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Old 22.04.2017, 18:36
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Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

Finally after some weeks of consultation the company I work for has decided to relocate its European headquarters and its R&D department; most of the IT personnel will be transferred to Spain (a country that it's lowering substantially its corporate tax base) and the rest of us will be moved to the beautiful city of Amsterdam (a huge leap forward from the ugly city of Geneva).
I really want to than you dear Swiss people for rejecting the corporate tax reform, since that was the cause that made my company decide to leave and it is not only me who's leaving, in the last year alone, the great majority of offices in my building have become vacant, so no more "these foreigner are taking all the jobs" except there won't be any new jobs created.
Today I went to the town hall in order to tell them of my departure and I was about to go, when I overheard the lady behind the counter talking with a colleague and, although my french is not perfect, I have managed to understand that with all the companies leaving the town there won't be anyone to pay them a salary (they half joked about it I suppose).
If the current trend continues (banking secrecy lost and now unfavorable taxes) I am sure the Swiss will go back milking cows on the mountains, as far i am concerned I am happy to leave Switzerland, one of the most unimpressive and depressing country on Earth
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Old 22.04.2017, 18:39
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

Bye bye
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Old 22.04.2017, 18:40
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

Have fun finding a place to live in Amsterdam. If you think Geneva is expensive, welcome to Amsterdam
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Old 22.04.2017, 18:51
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

With any luck, more people like you will leave, property prices will fall, and I'll get a good deal on a new house. But I doubt it will have that big an impact.
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Old 22.04.2017, 19:23
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

MRVL is leaving Etoy, but I see zero news about it in the press and that's not Geneva.
Any hint what your organization is? :-)
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Old 22.04.2017, 19:24
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

Gexit?
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Old 22.04.2017, 20:46
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

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MRVL is leaving Etoy, but I see zero news about it in the press and that's not Geneva.
Any hint what your organization is? :-)
Big US company his other thread said.

Before you depart you better make sure you've given proper notice on your rental accommodation or you could find yourself paying for unused months.

If, as said in his other thread, corporation tax here is only 4% then I can only guess that Spain and Amsterdam's are zero. My guess it's more likely FATCA and tightening up on permits in general that are causing US companies to leave.
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Old 22.04.2017, 21:03
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

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Big US company his other thread said.

Before you depart you better make sure you've given proper notice on your rental accommodation or you could find yourself paying for unused months.

If, as said in his other thread, corporation tax here is only 4% then I can only guess that Spain and Amsterdam's are zero. My guess it's more likely FATCA and tightening up on permits in general that are causing US companies to leave.
Permits, sure.....but FATCA sucks uniformly outside the US, doesn't it?
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Old 22.04.2017, 21:14
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

Yeah, but perhaps the Spanish and/or Dutch aren't being quite a strict as the Swiss banks. None of their banks got hauled over the coals by the US courts did they.
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Old 22.04.2017, 21:14
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

Good luck for the future.
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Old 22.04.2017, 21:14
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

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I really want to than you dear Swiss people for rejecting the corporate tax reform, since that was the cause that made my company decide to leave and it is not only me who's leaving, in the last year alone, the great majority of offices in my building have become vacant, so no more "these foreigner are taking all the jobs" except there won't be any new jobs created.
Well given that the corporate tax system is skewed in favour on multinationals in the first place and the fact that the Spanish CT rate is 25% versus as Swiss effective rate of between 11.5% and 21%, I'd say your not being the whole story if they are telling you the decision was based solely on CT.
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Old 22.04.2017, 21:15
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

And if Trump has his way you end up in North Dakota . Good Luck
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Old 22.04.2017, 21:44
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

I went to Amsterdam once and fell down a very narrow stairs in one of those tall, thin houses.. and I wasn't even drunk.

