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  #141  
Old 18.01.2017, 12:06
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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But actually - even though Blick - most politicians don't let the SVP-filth influence them (did you actually read the article?).
Are you aware that you just insulted one third of the voting population?
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  #142  
Old 18.01.2017, 13:01
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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If one is a foreigner living in Switzerland, then acquisition of Swiss citizenship certainly is a promotion. In this context he is correct: all other nationalities are inferior, as none of them grants the privileges of full citizenship of the nation in which the applicant resides.

Unless you are male. Then is it a valid question wether the burden of the military service is worth the right to vote. As an EU national - which the vast majority of 3rd gen immigrants are - is this pretty much the only difference these days.
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  #143  
Old 18.01.2017, 15:58
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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For me, taking another nationality should actually mean something. It shouldn't be an automatic right after serving a certain amount of time, like getting a carriage clock on retirement day.
I seem to be in something of a minority with this point of view, though. Seems like most people see it just as a convenient piece of paper, a means to get a different coloured passport.
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I think this is becoming less and less true. The winds have changed and hard-line right wing views are becoming more accepted across Europe
How is the idea that a nationality and passport is something to be earned a 'hard-line right wing' view?
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  #144  
Old 18.01.2017, 16:08
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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How is the idea that a nationality and passport is something to be earned a 'hard-line right wing' view?
So if a Swiss marries a Thai girl did she earn the right to get an easier immigration process than somebody who was born here to parents who were born here? Yes, that's a pretty hard line view... and that's not even my opinion, but a Schwyzer SVP politician who spoke against his party lines and against the "no" recommendation of the initiative. He is conservative. The majority of the SVP is right wing populist.
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  #145  
Old 18.01.2017, 16:17
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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So if a Swiss marries a Thai girl did she earn the right to get an easier immigration process than somebody who was born here to parents who were born here? Yes, that's a pretty hard line view... and that's not even my opinion, but a Schwyzer SVP politician who spoke against his party lines and against the "no" recommendation of the initiative. He is conservative. The majority of the SVP is right wing populist.
Yup that may well be a hard-line view.
It's also a rather bizarre strawman argument as I never even mentioned the naturalization process for someone who marries a Swiss

What I implied was, in my opinion, the idea that a nationality and passport is something to be earned is not a hard-line right wing view.
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  #146  
Old 18.01.2017, 16:24
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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So if a Swiss marries a Thai girl did she earn the right to get an easier immigration process than somebody who was born here to parents who were born here? Yes, that's a pretty hard line view... and that's not even my opinion, but a Schwyzer SVP politician who spoke against his party lines and against the "no" recommendation of the initiative. He is conservative. The majority of the SVP is right wing populist.
Schwyzer SVP-Ständerat Alex Kuprecht also said he distances from the Burka poster, I referenced SRF in the source. It is also in Blick but to please our readers....

Source (in German language)
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  #147  
Old 18.01.2017, 16:28
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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It's also a rather bizarre strawman argument as I never even mentioned the naturalization process for someone who marries a Swiss
You are taking yourself too important. I simply mentioned todays Blick headline... and find myself surprised to completely agree with an SVP politician. He has a stringent view which does not correspond with mine but in itself at least makes sense. The Burka posters and the argument against the integration of third generation immigrants simply does not.
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  #148  
Old 18.01.2017, 16:33
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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The clue is in the phrase: natural born citizens.


If you're already in a club, what is the point of making you join again?
His question is why one should automatically be in the club with birth without really earning that right.
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  #149  
Old 18.01.2017, 16:42
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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BS. If they're too worried voting what they believe is correct and can argue for out of fear to support SVP we have to vote them out in the next elections!

But actually - even though Blick - most politicians don't let the SVP-filth influence them (did you actually read the article?).
So the only one who needs voting out next round is CVP-Mann Peter Hegglin. I'll remember him. Not for what he votes but why he changed his mind. Wimp.
Not sure I understand your reasoning?

Posters are posted to influence people. I and some other people were influenced by this poster.

So are you against the whole concept of advertising?
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  #150  
Old 18.01.2017, 17:07
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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You are taking yourself too important. I simply mentioned todays Blick headline
If you simply mentioned todays headline then why did you quote me in your comment?
You made a strawman argument to counter my point and I simply called you on it.

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I simply mentioned todays Blick headline... and find myself surprised to completely agree with an SVP politician. He has a stringent view which does not correspond with mine but in itself at least makes sense. The Burka posters and the argument against the integration of third generation immigrants simply does not.
I also happen to agree with him to an extent.
I don't believe that someone who has married a Swiss deserves an easier immigration process than someone who is born and bred here.

But this suggests that the immigration process for someone who marries a Swiss is too easy, not that the immigration process for thirdos is too hard.

So how does this then translate into 'let's make the citizenship easier for all third generation immigrants born in CH'?
Shouldn't it be 'let's make the citizenship process more stringent for immigrants who are married to a Swiss'?
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  #151  
Old 18.01.2017, 17:38
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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Though that only applies until the mid-twenties, early thirties if you include the Militärpflichtersatz.
Yep, the female part slightly longer.

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Are you aware that you just insulted one third of the voting population?
a) many SVP party-members do not agree with certain posters of SVP. b) the posters are not made up/put up by the pro-voters of SVP. c) if I have offended anybody who might think, those SVP posters are art - I don't care! They are filth, they are cheap propaganda and they pass on lies (like "unkontrolliert einbürgern" with an all covered woman - as if they wouldn't even have to show their face when handed over a passport. Which made me laugh - as a joke it was a good one, unfortunately it wasn't meant as a joke).

