenophobic party... Glad to see predominant NO's. At least people become sane enough to learn from mistakes of two consecutive World Wars.
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  #40  
Old 02.06.2008, 10:55
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Re: Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum)

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well, that depends on your point of view. Strictly speaking what you say is true. However, the vote was about overturning a decicion by the federal court to make naturalisations stricter again.
So you could say, that the swiss today gave their consent to the decision of the federal court to make it easier
This ballot result neither eases naturalization nor makes it more difficult. It confirms the rule of law, i.e. ensures the applicants' right of appeal. The courts shall ensure that naturalization decisions are not arbitrary and not discriminatory.

A possible consequence is that some communes decide on stringent objective testing. These might include written tests on language proficiency and knowledge of Swiss constitution, political processes, etc. Such tests would be non-discriminatory, albeit raising the bar.
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