Great thread, this..
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Old 22.04.2017, 21:46
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

1 post in 2016, and 1 today to say good bye. You'll be sorely missed- toodlepip.
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Old 22.04.2017, 21:58
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

They all count.
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Old 22.04.2017, 22:02
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I donít think thatís the way things are going to work out. Everything here in Switzerland seems to be expensive just because wellÖitís Switzerland. Even the recent economic slowdown has not lowered prices much

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Well given that the corporate tax system is skewed in favour on multinationals in the first place and the fact that the Spanish CT rate is 25% versus as Swiss effective rate of between 11.5% and 21%, I'd say your not being the whole story if they are telling you the decision was based solely on CT.
Actually I did a bit of research and it seems that Spain offers a CT of 15% for newly formed companies. Nevertheless, as I have said, only the IT department will be transferred and you know how these things work (just like Amazon): you think youíre buying something in Spain, but it has been billed in the Netherlands. Still Spain has done a remarkable work in pulling itself out of the 2008 crisis and offer good business conditions (also their costs are lower which for IT I assume is a good thing since itís either there or in India)

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Big US company his other thread said.

Before you depart you better make sure you've given proper notice on your rental accommodation or you could find yourself paying for unused months.

If, as said in his other thread, corporation tax here is only 4% then I can only guess that Spain and Amsterdam's are zero. My guess it's more likely FATCA and tightening up on permits in general that are causing US companies to leave.
My only other thread was on the same topic and I didnít mention a CTR of 4% anywhere. Where did you get this number from?
Even I donít know the CT of my company!

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MRVL is leaving Etoy, but I see zero news about it in the press and that's not Geneva.
Any hint what your organization is? :-)
Sorry I donít think I am allowed to disclose that publicly. But I think I can say that we are a multinational group that has been acquired in the Ď90s by another multinational that has left our structure intact.
I know that our ďcontrollingĒ company has been shedding a lot of jobs from its EU headquarters in Zurich (planning to move to Luxembourg perhaps), thus I had long my suspicion of a possible relocation before the final announcement came.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 23.04.2017 at 17:42. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 22.04.2017, 22:15
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

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My only other thread was on the same topic and I didnít mention a CTR of 4% anywhere. Where did you get this number from?
Even I donít know the CT of my company!
blackcat88 said it in direct reply to your opening post (see post number 2 in that thread).

"As far as I understand, the current taxation system of Switzerland gives special tax holiday/ status to multinationals investing in Switzerland while local companies don't have access to this kind of tax benefits (e.g. a local bakery might pay tax at statutory rate of 20% while foreign invested company pays tax at 4%)."
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Old 22.04.2017, 22:23
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

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Actually I did a bit of research and it seems that Spain offers a CT of 15% for newly formed companies. Nevertheless, as I have said, only the IT department will be transferred and you know how these things work (just like Amazon): you think youíre buying something in Spain, but it has been billed in the Netherlands. Still Spain has done a remarkable work in pulling itself out of the 2008 crisis and offer good business conditions (also their costs are lower which for IT I assume is a good thing since itís either there or in India)
This is true. The problem that is experienced though is that truly talented IT people don't stay in Spain. They come to Switzerland for the money and lifestyle.
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Old 22.04.2017, 22:47
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

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blackcat88 said it in direct reply to your opening post (see post number 2 in that thread).

"As far as I understand, the current taxation system of Switzerland gives special tax holiday/ status to multinationals investing in Switzerland while local companies don't have access to this kind of tax benefits (e.g. a local bakery might pay tax at statutory rate of 20% while foreign invested company pays tax at 4%)."
Well, as far as I know, special corporation tax rates are set confidentially between the canton and the company (just like the lump sum taxation for rich foreigners) therefore they can vary. Moreover I have never heard of a 4% CT in Switzerland, maybe it is an "alternative fact" originated behind the propaganda machine of the socialist party. The lowest taxation possible is the holding regime (7.8%) and that is just for holding companies, most of the " foreign evil multinationals in Switzerland are mixed companies, their taxation currently stand in between (10-12%) and, this is the reason behind the departure of the company I work for, this tax regime will not last long and we will be subjected to the full force of the current 24% or more CT. Switzerland does not offer a Patent Box (shot down in the last reform) or any other tax reduction instrument, whereas the Netherlands offer a 5% tax rate for anything that constitute a trademark or a patent and the same goes for Ireland (6,25%), the UK (10%), Belgium, Luxembourg and so on.
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Old 22.04.2017, 23:58
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Re: Yesss, the Swiss did it!!!

So, in short, no great loss.

Tom
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