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Schwyzer SVP-Ständerat Alex Kuprecht also said he distances from the Burka poster, I referenced SRF in the source. It is also in Blick but to please our readers....

Source (in German language)
gseesch, Urs?

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Not sure I understand your reasoning?

Posters are posted to influence people. I and some other people were influenced by this poster.

So are you against the whole concept of advertising?
My reasoning was that a politician should not change his opinion by seeing an SVP poster and then claiming if s/he sticks to her/his opinion s/he would be supporting SVP. Reminds me a bit of Germany in the 30-ies only the other way around? Not speaking up out of fear of reputation/repercussion? Not a democratic stance.
You were influenced by that poster? NOT GOOD!
Nope, I'm not against advertising as it's a droit. But it should be informative. But even if it's not .... okay.
What I was refering to was politicians (!) claiming they can't vote what they think anymore due to the SVP posters. That is a) BS and b) they should definitely not be politicians.
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  #152  
Old 18.01.2017, 22:54
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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How is the idea that a nationality and passport is something to be earned a 'hard-line right wing' view?
The answer to your question is in the part of my post that you chose not to quote (why didn't you fully quote me? )

Here's the bit you omitted, that answers your question and has nothing to do with earning nationality:
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After the Durchsetzungsinitiative last Feb I applied for citizenship to make sure I could stay in the same country as my 2 young daughters. Far from a mere "convenience".
edit: And I see you don't like straw-men... well I never mentioned earning the passport, but I'm glad that happened now as Treverus raised another good point I hadn't even considered.
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  #153  
Old 18.01.2017, 23:14
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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So how does this then translate into 'let's make the citizenship easier for all third generation immigrants born in CH'?
Shouldn't it be 'let's make the citizenship process more stringent for immigrants who are married to a Swiss'?
How hard do you want the process be? Speaking as someone that the police got out of bed early one morning last May, to question me about Switzerland, test my language skills, and inspect my living arrangements, I'm very interested.
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  #154  
Old 19.01.2017, 00:02
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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How hard do you want the process be? Speaking as someone that the police got out of bed early one morning last May, to question me about Switzerland, test my language skills, and inspect my living arrangements, I'm very interested.
LOL
When it happened to me I simply told my Swiss wife that the police were there to arrest her and take her away.
By the time the police had explained everything all the other questions had evaporated.
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  #155  
Old 19.01.2017, 01:23
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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City of Zurich :
CHF 250 if bellow age of 25
CHF 1200 if above age of 25
CHF ??? if age is 25.

https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/...setzungen.html

Kanton of Zurich :
CHF 250 if bellow age of 25.
CHF 500 if above age of 25.
CHF ??? if age is 25.

Extra residency requirement for 16 to 25 years born or at least 5 educated in one of Switzerlands official language is: Last two years in Canton.
Otherwise it is last two years in commune.
http://www.gaz.zh.ch/internet/justiz...rdernisse.html
http://www.gaz.zh.ch/internet/justiz...gebuehren.html

Federal:
CHF 50 to 150

http://www.gaz.zh.ch/internet/justiz...gebuehren.html
Gemeinde Rate in Opfikon-Glattbrugg 2000
Uster 1500
Wallisellen 1000
YMMV
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  #156  
Old 19.01.2017, 01:30
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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LOL
When it happened to me I simply told my Swiss wife that the police were there to arrest her and take her away.
By the time the police had explained everything all the other questions had evaporated.
When they showed up for my husband I spontaniously greeted them with: "The Schweizermacher are here" (which refers to an old movie about this subject). The two guys lost all enthusiasm - didn't even want to check the apartment/living situation anymore when my husband offered.
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  #157  
Old 19.01.2017, 01:31
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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gseesch, Urs?
So you justify your slander by a single person who happens to share your opinion yet merely says "I'm not part of that". That's called argument from authority, should you not be familiar with the concept.

As for the other points: You didn't differentiate but that appears to be Ok as per your standards, presumably because it's against the SVP. Or perhaps because it comes from you. But it's good to see you backpedaling now.

How did you characterise the swastika poster used by the left not too long ago? Where did you speak out against that?

Last edited by Urs Max; 19.01.2017 at 01:42.
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  #158  
Old 19.01.2017, 01:39
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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...the police got out of bed early one morning..
As part of the naturalisation? You're kidding, right?
If not, what's the reason given?
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  #159  
Old 19.01.2017, 02:28
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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So you justify your slander by a single person who happens to share your opinion yet merely says "I'm not part of that". That's called argument from authority, should you not be familiar with the concept.

As for the other points: You didn't differentiate but that appears to be Ok as per your standards, presumably because it's against the SVP. Or perhaps because it comes from you. But it's good to see you backpedaling now.

How did you characterise the swastika poster used by the left not too long ago? Where did you speak out against that?
As often your post does not make sense to me. You just seem to nag at people sometimes.
I never back paddle (which I guess you meant), no idea where you got that impression but if you did and' it's good for you to see it' that's fine by me.

Don't know what you mean by "swastika poster by the left". This one? You call the BDP left??
As to posters: I don't usually comment them, I did in this thread because it was pointed out that some politicians said they were going to vote no but can't do that anymore due to these posters, as it will look like they're siding SVP. My point was not commenting the posters though but commenting on such wimpy politicians.
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  #160  
Old 19.01.2017, 02:31
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Re: Vote on allowing easier citizenship for third generation

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The clue is in the phrase: natural born citizens.


If you're already in a club, what is the point of making you join again?
Very simple - the same rule for everyone, if someone was born here, grew up here, make their life here, then they are a citizen. It does not matter if their family have been here for 50 years or 500 years.
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