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  #21  
Old 31.05.2016, 22:09
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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He left Zurich in December 2015
I'd like to hear your definition of 'left'
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  #22  
Old 31.05.2016, 22:10
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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Perhaps he had a big life insurance policy?
These guys are so loaded, I doubt it plays a role
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  #23  
Old 31.05.2016, 22:25
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

All those people mentioned have enough resources to go and live on a beach somewhere for the rest of their lives.

When you look at the despicable ways that major insurers here treat major claimants here then clearly their senior management has little interest in ethics considerations; not forgetting the rip-offs suffered by many ex-pats.

I have a friend who was awarded a substantial sum by a court following a road accident 20 years ago where he was a victim and the lawyers for the Swiss insurers involved (not Zürich) are still inventing reasons not to pay; looks like he will die from his injuries before any payment is made.

Maybe the "suiciders" got blackballed by their golf club
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Old 31.05.2016, 22:34
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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The CEO of of Swiss confectioner Ricola too.
And the Swiss CEO of Julius Bär in 2008.

Autopsy report not released.
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  #25  
Old 01.06.2016, 11:50
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

Roughly 1500 suicides annually in CH, 15-20% of which are said to be related to or caused by joblessness. Unfortunately that makes Senn's suicide much more 'daily business' rather than extraordinary in any way, assuming it's related to him having been fired last xmas.
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  #26  
Old 01.06.2016, 13:30
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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Do you think it's because working for Swiss companies is more stressful than average, or working in Switzerland (Swiss company or not) is more stressful or Swiss don't handle stress very well? oo - three options. I could create my first ever poll, but it seems they all need to have a cat or dog theme and I'm not sure how to wrangle that in there.
Speaking as a Swiss, I would say there's an element of perfectionism in Swiss culture that is not necessarily asked for in certain companies these days anymore. That is combined with a general slowness to adapt to rapidly-changing environments (especially as that change is often not sustainable, leading to more change and general chaos and instability). I honestly do believe that some of the traits that are inherent to Swiss culture are not necessarily sought after in today's world anymore. Of course that is speaking in extremely general terms.

Switzerland has a very high rate of suicides anyway, afaik one of the highest in the Western world.

And then of course aside from the Swiss-non-Swiss discussion, the corporate world is a world of its own and not everyone is cut out for it. Yes it's appealing (for many) to have the big career and the big money and the big whatever. But as everything in life, it comes at a price. Sometimes you don't realize that until very late, though.
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  #27  
Old 06.06.2016, 12:25
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

In April of last year or 2014, a book was published by some John Virapen, a former Eli Lilly executive.


He revealed that out of the ten people that had been paid to try the antidepressant Prozac's active ingredient, four committed suicide


The main reason for that seems like antidepressant cause other people to lose much importance in the eyes of those that


When you look at that Italian nurse arrested after a string of deaths in her unit, the German pilot that crashed his 150 passengers in the French Alps, or, when it comes to Switzerland, the so-called pyromane de Reconvilier, it appears each was running on antidepressants.


I'd be curious to know what drugs if any those execs whose suicide was blamed on personal worries might have been taking
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Old 06.06.2016, 13:48
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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In April of last year or 2014, a book was published by some John Virapen, a former Eli Lilly executive.

He revealed that out of the ten people that had been paid to try the antidepressant Prozac's active ingredient, four committed suicide
I assume you know that Virapen, a.k.a. John Rengen, has an axe to grind with Eli Lilly. He says he was fired because of his race.

Four out of ten cases do not say anything. 400 out of 1000 would. And people being paid to try an all-new medication are expected to be extremely serious cases, aren't they? What would their suicide rate be without medication? Did Virapen answer that question?

I prefer peer-reviewed material, which fairly univocally says that unmedicated depression patients commit suicide way more frequently than those on antidepressants.

Oh, and Virapen let himself be instrumentalized by an organization of the Scientology Church. Although he says he has no connection to them, he just isn't the guy I would ask to write stuff that can be taken seriously.

By the way, his first book was published in 2006 and the sequel (under his real name) in 2008.
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  #29  
Old 06.06.2016, 15:56
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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Speaking as a Swiss, I would say there's an element of perfectionism in Swiss culture that is not necessarily asked for in certain companies these days anymore. That is combined with a general slowness to adapt to rapidly-changing environments (especially as that change is often not sustainable, leading to more change and general chaos and instability). I honestly do believe that some of the traits that are inherent to Swiss culture are not necessarily sought after in today's world anymore. Of course that is speaking in extremely general terms.
Doesn't compute, especially taking into account the 30% population growth since 1970.


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  #30  
Old 06.06.2016, 16:02
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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Another potential option, although if ease of admitting and being diagnosed with stress leads to more suicides then it needs looking at.
Having a dog or cat would reduce stress.

(There you go, your animal option handed to you on a plate... no, not literally!)
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  #31  
Old 06.06.2016, 19:52
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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I prefer peer-reviewed material,

You mean : "industry-paid" ?

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which fairly univocally says that unmedicated depression patients commit suicide way more frequently than those on antidepressants.


That may be right. Unfortunately, each time you read in the press about some male or female nurse that was arrested after scores of deaths occurred at his or her unit - antidepressants are always de la partie. Same thing with most serial arsonists. Plane-crashers, we don't have statistics yet.

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Oh, and Virapen let himself be instrumentalized

And I guess that you'd like people on this forum to believe you're not ? When the 'peer-review' expression can be found in thousands posts on the web posted by paid-by-the-word trolls like you ? When not a single quality media reported about these inuendos you write, that are way too much into detail to come from a person of good faith ? When one knows that countless no-name PR boutiques or shell compagnies pay drug-bigots like you to do this robot-writing job ?

I guess you lost nobody among your relatives as a result of the grand drug scam - or you never thought about going to a stockmarket website and compare the capitalization of a Pfizer or a JNJ with a UBS or a Bank of America.
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  #32  
Old 06.06.2016, 20:12
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

Oh another big pharma rant. That's new

So your logic is that antidepressants lead to murder or murder-suicide in some shape or form because people lose any form of empathy, is that it? Proof please. Scientific one of course. And one that proves causality, not correlation.

As someone suffering from bouts of depression every few years or so who has once taken antidepressants (however shortly) I cannot even begin to describe how utterly ridiculous, insulting and ill-informed your comments are.
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  #33  
Old 06.06.2016, 20:26
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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So your logic is that antidepressants lead to murder or murder-suicide in some shape or form because people lose any form of empathy, is that it? Proof please. Scientific one of course. And one that proves causality, not correlation.
Created an account just to post that "thought". I'd ignore it, and the poster, and move on. Peer-reviewed by me
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  #34  
Old 06.06.2016, 21:16
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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You mean : "industry-paid" ?

That may be right. Unfortunately, each time you read in the press about some male or female nurse that was arrested after scores of deaths occurred at his or her unit - antidepressants are always de la partie. Same thing with most serial arsonists. Plane-crashers, we don't have statistics yet.

And I guess that you'd like people on this forum to believe you're not ? When the 'peer-review' expression can be found in thousands posts on the web posted by paid-by-the-word trolls like you ? When not a single quality media reported about these inuendos you write, that are way too much into detail to come from a person of good faith ? When one knows that countless no-name PR boutiques or shell compagnies pay drug-bigots like you to do this robot-writing job ?

I guess you lost nobody among your relatives as a result of the grand drug scam - or you never thought about going to a stockmarket website and compare the capitalization of a Pfizer or a JNJ with a UBS or a Bank of America.
Thanks. Great introduction. We are looking forward to more contributions of yours.

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  #35  
Old 06.06.2016, 21:22
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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Created an account just to post that "thought". I'd ignore it, and the poster, and move on. Peer-reviewed by me
You're right. I couldn't help myself there for a second though
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  #36  
Old 07.06.2016, 10:15
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

Recently read in the press :


The Germanwings copilot that crashed his 150 passengers into the French Alps had just been prescribed antidepressants before :
AP communiqué as relayed by local US TV


The nurse accused this Spring with killing 13 patients in Italy was running on antidepressants
( NY Daily News article )


The Stockport nurse convicted of killing scores of patients last year was running on antidepressants (Daily Mail)


When it comes to Switzerland, the firefighter convicted of countless arsons in Kanton Bern and dubbed 'pyromane de reconvilier' was also running on antidepressants - no url available, but coupling arsonist w/ antidepressants on google should still produce results.


Was the former Zurich CEO that committed suicide taking antidepressants too ? Remains open :

Bekannter: Senn war zuletzt depressiv


One thing for sure : 'depressive' is often used in the media as euphemism for 'was running on antidepressants' - just like 'psychiatric condition' is often erroneously written for 'heavy on psychiatric drugs'


Do not draw any conclusion from the above ! Do not believe those that tell you doctors prescribe you pills to just have a reason to have you come back !
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  #37  
Old 07.06.2016, 10:44
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

My impression is that you have more suicides in countries where the culture is such that you should keep your problems for yourself and where you are seen as a softie if you cannot cope. I believe that Mediterranean countries tend to have a lower suicide rate as people have in general stronger social networks. But it's just my feeling.

Last edited by belgo; 07.06.2016 at 10:45. Reason: correction
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  #38  
Old 07.06.2016, 10:49
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

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Do not draw any conclusion from the above ! Do not believe those that tell you doctors prescribe you pills to just have a reason to have you come back !
Correlation does not imply causation. I don't know prime, I guess some medicines are more efficient than the others. Someone close to me has battled depression for years but ultimately gave up the fight. Needless to say he has been treated with the newest meds and every treatment formula that doctors saw fit to try for him. None of them worked, probably some have worsen his condition or had side effects, but who could tell. One thing is certain - the depression hasn't been caused by the meds.
I think this illness is very unpredictable. I would agree with you on the fact that we need to know more about meds' long term effects though.
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  #39  
Old 07.06.2016, 11:30
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Re: Suicides at Zurich Insurance

The problem with looking at the group of people who might have been on antidepressants and committed suicide, or killed others is that you have only one group, and yes, an association or correlation.

What you don't have is enough information on these people - were they abusing alcohol or other drugs, and if they were prescribed an antidepressant, were they taking it as prescribed.

Need to know who is sucidal or violent absent treatment, and who is on treatment but not suicidal or violent.

Moreover, you don't have information on the people who might have committed suicide or other violent acts, but were preventented from doing so because they had some medical intervention.

Without all the pieces, you really cannot construct the chain of causation.

Mental illnesses are still poorly understood, difficult to treat and highly stigmatized. Plus there is a cultural component.

A lot of the data is anecdotal. For example, I have taken a certain antidepressant for a time, and it may have saved my life. Other medications have not worked so well. But was it just the med or was it med and therapy, or just being at a particular place in my life?

I am as distrustful of someone claiming that there is a pharmaceutical conspiracy as much as someone claiming meds to be a panacea. No easy answer.

Last edited by edot; 07.06.2016 at 11:48.
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